Can we have a discussion about children lying?

[FrannyandZooey]

What makes children lie?

Do they grow out of it? When, and how?

How do you distinguish between story-telling and lying?

Do you punish lying?

Do you lie to your own children?

sorry that was a bit vociferous! I was thinking of something closer to home than your dd pinching the chocolate, sorry

oh my DS 1, used to lie quite alot. he's 5.6. Normally it was to cover up. (who's pulled the wallpaper off the wall/scribbled on the wall/taken one of my things. It was getting very hard to believe/trust him. So enter 'my wee birdie'. he sees everything that goes on, keeps an eye out for me, just so i know the whole family are OK. He watches through school windows. He even turned up in France when we were on holiday so the boys could meet and feed him. yep, he's a sparrow. So now when i ask who has done xyz, and have a response of 'it was him', I remind the boys, I already know the truth because my wee birdie told me, but i would like to hear it from them. works most times for us. Some how it feels wrong now I'm thinking about it.

ikwym, frogs. One of mine has always been attracted to the dark side of the force also. At under 3 he nicked a purse from our local newsagent while my back was turned. When we got outside I saw him drop it on to the pavement and was just about to say "what on earth...?" when he turned to me with a beatific smile and said "Oh look Mummy. Look what I found on the pavement! You know what they say, don't you? Finders keepers, losers weepers! I'll keep it shall I?" He took quite a long time to crumble under my hard stare. He's continued to be talented in this area but he doesn't seem to be that evil really. More a mixture of not admitting to things he thinks we won't like and loving the attention of telling tall outlandish tales and trying to fool us (sometimes successfully). But if I say "Is that really the truth? Because I would prefer you to tell me the truth even if you think I won't like it." And he'll go "oh yeah, sorry" and tell me what really happened. I think it's really key to say "Even though i don't like what you did very much, I'm really pleased you told the truth" in those circumstances. My other kid can't lie to save his life. He always looks desperately worried and wriggles about uncomfortably. Sometimes that's the only way i know that his twin is pushing his luck in the truth department actually.

We sometimes say "Ouch! Your nose just hit me in the eye!" to really obvious but harmless lies.

I think it's normal - remember my much younger sister trying to convince us it was Daddy who had crayoned all over the wall in the hall.

Ds used to do the 'done a poo in my nappy' thing to avoid bedtime at around 2ish. Now sometimes denies doing something of which he knows I'll disapprove. Just started taking himself to the loo and I suspect he is fibbing about washing his hands - must go up and check until I'm sure but it's usually when tea is about to boil over or something.

I've just tried explaining that telling the truth is important because we won't believe him if he tells lies. Think I need to develop it, somehow, though. The 'are you telling me the truth or joke' thing might work if I can come up with another word rather than joke - don't want him to think jokes are bad, IYSWIM.

Edam - this sounds so sad but to check on children's hands after washing, I ask to sniff them this way I know they have at least rubbed some soap on there

sounds ridiculous but I was nanny to 4 children and could not be arsed to supervise 4 lots of handwashing several times a day. If they knew there might be a spot check they all seemed a lot more conscientious about it.

Good idea F&Z, will try that one, thanks!

Ah yes, I do the sniff test as well for handwashing and toothbrushing.

The thing is that my older two hate being caught out lying, so if they were lying about brushing their teeth and I asked to sniff, they would quickly say, "Oh whoops, I forgot, I'll just go and do it." Whereas dd2 would say, "Yes, I have brushed my teeth" even if her mouth was still covered in chocolate and the toothbrush was bone dry. And she'd carry on saying it again and again. And again. Completely unbothered that I know she's lying. Utterly, utterly maddening.

A great future in politics, perhaps?

Hi
I was reading the Child of our Time book recently as my 3yr old also lies quite a bit. The book said (as everyone here has said) tis normal and shows he understands that you can't read his thoughts. But lying can become excessive if he is anxious that you will be v cross when he has done something bad. You're supposed to reassure child that you won't be cross if he tells the truth.
Trouble is when I have tried this, 3yr old confesses, I am not cross, so 3yr old does bad thing again, confident that I won't be cross. Can't win.