All thoughts on mini-PPHs excessive and knackering clinginess gratefully received...

[PrincessPeaHead]

This may be long

MiniPPH (15 months) is clingy beyond belief, and it is getting to the stage where it is seriously hampering my ability to get anything done, my ability to do much with the other children, and my enjoyment of her. Which isn't good. And I don't understand why or what I can do about it (if anything), so I thought I'd tap into the combined wisdom of MNetters as I'm sure someone will be able to shine a light...

She has been pretty shy from a v early age, never really liked strangers, does that princess diana thing of no eye contact but peep under her eyelashes every so often to see if they are still there. Definition of strangers very wide and includes grandmothers if she hasn't seen them for a fortnight. Basically the people she feels comfortable with are those she sees every day - me, dh, children, nanny, cleaner and gardener. She loves all of those and is as demanding with them a she is with me.

At Xmas (11months) we had 20 people for lunch, all close family (grandparents, aunts uncles and cousins) and I spent most of it with her in a room by ourselves because she was so distraught at all of these people LOOKING at her and god forbid talking to her.

Now she is really only happy and content if one of the favoured adults is carrying her on a hip, or sitting right beside her as she plays. For short periods of time if she is in the middle of some interesting play she might allow you to get up and walk to the other side of the room to do something without screaming blue murder, but if you leave the room she goes mad.

She is a particular daddys girl and if I'm sitting beside her on the floor playing quietly and DH walks in, says something to me and goes away again she is INCONSOLABLE until he comes back and picks her up.

It has now got to the stage where if you are standing up with her on your hip and you dare to sit down (with her still on your lap), she goes bananas - screams, throws herself about, goes red in the face, tears - the MOMENT you stand up again it all switches off like a tap and she sits quietly with a slightly outraged expression on her face that you should have committed such a crime.

If you put her on the floor to do something (take a boiling saucepan off the floor, butter toast which you CAN'T do with a child on your hip) she screams, cries and often bangs her forehead on the ground. We have a stone floor in the kitchen and she often has big lumpy eggs on her head.

She is a big girl, can walk but gets hardly any practice because she insists on being carried. She weighs a ton and I now have sciatica quite badly, probably because my hip is thrown out all the time carrying her.

Basically I'm not enjoying her at this stage at all, it is very wearing on me and on the other three children who are effectively living with a tyrant ordering all the adults about despite their needs, and I really need to know
a) if there is anything I can do to manage her a bit to either make this stage more bearable or (holy grail) actually break this habit and/or
b) if it is just a stage, HOW LONG WILL IT LAST????

None of my others were like this at all and I don't think I've done anything differently with her. I don't leave babies to scream for anything - my modus operandi is to meet their needs and make them feel loved and secure but in my other three that actually made for happy little toddlers who were really independent and happy to do their own thing as long as they knew where you were (ie bird happy if you were in the same room albeit doing something dull like making lunch).

Please help!
Thanks for reading this far, my most epic post ever, in 4 years of mumsnetting

Sympathies , it is very draining. We could n't break the habit , just had to find very tolerant creches etc when needed although some refused. dd improved when she started at a very small playgroup at just 2. It took a while for her to gain confidence but at 3 she went in an Ikea play area with ds for a while. She still (at 5) is n't the most confident of children in a new setting but has lost the clinginess .

I second the teletubbies - dd3 loves it, and In the Night Garden too. (no other television programmes distract her from me!).

Have you had any domestic changes recently ?

I ask because my ds3 (also the 4th child) was like this, very intensely, albeit at 2.5 ish until recently. He's 3.4 now. He wasn't a shy baby or toddler though. Again, I found it incredibly wearing to be so tied to him all the time - no question of going to the other side of a room alone, without causing huge distress, never mind the loo etc., He wouldn't even let dh put him to bed fgs and he's normally a daddy's boy.

We put it down to our lovely mothers' help leaving - she'd been with us for years and met ds3 shortly after his birth !

I had to ride the storm I'm afraid but in your favour is, possibly, the fact that your dd is younger so quite possibly will whizz more quickly through whatever (to her mind) emotional issues she's having with you.

At home could you save your back a bit by heaving her into a sling ? The reverse psychology, also, of telling her to climb in and out of it with your help might even persuade her to do the opposite and give you some space.

But meanwhile huge sympathies. I felt a lot of guilt at not enjoying my little boy at all for months on end .

have no time to write anything of use

but dd1 was like this and it was a PITA - dd2 was nothing like it at all and dd3 is like it a bit - seems to HATE certain people and LoVE others

sorry but she can STILL be a bit clingy (is highly senstive - have you seen the Highly Sensitive Child website?}

the only way of making it better is to pander to it I truly believe this.

and make sure you get a break from it (nanny/nursery)

I hated it because I really wanted people to LIKE my child and noone did really as she was so anti-social She is now 7 and massively popular so there you go.

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This must be so upsetting and hard for you PPH, especially as your other children were not like this....I suppose I just thought it was the norm.
My ds REALLY improved after the age of 2 but up to then I found being his mum a bit of a trial at times!
I think your ds will get better, but in her own time...
Perhaps you will look back on this time fondly when she is a teenager and slamming the door in your face and telling you she hates you??!

Enid, my dd is just the same - so unlikeable! I'm glad yours got better - I had visions of mine being like this until she leaves home!

I can only tell you what I would do; I did have a very clingy child but not to the extent you have here...I would pander to it as much as possible. I do believe children this young are telling you what they need so I wouldn't feel bad about letting her be with you or be carried as far as you can; however, equally you mustn't feel bad about putting her down when you need to.

If it were me I would use a playpen as a kind of nicely meant 'threat'; talk to her, don't just put her down, say something like "I've got to put you down to take the hot pan off, not safe, it's hot isn't it, you can stay right with me there" blah blah...when the inevitable screaming happens, I would look her in the eye and say "if you are going to make a fuss, you will have to go in the playpen" and then put her in there when she does make a further fuss....hopefully her anger will be directed at the playpen so that she will calm down when you pick her up again....and kids DO learn...if she really hates the playpen, she can stay out of it by NOT making a fuss.....it might work??

But it's definitely what I would do here.

And I do think it's a case of simply riding out the shyness thing and her difficulty with accepting people she doesn't see alot; that is definitely a phase and she will get better at dealing with it as she gets older.

All I can suggest is keep some large cushions handy to slip under her head at the appropriate time (I did this with my son when he went through a head banging stage which turned out to be frustration at not being able to tell us what he wanted - this was years before baby signing came out). Hope this stage doesn't last long with your daughter - I found the head banging very upsetting.

Is she the same with your nanny?

pph...poor poor you!

ok, fwiw (not much) i would advocate stopping letting her tyrannise you. it sounds like because she bangs her head and has total meltdown, she gets what she wants.

separation anxiety is massive at this age, but you are not talking about leaving her with strangers or even leaving the room, you're talking about never being able to be out of body contact with her and i think that has to be addressed for your hip and sanity's sake.

resolve to crack it (not on a day when you are feeling awful, gird yourself for 2 or 3 days of doom).

what mini-pph needs is to find out that the world is in fact safe when she is not on your hip....

so. no more picking up. explain to her that your hip hurts and that mummy is here, but can't hold you all the time. and then stop. and do it in carpeted rooms so that headbanging not too injurious. resolve to try and crack it over two days and that you will not allow her the experience that her demands will be met if she headbangs or screams.

I think once you have got through a day or so of awfulness, mini-pph will realise that life does not in fact end if she is not on your lap or your hip and that being in the same room as you but not on you is in fact quite enjoyable.

that's what i would do anyway, but whatever you decide, good luck!

thanks so much for all your suggestions and sympathy! a few people asked what she is like with the nanny - exactly the same. except I suppose the nanny is even less likely to let her sit on the floor screeching and so does lug her around much of the time as well (and she is v petite and also has been getting sciatica).

this nannyhas been with us for 4.5 years, so dd2 has always known her - but she is moving on in a few weeks and there will be a new nanny starting. so I'm anticipating spending a good week or so very close to dd2 in order to get her familiarised with the new nanny etc etc - I suppose she'll get a bit worse then.

really interesting those of you who have/had the same thing - pollyanna it is fascinating that she is OK at nursery! and nice to hear from everyone that they do grow out of it

strangely enough after posting this, and discussing with dh, printing off the thread, reading it at lunch etc\ etc she has been MUCH better this afternoon and has been quite happy playing with her toys, her siblings and crawling up and down the stairs -as long as she knows where I am and can hear me. WHich is fine. Don't know why she isn't like this more often though!

anyway thank you very much for all your thoughts - I'm going to be a bit tougher about not picking her up so often, but ensure that I'm reassuring her that I'm near her at the same time so as not to knock her confidence (and will ask the nanny to be the same). And try some of those other tactics you all suggest (although I'm disappointed nobody has suggested Gin )

oh and soph ds2 was never like this but he did like being carried around quite a bit - once I was pg with dd2 I really had to stop carrying him and do a lot more encouraging of him to walk up the stairs etc and he wasn't much older then than dd2 is now.
I remember thinking at the time how quickly he'd accepted it and walked everywhere by himself...

I think you have answered your own question PPH, have another baby!

She'll have to stop being clingy then

ha ha
not in a billion
and dh has been snipped

HURRAH!

Don't Hurrah me, 5 is much more of a round number.

may i suggest.....Gin?

make sure you rim the glass with lemon and none of your old slimline nonsense....schweppes out of the can, full fat version please.

tanquaray as a preference but bombay sapphire if you really must (can't stand the stuff myself).

or for full cure, a couple of martinis with olives...always makes me feel better!

lots of love to you pph, really hope it all gets better...

Gin or another baby?

Come on PPH deal or no deal?

WB Gin wins hands down
And Sophs description is SO delicious sounding I think I may have to go and have one RIGHT NOW

aviatrix - yes most of it is that is just isn't fair on eg the 3 yr old if I'm lugging dd2 around everywhere - there are so many things you CAN'T do if you are either lugging a huge 1 year old around or alternatively if you have one clinging onto your leg and screaming loudly
she also pushes the others off my lap if they are sitting there having a cuddle or a book read to them - the oldr ones think it is funny but ds2 told me today he didn't love dd2 "yet". He said he thought he might when she was bigger but at the moment she was just too noisy

Gin for her might work.

Hi. My ds1 was like this and is still quite sensitive at 4yo. I found cuddling him while sitting on the floor eventually stopped me having to carry him all the time. He was worse when ill or teething. Is that possible for your lo? I'm easy going re drugs so I would occasionally give him calpol to see if it made a difference. Sometimes it did. Was he ill or did he just like calpol? Who knows?

I used to put him down playing and deliberately walk out of the door for literally 10 seconds before coming back. Then a little longer next time etc etc as a sort of withdrawl method. Can't say it helped particularly but it may for you.

Then he just suddenly grew out of it. My ds2 does this only when ill and calpol sorts it out for the standard 4hours and then it switches on again. Then he gets better and hardly wants to know me and I feel all rejected. You can't win can you!

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I dont think this is a problem that you can 'crack'

not yet anyway - when they are older it can be done with reasoning/bribery

I think it is somethign you have to learn to live with and try and get breaks whenever possible.

Although you say that she can walk, she clearly doesn't enjoy it very much (as she demands adults walk 'for' her). Hopefully once she becomes more physically able she will enjoy her independence more? Dd2 could walk at 16 months but never really took off until 18 months and then was much less demanding about being carried.

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