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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

i need to know how to go back on what i told ds without him thinking he has won

52 replies

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:10

ds is 6. he has been a nightmare in the mornings since xmas. dh started getting up and giving him his breakfast partly cos i was v pg and tired, partly because he believes that his way of disciplining kids is better than mine (he is very strict, i am less so but dont take much nonsense).

ds has stopped eating breakfast. we have told him that when he eats what he is given i will start making it again and he can choose what he wants. he says he wont do it and we will forget eventually. if i have ever changed my mind about a punishment he throws it back in my face 'see, i said i would win'

i am sick of the fighting in the morning. i hate him going to school hungry (he admits he is) and after dh goes to work i have to put up with him being horrible then drag him to school. it is making life miserable as he is punished for bad morning behaviour when he gets home. we have tried the carrot, it doesnt not work. it was dhs idea to do things this way. i backed him up as he was determined my softer approach would not work, but things are now worse than they have ever been. i think we have waited long wnough and can now say his way has failed

easter hols seem a good time for a fresh start. but i dont want him to see it as a victory. any suggestions are appreciated cos i am stuck

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damewashalot · 30/03/2007 14:01

oh mytwopenceworth posted again after i read the thread, her other idea about getting your own breakfast is a good one too, when my 5yr old was refusing dinners one night we just didn't bring him any to the table and sat down to eat, he was very put out and then ate nvery nicely when he got some

mytwopenceworth you are obviously very clever and have good ideas

mrsjohnsim · 30/03/2007 14:03

i wonder if you could sit down with hima ns say "right, we are all in a stupid place right now .You go to school hun gry and that must feel bad. Dad is sad becuase he would liek to enjoy his time with you in the morning. How do ylu think we can sort this out?"
see if HE can come up with a resoltion that isn't silly, it may be a way of giving him some power, but also a lesson in accepting that one has to take other peoples' feelings into consideration?

maybe??

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 14:17

if he thinks he has won he will do exactly as he pleases for god knows how long because as he sees it we do not stick to our word. im not just worrying without reason, it has happened before over more minor issues. it started off as a minor problem between dh and ds, it is now a whole family issue and ds will see it as a big deal. if he didnt gloat so much it wouldnt be such a problem to just give in. i have to say i do partly admire the fact that he sticks to his guns so well (not to him, obv)

all i can think of is getting him to suggest something, which possibly isnt great as he is only 6. maybe if i get his big brother involved it may help, he can be quite sensible sometimes (for an 8yo).

we cant really let him get his own breakfast in the morning as the kitchen is too small for more than one person really. i dont want to get him up earlier as he isnt a morning person and will be grumpier than ever (this just sounds like im making excuses but if i wasnt completely lost i wouldnt be posting!). maybe he cold help with fetching and carrying to and from the table, that could work as a compromise.

thanks for all the posts btw, it is helpful to talk it through before i tackle dh and ds

OP posts:

fluffyanimal · 30/03/2007 14:19

Goblin, you said somewhere that you think this is all about new baby on the way, new school, etc and wanting your attention. I think you need to stand your ground on DH making breakfast in the mornings if you are feeling too rough, but can you make a special time to spend alone with your ds to make him feel more secure, and offer him this as a reward? I'd also get your DH to give him a choice for breakfast, as it sounds like it's not so much the food, as who he spends time with. So "if you choose what you like and eat nicely for Dad in the morning, you and I can do X special together later..." Would that work as a compromise?

Earlybird · 30/03/2007 14:21

You need to talk to your ds about why he is acting this way. Snuggle down on the sofa with him when you won't be interrupted, and talk. Ask him (in a non accusatory way) why he is refusing to eat. Explain to him why your dh started making breakfast - that you were so tired/needed help, etc. Try to put yourself in his shoes, and try to get him to put himself in your shoes - sympathy and empathy sort of thing. Talk to him about the new school/new baby and say that you understand it's alot of change, and that it must be hard. Try to find out if he's feeling upset/worried or even angry on some level. Talk to him instead of at him.

TBH, it sounds to me like a power struggle that is about much more than breakfast. Refusing breakfast could be the actions of a little boy who wants reassurance and attention (even negative attention)when so much has been happening. It could be asserting independence/rebellion. It could be a little boy struggling to cope with all the change, and one of the only areas of his life where he feels 'in charge' or gets to do what 'he wants' is to do with what/how/when he eats. He could simply be missing you, and need/want more of your time/attention/support as he adjusts to his different life. It could be so many things.

I'd try to get at what is behind it all that is manifesting itself in the breakfast standoff. Then, try to be your son's support/advocate rather than his adversary.

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 14:24

baby arrived 5 weeks ago so am now back on my feet and able to do stuff, which is why i can now stop what is happening. we do spend time together after school so i dont really have that to bargain with! dh refuses to offer anything else, he cant see he is being unreasonable so i will have to get involved if anything is going to change

OP posts:

ENTP · 30/03/2007 14:24

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tweetyfish · 30/03/2007 14:25

I absolutely hate battles of will, I sometimes wish that children could understand that we do what we do because its the best for them, although i doubt that's possible...

Just a quick thought I had (although I do like mtpw's advice about getting your own and not mentioning it)... Does his school have a breakfast club thing that you could send him to? that way he'd be eating but it wouldn't be part of the battle of wills... Obviously tricky if you have more than one at the school, but as I said, just a thought

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 14:26

earlybird, your second paragraph is exactly what i think is going on and thats why i dont like the approach of just making him obey orders. i think he needs a bit more understanding as he is very sensitive. he used to be a real mummys boy and that has stopped since this all started, i want things to go back to how they were.

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Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 14:32

entp - it has been a battle, and tbh i dont think it was wrong to say dh would be making breakfast as i wasnt able to do it. there is a lot of things now which i consider wrong, but the basic issue is who makes the breakfast. i dont want ds to think he was right all along as i think he needs to understand that i am not invincible, i was ill and needed help. i think he should go along with that to an extent. it was only after he refused to eat if dh got up that things got silly and dh got frustrated. i dont have a problem admitting if i am wrong and i have apologised for stuff in the past, but im not sure thats really the situation here

breakfast club is a possibility, hadnt thought of that

OP posts:

ENTP · 30/03/2007 14:34

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Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 14:36

the situation did start because i couldnt do stuff, so it wasnt for his benefit it was for mine. it is now in everyones interests to sort it out

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ENTP · 30/03/2007 14:37

This reply has been deleted

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ENTP · 30/03/2007 14:40

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mrsjohnsim · 30/03/2007 14:43

maybe have a family meeting about lots of stuff- maybe promise the older children some treats you were going to do anyway in reward for certain things.
let each person speak...one of those sort your family progs had something similar.
\the children can talk about what upsets them, makes them happy at home just now, and you can talk about the same....and then it can lead inot talks about changing lots of things round now baby has come...
it will be more of a sneaky way of sorting this aprticular problem out...but may open the door to prevent similar things in the future.

It sounds like your dh needs to think a bit deeper about how to get the kids to do stuff too.
I am not having a go- my dh falls completely into this sometimes too- and he gets into the conevrsation with a 3.5yr old "you haven't eatne enough lunch so you can't watch TV, eat more lunch now, ds1"
To which the answer comes back "NO" and then "can i watch telly" pretty much straigth after, each time in a more upset and whiney way.....
i am not sure if it is better or wrose thought, when my dh gives in and shouts sarcastically at ds1 so ds1 doesn't eat the food and gets to watch the tv and dh feels a failure.

don't get me wrong, dh is normally great with the kids and most times this doesn't happen, but ever now and then we find ourselves in this horrible place.

good luck

ScottishThistle · 30/03/2007 15:01

I am I right in thinking that you think your child will think he's won simply because Mummy does breakfast instead of Daddy?

Surely this has escalated into something much bigger than need be.

I agree with ENTP that sometimes it;'s neccesary to admit you as a Parent are not always right...Talk to him & explain that he was wrong for refusing to eat breakfast for Daddy but that Daddy was also wrong in not allowing him at least a choice of 2 different breakfasts.

Your DP has to rise above this & be the adult here!

Mumpbump · 30/03/2007 15:08

I have to say that I think Scottishthistle's approach sounds sensible. Then no-one has "lost" or "won".

I try to avoid giving ultimatums and to give alternatives, rather than saying "you must do this". In doing so, I hope that I will avoid stand-off situations. Works with my dsc, but they are only there at weekends. Remains to be seen whether I will be able to remain so calm with ds!!

RantInEminor · 30/03/2007 15:16

" I sometimes wish that children could understand that we do what we do because its the best for them, although i doubt that's possible... "

They do understand if you explain clearly to them why you do the things you do rather than expect them to follow blunt orders. If somebody commanded me to do something without explaining why I would be extremely knarked - same applies to kids of any age IMO.

RTKangaMummy · 30/03/2007 15:17

IMHO your DS is jealous and wants your attention BUT I also think that your DH should keep doing the breakfasts

Cos I understand what you mean about DS thinking he has "won"

I am curious what this breakfast is though. Is it a cooked breakfast rather than cereal?

What about if you spent time with DS in the morning WHILE daddy made the breakfast

Could you be spending time with DS while he gets dressed then DADDY will be busy making breakfast BUT DS gets your positive attention

Or him help you get yourself dressed like find YOUR socks or shoes or ask him which clothes HE thinks YOU should wear for the day

ie it will give him some control over something in the mornings NOT connected to food

chancery · 30/03/2007 15:20

i'm not sure why he can't make his own breakfast cereal?

i think your dh and your son need to go to the supermarket specifically to talk about cereal.

a cereal negotiation.

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 21:06

its just hot weetabix which was all he would eat for months, and yes, it has developed into something bigger than it should be. it was just a case of eat your breakfast ds, no i will only eat it if mum makes it, well mum will make it tomorrow if you eat it now, well i wont eat it unless she makes it... then it gets out of proportion because dh does not like being ordered about by a 6 year old and neither of them stopped the conversation before it got to that point. they do have a really good relationship and do lots of stuff together, i think it has just been recently while i have been rubbish that things have been stressful for all of us

its not only the breakfast thing, he is a really stubborn and infuriating child when he wants to be (i did say he reminds me of me), he will actually suggest punishments and push things and i react, then i want to go back on them but he wont let you do it without telling you he has got the better of you.

spending time in the morning isnt really possible as there is too much to do on a time limit and he does drag his feet a lot, especially if he gets up earlier than usual. i understand what everyone means about spending special time with him and i do try to do that whenever i can, usually some time every day on our own

thanks for all the replies, i am off to bed now as i have a rarely sleeping 5 week old and have to sleep when he does. any other comments welcome, i will check back tomorrow

OP posts:

Daisybump · 30/03/2007 21:24

Haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed bits of it, but whenever our DS has eating issues, we try to get him involved in the process. Breakfast is always a bit of a nightmare as his blood sugar is low and he is really stroppy, but i make sure thee are a selection of healthy cereals...the most unhealthy thing we have is Cheerios and let him choose what he wants. He then gets to pour it himself and put the milk in and if things are particulary bad, I've been known to serve him toast in bed as he thinks that's such a grown up treat and wolfs it down.

I suppose the thing is to co-erce him, but let him think its his idea....and oif your DH isn't compromising...get him to read this thread.

and.... liking the breakfast club idea a lot...

colditz · 30/03/2007 21:35

what an awful way to start the day for everyone.

sunnysideup · 30/03/2007 21:59

It's got to be a serious talk with your dh first about 'melding' your approaches a bit. He will have to admit that his way has not worked.

Teaching your son to do what he's told, just because he's told to do it, is not teaching him any sort of valuable life skill or forming his personality in any way that will benefit his future independent life. Is that really what your dh wants, to raise someone who doesn't question and who blindly obeys others?

I think it may be an over authoritative approach that makes your ds so conscious and victorious when he feels your dh has backed down on something....your ds perhaps feels powerless and does this to claw back a feeling of control.....he wouldn't need to do it otherwise?

certainly never punish him for bad behaviour in the morning, when he gets in from school - the poor lad! He is only six, lighten up! I don't know where to start with specifics, only that you're right, fresh start from tomorrow if you can....I would lie tbh in order to avoid the 'you've backed down' argument; make dh leave for work really early, tell ds that his dad's hours of work have been changed and he can't be in for breakfast any more! Then it's out of your dh's control as far as your ds is concerned. Your dh could do this for a week or two just to get you out of this situation that's developed. i think breakfast club is an idea, too, but tbh with a child so young who obviously wants his mums' attention, then I wuold think keep him at home for breakfast if you can.

Then I'd try to agree with your dh a more 'team' approach to life with your ds. The authoritative approach will obviously never work with a boy like your ds. good luck.

grannycracksopenabottleofwine · 30/03/2007 22:10

sorry, reading through the thread again i realise i may ahve been a little harsh before good luck

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