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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

i need to know how to go back on what i told ds without him thinking he has won

52 replies

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:10

ds is 6. he has been a nightmare in the mornings since xmas. dh started getting up and giving him his breakfast partly cos i was v pg and tired, partly because he believes that his way of disciplining kids is better than mine (he is very strict, i am less so but dont take much nonsense).

ds has stopped eating breakfast. we have told him that when he eats what he is given i will start making it again and he can choose what he wants. he says he wont do it and we will forget eventually. if i have ever changed my mind about a punishment he throws it back in my face 'see, i said i would win'

i am sick of the fighting in the morning. i hate him going to school hungry (he admits he is) and after dh goes to work i have to put up with him being horrible then drag him to school. it is making life miserable as he is punished for bad morning behaviour when he gets home. we have tried the carrot, it doesnt not work. it was dhs idea to do things this way. i backed him up as he was determined my softer approach would not work, but things are now worse than they have ever been. i think we have waited long wnough and can now say his way has failed

easter hols seem a good time for a fresh start. but i dont want him to see it as a victory. any suggestions are appreciated cos i am stuck

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Tinkerdumpsandruns · 30/03/2007 13:14

Oh, I get stuck in cycles like this as well. Why won't he eat his breakfast? Would he eat it if it was something else? Or is it not the breakfast itslef that is the problem? Would he start being difficult about something else then?

If it is just the breakfast itself, I'd offer a range of healthyish choices for him to choose from - you both appear to win?

Kelly1978 · 30/03/2007 13:14

what he he do if you didn't let him go to school until he has eaten? dd loathes being late to school, she is same age.

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:20

dh has specified it has to be what he gives him. so it would be seen as winning and i would rather do things completely differently rather than partly, it wont make much difference. i think dh is being awkward aswell, he says kids have to do as they are told, when they are told so he wont back down an inch. i dont know if he would find some other problem if we sorted this, but its worth a try!

if i said he had to eat before we set off he would not eat, he would love to not go to school! i also have 2 other ds who would be late to school and playgroup so not possible

OP posts:

FloatingNeedsAnEasterName · 30/03/2007 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tinkerdumpsandruns · 30/03/2007 13:25

Hmm, I think you need to discuss with your husband. Difficult when you disagree on discipline sytles. But there has to be some negotiation because this is getting no-one anywhere

grannycracksopenabottleofwine · 30/03/2007 13:26

sorry if i offend but your dh sounds like he'a a bully and you're going along with it

FloatingNeedsAnEasterName · 30/03/2007 13:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mytwopenceworth · 30/03/2007 13:28

why dont you lay out a breakfast table instead? you can have a combination of anything really, toast rack and jams, cereals and milk, croissants, fruit, sausage, juice etc and have everyone serve themselves.

this way you are giving him choices but not giving in, you are providing a different breakfasting experience.

i lay out breakfast like this at times, it is really nice.

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:28

he does like it, he always used to ask for the same. he just wants me to make it. i think problems are to do with new baby, new school, lots of upheaval in life recently and i was so shattered i just couldnt cope in mornings. now i can, but we are in this ridiculous stand off which is worse than original problems! i just want it over but neither dh nor ds will give in and i am worried about looking weak and his behaviour getting worse because of that. i need to think of a compromise that ds will go for, offering different stuff wont be enough to make him eat

OP posts:

FloatingNeedsAnEasterName · 30/03/2007 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mytwopenceworth · 30/03/2007 13:32

if the food is there and you know he likes it but he is refusing in order to score points off you, then my advice would be to keep placing it in front of him, if he doesn't eat it then just remove it. don't enter into any conversation and if he tries, just say "if you don't want to eat, that's fine, it's you that goes hungry not me" and tuck into your own food. don't let him see that you are bothered. if he is so stubborn that he will go hungry day after day in order to 'win' then it is 100 times more important that he doesn't, iyswim.

Soapbox · 30/03/2007 13:35

Well I think you have to tackle DH first and tell him that since his approach isn;t working you are now going to try yours. He does sound incredibly bullying and I wouldn;t stand for his approach in the first place, but that is for you to decide really.

I think it is much more important to teach a child how to negotiate rather than just to obey instructions. Who knows if someone had adopted that approach with your DH as a child perhaps he would have better negotiation skills as an adult and be able to be more flexible.

Your DS sounds like he is screaming out for your attention - swap things over so that DH looks after the baby and younger children in the morning while you make breakfast and spend time with your DS1.

Punishing after school for not eating breakfast is unforgivable imo. It must make the atmosphere constantly like a battlefield. I really, really think you must sort out your DH - he's the problem here not your DS.

I'm rushing to type and get back to work, so this probably comes across as quite harsh/stroppy, but I do feel very sorry for this as you are caught up in your DH's unreasonable behaviour

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:36

im not punishing him for not eating, its because he is really naughty, mainly cos he is hungry and grumpy and has not got his own way. i am starting worry that he feels bullied, things were not as bad in the beginning but ds has pushed things, dh has pushed back and it is getting stupid. he is not a daft child, he has an amazing memory and remembers many times when i have backed down, this is why i dont want to just back down again.

it is a lovely way to do things m2pw, its more how i used to arrange things and i would like to go back to it. however it is backing down. we do just remove it (infact we no longer offer it unless he says he will eat it as we threw it away every day). he says he can wait til we forget, but i dont want to carry on like this

the reason there was no midway was because i was in bed so dh did it all his own way.

OP posts:

mrsflowerpot · 30/03/2007 13:39

Is it just school mornings that are the problem? Can you say 'on school mornings you do as you're told, because we don't have time for anything else', but then relax it at weekends - so Saturday and Sunday he chooses?

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:41

i agree about the negotiating rather than just blindly obeying instructions. its just such a stupid issue that i cant think how to negotiate - if he was doing something naughty then i would make him do something to make up for it,but not eatingisnt naughty and the naughtiness we do have is stemming from not eating. the only way out of this is to back down which will cause other problems as ds will see he has 'won'

OP posts:

mrsflowerpot · 30/03/2007 13:42

I agree it might work better if you set out lots of breakfast things for everybody, so he can pick what he has but has to eat what he picks.

Or what if you sat your ds down and said 'look, mornings are horrible, the fighting makes all of us sad and it's got to stop. What do you think would be the best thing to do?' and let him tell you what he wants, then you can meet him half way and nobody has won.

I do think your dh is wrong here. They've really locked horns and you need to separate them I think.

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:44

weekends are not as bad as we are in no rush and can go to the park or he can play in his room and avoid conflict. school days we have time limits which is part of the problem but cant be changed

OP posts:

exbury · 30/03/2007 13:45

I think I see the problem - any sort of compromise is going to be quoted back at you by DS for ever more.

Since it is the school holidays could you try "you get nothing else to eat until you have..." it would make for a nightmare day but might get it over with?

Whilst I always try and negotiate I do understand that with exceptionally strong-willed children you sometimes just have to prove that they cannot "wait until you forget" - I sympathise - the worst we have had (so far) is DS storming and screaming for 1.5hours before he backed down (but he is only 4.5!)

mytwopenceworth · 30/03/2007 13:46

how old is he?

perhaps you should just stop even offering breakfast. just get your own and don't even ask him. don't mention it at all. be nice and sweet and happy in the morning. if he asks you about breakfast just say, "i didn't think you'd want any" and if he tries to fight about it say "oh, lets talk about something else, im bored of this" and turn on the telly.

it's like a tug of war at the moment and he is not going to let go. i guess it depends what you think of as winning. if you are determined to make him eat, then this would be giving in, but i think that not giving a crap (pretending!!) is also winning. you dont care if he eats or not, he is not winning by going hungry.

Soapbox · 30/03/2007 13:46

i think as long as you persist as a family in seeing things as 'backing down' with all the confrontation that involves, then you will not have a chance of changing DS's behaviour.

He needs to learn negotiation techniques within boundaries set 'reasonably' by you.

So 'if I make your breakfast today, what will you do for me in return'? Prompt him with behaving well on the way to school, being less grumpy etc.

You have to teach him how to give and take or this stubborn behaviour will stick and you'll have a mini version of your DH on your hands. The teenage years will be a nightmare if both of them are constantly in full face off mode!

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:46

i have decided to speak to him this afternoon and see if he has any ideas, but as he is only 6 he struggles to put things into words. discussion with dh will be after he is in bed. thats why i posted now, to see if there were any negotiating tips

OP posts:

exbury · 30/03/2007 13:49

Soapbox - good theory - and I do agree there should be some room for negotiation - but I also know my DS will sometimes back himself into a corner and refuse to compromise - at all - they also have to learn that negotiation is a 2-way process, not just parents giving way!

Original poster

gigglinggoblin · 30/03/2007 13:51

tbh he is a mini version of me as a teen and it does worry me as i only got on with my parents after i moved out (as soon as i could!). exbury has hit the nail on the head with him quoting it back to me, he does it already with less major issues, this has spiraled out of control while i have been out of action. some time ago we decided to cut out crap food and he managed to go well over a day without eating, so it will make the holidays very hard and tbh i dont want to go down that route even tho it worked that time. problem is i could see the point of that, this is just ridiculous

OP posts:

damewashalot · 30/03/2007 13:54

If I read the OP right you want a way of getting out of this without him feeling he has won, you know it's not working so I won't tell you that

Could you try something along the lines of mytwopenceworth's idea and introduce it by saying that as it is the holidays we are going to do breakfast differently. Agree that if you can have 2 weeks of nice mornings and breakfast eating without fuss, then mummy will be able to carry on doing breakfast when he goes back to school. That way it isn't you backing down as you are doing breakfast because it's the holiday not because he wants you to and he will have a reason to try hard to have you carry on.

RantInEminor · 30/03/2007 14:00

This is not a sustainable situation. It is driving you all mad and you need to end it. The only way I can see to end it(others may have better suggestions)is for you to start making the breakfast again. But, before you do, you need to have a conversation with your ds explaining that you are going to prepare his breakfast from now on as you are worried about him not eating in the morning, it is not healthy to skip breakfast and it also means that he will not have as much energy to work/play etc as his other school friends do.

If he thinks he has 'won' then so what. The fact that he views it like that and also that it annoys you so much isn't good. I would try and gently steer him away from that mindset. I know boys are very competitive but as parents we have to rise above it and steer them towards more mature ways of thinking.

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