Showing bums causing a problem

[bloodyboxeseverywhere]

Aaaargh. Feel like I'm on the pre-school watch list after a conversation with DSs teacher this morning.

She pulled me aside to tell me that 2 girls in DSs class told them that DS asked them to show him their bums. She seemed very concerned and said they were 'taken aback' as it's very out of character. They said they'd be keeping a close eye on him.

This bum-showing issue has been ongoing for a couple months now, with my friends children and with DSs friends in our street. I've googled loads and it sounds perfectly normal natural for this age (he's almost 5) but he's been told off (not in an angry way) and reminded that bums are not for anyone else's viewing, but your own (and parents/family/docs when necessary obvs) and that he needs to stop doing this.

I've mentioned it to the mums in the street, who I am quite friendly with, who have laughed it off saying their kids/ older kids have also gone through this and it to worry. One of my friends also said her DD went through this about a year ago, so I really didn't think DS was some sort of deviant

But the way the teacher spoke - both her tone and choice of words (out of character, keeping a close eye on him) - made me feel like they see this as quite serious/worrying.

I did assure them I'd speak to him again, and I do find the whole thing uncomfortable as it is embarrassing when it's your DS acting all 'free willy' but it's not like I'm just ignoring it and saying it's just a phase, let him be. I do speak to him every time anything happens. I had hoped he'd be over it by now though!

Should I be doing anything else???

DS's teacher is, ironically, an arse.

It's normal, he'll grow out of it. Just keep doing what you're doing.

Bless him

But the way the teacher spoke - both her tone and choice of words (out of character, keeping a close eye on him) - made me feel like they see this as quite serious/worrying.

I suppose they probably feel like they have to take a hardline stance against this sort of thing or risk the wrath of the "victim's" parents! It is the sort of thing you'd get threads about on here.

I wonder how you'd feel if you were the mother of one of the girls?
He might well "grow out of it" but it's not normal and he needs to be told strongly to stop it.

I guess they have got their safeguarding hats on but yes, I'd say it was a fairly normal phase. Definitely let him know it's not acceptable though.

I think by 5 this sort of behaviour should certainly be rapidly deminishing. I would probably be a bit tougher on it if it isn't.

Thanks all, I will keep repeating that it's not acceptable.

Artemesia every bit of advice I've found from reputable child development sources says this is normal. Genuinely interested in why you believe it's not, as that may enlighten me on DSs teachers attitude about it.

And I can imagine I'd have been more than a bit if DD had come home one day to tell me a bit asked her to show her bits in nursery, so totally get that they need to show they're taking 'appropriate action' if questioned by another parent.

Do I start sanctioning him if it continues? (Toy removal usually most effective for DS)

Safeguarding is one of the biggest things that is enabling the government to shut down schools and turn them into academies at the moment.

Unfortunately things like that have to be taken quite seriously and shown to be "dealt with". I wouldn't take it too personally

As a reception teacher I've had things like this, but not really as long an issue as you've said.

Perhaps try him with a book that talks about private parts etc.

"Do I start sanctioning him if it continues? (Toy removal usually most effective for DS)"
Yes. He's 5.

"Safeguarding is one of the biggest things that is enabling the government to shut down schools and turn them into academies at the moment". Really? Have you got a source for that?

Thanks Almost

That makes me feel slightly less anxious. A book is a good idea, will get onto that today.

Open to recommendations.

I missed that he was nearly 5- I read preschool. In that case def needs to know it's not ok

So he's 4. Is it really that unusual? My 3 year old has on occasion asked to see my great big bum. Wouldn't surprise me if he's said the same thing to staff at nursery.

Mum
Yes he's 2 months off his 5th birthday. I feel 4/5 is still quite young! Everything I find says this is normal (copied some links below), so I am reassured, but will obviously speak to him when he's home later and ensure he knows that he has to respect other people's' privacy, and their private parts are not for anyone else to see. And I think I will threaten toy removal now if it continues.

http://nctsn.org/nctsn_assets/pdfs/caring//_

sexualdevelopmentandbehavior.pdff_

http://www.stopitnow.org/ohc-content/what-is-age-appropriatee_

http://www.childmatters.org.nz/file/Diploma-Readings/Block-2/Sexual-Abuse/3.10-normal-sexual-exploration.pdff_

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/healthy-sexual-behaviour-children-young-people//_

"The sexual play is between children who have an ongoing mutually enjoyable play and/or school friendship.
The sexual play is between children of similar size, age, and social and emotional development.
It is lighthearted and spontaneous. The children may be giggling and having fun when you discover them.
When adults set limits (for example, children keep their clothes on at day care), children are able to follow the rules.
PRESCHOOL AGE (0 to 5 years)

He seems to be having a bit of difficulty with the last one. I think he has reached an age where he might very well upset other children , and he really needs to stop.f

We have found the NSPCC PANTS resources helpful in explaining this type of thing to DD. She's 3 and used to take all of her clothes off at nursery when she got hot. That's stopped now.

I think with safeguarding they are right to be overly cautious about behaviour that in most cases will be normal but could also be an indicator of other issues.

Of course he does need to learn to follow the rules, but I would be very cautious about how you sanction him. Innocent curiousity shouldn't be punished. Failing to follow important rules when they've been well-explained and reiterated should be punished. Perhaps you and the teacher can devise a joint strategy so he's getting consistent clear rules from both?

Bert

He never took his or anyone's else's clothes off at nursery. If you read the links, it seems common for younger children to undress themselves and run around naked, and that behaviour normally stops before school age. That's not what happened. I'm sure he probably did that when was was 2.

He asked 2 girls to show their parts, they said no, that was the end of it.

Do you honestly think that the complex development of children is so linear that all kids follow the age rules precisely to the date and hour the books say they should? So one day you're 4 and something acceptable, but the very next day it's not because you've turned 5?

Anyway, thanks for the input. I will be firmer and insist this stops, but I'm less worried about the teacher's words now having posted here and reading more this morning.

I think the teacher should take a hard line with this. It may be a normal part of their development but it's not appropriate at school/nursery. If another child at my dc's school had asked her to show them her bum, I would not be impressed and I would expect the teacher to inform the parents.

He needs to know that it is not appropriate behaviour in this setting.

Thanks intransige

That's precisely how I'll play it, he'll be threatened with toy removal because he's not listening/doing what he's been asked, not because of the behaviour itself.

Of course you have to sanction it! He's 5; he's at school. Perfectly able to follow a simple instruction of "don't do that, it's unacceptable".
If he was kicking the teacher would you wait till he grows out of it?

Flogging
He's not 5, he's in pre school and obviously not.

I'm not just waiting for him to grow out of it, hence posting here for further advice.

But thanks for the judgement. Very helpful.

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I agree it not acceptable, and will be addressing it with him when he gets home.

I agree with pp about the teacher having to show they are taking it seriously as safeguarding is very important. Similar happened to my DD (boy touched her bum not just asking to look), which left her scared to go to nursery and we had to have a meeting with the head before it was taken seriously.

This is a phase your dad will grow out of but maybe try and help him. Understand the situation with the underpants rule (you can get the book on amazon) to show that curious is fine, but privates are private..

Most children aged 4 are in school! Hence why Flogging. It's interesting that he's not in school yet. Maybe if you had moved him up with his peers he'd have a better understanding of what is acceptable of a 4 nearly 5 year old.
Maybe use the NSPCC pants rules with him!

Ds* not dad

Vin not all countries send all children aged 4 to school - only England basically. So the OP could well be in Scotland/elsewhere in the world, where children turn 5 in preschool. I have no idea where you got the impression that the OP's DS is "not with his peers".