Showing bums causing a problem

[bloodyboxeseverywhere]

Aaaargh. Feel like I'm on the pre-school watch list after a conversation with DSs teacher this morning.

She pulled me aside to tell me that 2 girls in DSs class told them that DS asked them to show him their bums. She seemed very concerned and said they were 'taken aback' as it's very out of character. They said they'd be keeping a close eye on him.

This bum-showing issue has been ongoing for a couple months now, with my friends children and with DSs friends in our street. I've googled loads and it sounds perfectly normal natural for this age (he's almost 5) but he's been told off (not in an angry way) and reminded that bums are not for anyone else's viewing, but your own (and parents/family/docs when necessary obvs) and that he needs to stop doing this.

I've mentioned it to the mums in the street, who I am quite friendly with, who have laughed it off saying their kids/ older kids have also gone through this and it to worry. One of my friends also said her DD went through this about a year ago, so I really didn't think DS was some sort of deviant

But the way the teacher spoke - both her tone and choice of words (out of character, keeping a close eye on him) - made me feel like they see this as quite serious/worrying.

I did assure them I'd speak to him again, and I do find the whole thing uncomfortable as it is embarrassing when it's your DS acting all 'free willy' but it's not like I'm just ignoring it and saying it's just a phase, let him be. I do speak to him every time anything happens. I had hoped he'd be over it by now though!

Should I be doing anything else???

Bloodyboxes- the keeping clothes on was just being used as an example of children being able to keep to limits set by adults- that'swhT I suggested he was struggling with- he has been told repeatedly not to do this but he still does. And I agree that development isn't linear- that's why I asked earlier whether these incidents were getting more infrequent or not.

Crowley
Thanks. Sorry to hear your DD was upset. I understand the school needs to take it seriously, especially when a child is too scared to go back after an incident like that. I hope she settled back in ok.

And you did make me laugh with your typo!

There have been maybe 4 or 5 times over the last couple of months, this nursery incident is maybe the 6th.

And yes, I'm in Scotland so haven't held DS back

Having a look at NSPCC pants resources, will definitely use them.

Fair enough, I get that Bert,

But he's an energetic, excitable 4 year old. I'm fairly certain most 4 and 5 year olds have previous for not doing what they're told 100% of the time.

The previous incidents were with my friends DD (who is a year older than DS, so they were maybe 4.5 and 5.5) and my friend thinks her DD probably instigated it as she had been doing that with dance class friends a weeks or so before, then a couple of "you show me yours if I show you mine" type incidents with some kids of similar ages (ranging from almost 4 to 6) in the street when playing round back gardens (I suspect maybe instigated by DS), and one time he mentioned after soft play that him and another boy showed their bums (DS said the other boy asked first - didn't tell me any of this until a few days later ). The soft play was about 2-3 weeks after the first one with friends DD.

I've taken the same line each time, as I've said in earlier posts. I will now I will be firmer, but am not going to make him feel bad for being curious when it is clear that this is a developmental stage. I do, however, need to ensure he understands it's ok to be curious but it's not ok to ask to see. And he needs to follow the rules or else sanctions will happen.

Thanks for all the helpful responses and signposting to resources.

It can be normal play but it is also an abuse indicator. The teacher was right to sound concerned. If a boy was asking your child to do this, it would be a red flag for you too.

I read the teachers concern in a different way to pp, to me it came across she was concerned his behaviour was being picked up from someone. Maybe a concern his picking it up from an adult, which might make them think his at risk of being abused.
they were 'taken aback' as it's very out of character

Are there any consequences when he does this or do you just remind him. You may need to get tougher.

It's possible that the parents of the girls have complained. I know I would in the strongest possible terms. So having dealt with that no wonder the poor teacher is,taking it seriously and saying it's worrying, it is!

If there was a second incident and it was my daughter I'd be straight to the head and bypass teacher all together

Wise up op. This is not acceptable and yoy need to introduce consequences when your son does this.

And yes it's an abuse indicator so they are right to be worried

Awe meiow
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I'll speak to his teacher again tomorrow
And tell her that we'll follow the NSPCC underpants rule and keep reinforcing that for now, as well as toy removal if there are any more incidents.
I wonder if I should tell him that other parents will be told if there's any more of this, and that the school might be annoyed with me and DH for not dealing with it well enough. Is that overkill? Maybe that's the next step.

TBH, I'm feeling a bit at a few of the responses implying he's responsible for some sort of atrocious act. Yes, I totally get that this needs to be addressed (and have a plan now), and I totally get that behaviours like that can be a red flag (but often aren't) and can upset other kids, but it feels a bit like some posters are demonising a lovely little 4.8 year old boy when it's clearly just a normal stage of development.

2014
'Wise up'

I posted this thread for advice, got advice, reflected on it, and have made a plan.

What other wise words do you have for me?

It isn't a normal stage of development!

Nobody is demonising your child but you were surprised the teacher was worried and thought she was taking it too seriously. She isn't.
You need to get firmer which it sounds like you are doing now.
Focus on the positive, perhaps a star chart where every day he doesn't do this behaviour he gets a happy face or star and ultimately a reward.

Have toy actually checked with him whether anyone has asked him to show his but eg an adult? Don't ignore the possibility.

I'd be taking the whole thing more seriously rather than criticising the teacher whose job it us to safeguard all the kids concerned. The other parents may be creating merry he'll about this, I know u would be. You haven't had to deal with that, the teacher has

Where/when did I criticise his teacher?

Ps I get the seriousness of safeguarding and hadn't really considered until now that they might be worried for him. I didn't get that impression though, but would support whatever policy in any case.

I'll obviously have that conversation with DS.

One the one hand, I'm being vilified for not being harsh enough with him (bearing in mind PP calling the other kids 'victims', referring to other parents 'creating merry hell' etc) but on the other hand, some people are suggesting it's his safeguarding^^ the teacher may be considering. So how can you be firm and punish a child for behaviour that theoretically could stem from abuse??

I'm pretty sure there is no abuse issue here but will explore this using the tools the professionals provide as per all my previous posts.

Pps have just spoken to my friend who is a children & families social worker, and does CP training in her local authority. Have been reassured that showing bums is not a red flag in itself, and that wanting to see kids other bits is indeed normal at this age. Red flags and abuse indicators are more likely to be age-inappropriate sexual acts. But always wise to have a chat and use NSPCC underpants resource as further incidents might lead to a meeting (usually precautionary and such meetings rarely progress onto anything else as more often than not there are no additional/further concerns) and school would want to know what we'd been doing up until that point.

Thank you barbarian

Feels like I'm having to defend a small child doing what some (many in fact) small children naturally do.
(Not withstanding the fact I know he needs to realise that it's not ok to show or be shown the pants area and I have a plan for that before I get flamed again)

My response to you upthread came from my experience as safeguarding lead in my school.
It stops being normal development behaviour when it continues over time as you have said and that even after you have repeatedly told the child, as his parent, that it's wrong, something makes it continue.
It will have been flagged quite rightly and rather than spending hours on the web trying to find proof that your son is in the right, you need to get it sorted before it becomes not just inappropriate but a massive red flag for his school.

The fact that it's continued over several months suggests it's slightly more than "just a phase".

That's interesting, as my friend who works in child protection says it is normal.
So 2 professionals with polar opposite opinions.

I'm hardly trying to prove my son is 'in the
right'. He's 4.8 ffs! Just trying to determine whether it's a concern or just normal natural curiosity at his stage of development.

Still believe it's the latter but will proceed as per plan (as stated several times before) since the school obviously has a duty of care to all kids, and I need to play my part in that.