biting

[Twinsmum]

I have twin boys aged 22 months who are absolutely lovely but who are both quite aggressive. They fight with each other a lot which I find very upsetting (lots of hair pulling, pushing, hitting etc). One of them has recently taken this one stage further and now seem to attack any child who gets in his way. This even includes biting. He takes absolutely no notice of anything we try to stop this. (Ignoring (very difficult), shouting, tapping his hand, time out etc etc etc.) They both go to nursery twice a week where they advocate time out. Any advice gratefully recieved. He's a wonderful little boy but he really is a handful.

My son (almost 3) left his Montessori Nursery school yesterday with a very nasty bite mark on his hand which is still there this morning. He was clearly upset by it. When he was collected, the staff made no mention of any incident as has happened once before when he arrived home with an injured finger.

Before I telephone the school, I would just like to get an idea of whether others would have expected to be informed of such an incident?. Personally, I would like to know whether it was a one off, if it was provoked and how it was dealt with etc but I am new to having a child at this sort of institution and don't want to come across as a pushy parent. It is a perfect indentation of both the top and bottom set of a toddler's gnashers so I imagine it would have been quite a big deal at the time.

Bells2, I would expect to be told, if only to be reassured that my child had been comforted and reassured and that the incident had been noted and dealt with. At the nursery my ds and dd go to they have an accident book where all such incidents are recorded. It's primarily for bumps on the head, but they also record any other damage that occurs and I have to sign when I collect them to say that I have been informed. They aren't allowed to say which other child was involved in the incident, but that doesn't make much difference now because both of my children are old enough to tell me themselves.

Well my son has been bitten and bit himself so I know both sides...
Our nursery tells us even if the mark has gone, we need to sign an accident book. They do not tell you who bit your child but will (should) tell you that they have spoken to the parent (in my case they certainly did (see my post on 2 oct.)
So yes - IMO should have been told and also explained in what circumstances this happened as I am sure you would want to know if your child started to bite.
IME these are short phases.... my son "only" bit for a week and has never done it since.

Azzie and I posted simultaneously.... similar views !

My dd, 8 months has 4 teeth, two top and two bottom and recently has taken to biting my shoulder and has even drawn blood ! Is this common or is my daughter a vampire ?!

Tillysmummy

Have you tried smearing your shoulder in garlic/holy water? Just in case....

Bells
Your nursery is obliged to tell you of any injury to your child no matter how it was sustained.It must also be recorded in their accident book which you have to sign. Not the reason is that if your child feels unwell later at home you will have something to go on.

Yes Mines, I will have to try that and I have my stakes ready. Do you think that Angel will come and save me ?!

Excuse my grammar, I meant to say not the least reason..

I would DEFINITELY expect the keyworker to have drawn your attention to this bite mark and to have been able to give you an explanation of what happened and what was done afterwards. An accident book should be produced for signing by you, the member of staff who dealt with the incident and the nursery manager. This is what happens at ds' nursery and I think in any establishment providing daycare it is the law to log any trauma to a child, however short-term, in this way.
What they won't do is tell you whodunnit, presumably so you don't handbag the little poppet next time you seem him/her.
Bells, I think you should discuss the matter with the nursery management. Even if the actual bite was not witnessed (and this happens), I can't believe that your ds' reaction was overlooked - or went unheard.
Poor little guy, I hope he is feeling better soon. Although I expect this morning you are feeling worse about it all than he is!

Thanks a lot for that. I fully accept that these things happen but I did feel quite upset that no-one there bothered to mention it. And as Pupuce says, I would most definitely want to know if my son did anything like this. I presume that the requiements of a school as such are no different form that of a day care type nursery.

I feel slightly as though I am a marked woman with the school. When I went in for a meeting with the teachers, they asked me how many hours a day I spent with my son on the 4 days that I worked. They clearly didn't think 2 - 2.5 hours a day playing / reading etc was enough although having spent the previous 30 minutes telling me how wonderfully happy and content he was, I didn't quite get their point. Anyway, hence my reluctant to go in and question yesterday's incident without some back up so thanks again!.

Marina, re your comment about what should happen even if the bite was not witnesssed - recently I've had to sign the accident book for dd for several incidents that no-one saw and I'm sure she made up! The staff have told me that they are also pretty sure that they are made-up (they usually occur just after one of her friends has had an accident!) but they have to give her the benefit of the doubt just in case.

Bells, I wouldn't be at all wary of speaking to the nursery about this incident. To the nursery it shows you are a caring mother who pays close attention to her son's daily welfare, even when she is sinfully away working

I'd definitely want to know more about the incident if it was me ie was a fight over a toy involved, was it unprevoked? My son has come back with the odd bite and used to bite back himself.

Each time an incident occurs, we are given a full explanation, so we can reinforce to our son that biting was wrong - and if he was the one who was bitten, that he must tell a grown up. At nearly three years old, he's just getting old enough to have these little 'talks' with.

Hope your ds come back from the nursery all smiles today.

I'd definitely expect to be informed, Bells- the staff at my kids' nursery are constantly pressing duplicates from the accident book into my unwilling hands! They too don't reveal the evildoer, and I once had the delight of being told that son-the-one had been bitten by an unidentifed little boy and that -oh coincidence of coincidences- son-the-other had bitten an unidentified little boy... My brain was working overtime on that one, obviously!

Just to give you an update after having spoken to the school. The two teachers claimed to know nothing about the incident but having seen the bite mark, surmised that it must have happened when the children were outside being supervised by a junior assistant. Obviously it is worrying that she neglected to pass it on. Anyway, he has been bitten again today by the same boy who apparently has bitten other children before. Once again, the bite is a nasty one. They have promised to speak to the boy's parents.

What do you do in a situation like this?. Is 2 bites on consecutive days something to worry about?. Assuming it continues, at what stage do you think it is appropriate to request some sort of positive action in order to try and ensure it stops?

Thanks in advance

A difficult one, Bells. If I was in your situation I think I'd want a clear outline from the nursery about how they were dealing with this. We all understand that small children do bite sometimes, usually out of frustration or as an attention-seeking maneouvre, but if this child has bitten others then they need to be keeping a closer eye on him until he grows out of this behaviour. After all, they have a duty to protect the other children at the nursery. It's good that they're going to talk to his parents, because obviously a joint effort by nursery and home is the best way to deal with the situation. However, it's hard to see how the parents can control their son's behaviour when he's at nursery - this is the responsibility of the nursery staff and they must have some sort of strategy for dealing with this type of behaviour. And after all, with their breadth of experience with small children they must have come across this type of behaviour before.

I completely agree with Azzie.... it is VERY likely that the child's parent will be very upset (I was and friends of mine have been as well.... none of us like to know that our angel is being "naughty/nasty"... so give that a chance BUT YES do expect the staff to pay particular attention to this behaviour... as Montessori's they must have "their" way of dealing with this sort of behaviour.

Don't know why there is a in my text... it wasn't intended... that will teach me to PREVIEW

Like Azzie, I would be expecting a statement of intent from the nursery staff about dealing with the little boy who did this. He needs the nursery staff's intervention to put a stop to this sort of behaviour and his parents need to be aware of it too.
And I think now is the time to ask what they are planning to do. I would be extremely concerned if my son was bitten by the same child on consecutive days, especially if the first incident was not handled correctly. I'd be equally concerned - and mortified - if my son was the one doing the biting.
I do hope you can get a good response from the nursery soon, Bells.

Bells, my son was a biter, it went on for almost a year, I used to hate going in to Nursery to hear about what he had done, sometimes used to leave in tears. But, they should always tell the parent of the child, even though it made me feel awful, I was glad I knew what/how it happened because then I could talk to my son about it, and how naughty it was (and with-hold treats to reinforce). He stopped by the time he was 3yo. He has since been bitten a few times by a particular child at Nursery who is almost 5, which IMO is vastly different from a child of 2ish biting. Your Nursery should definitely have put it in their accident book, my Nursery puts everything in the accident book no matter how minor.

bells2, I find it irritating that they say 'oh .... junior assistant ..' Push blame elsewhere!!

They shouldnt in that case have a junior assistant supervising playtime - a time when most bitings, pushings, accidents and falling outs happen.

Think you've dealt with it really well.

Hear hear, Ems. Playtimes should supervised especially carefully.

Bells, would it help to ask the nursery in detail what happens at playtimes? I expect you know much already but a few more questions might not go amiss. ie how many staff are on duty and what exactly are the rules and routines?

As for the repeat biting, I think it's very important to find out if the reason was a repeat too - ie if the children tend to quarrel over turns for a certain favourite pushalong car, perhaps the nursery staff could remove it or acquire some others.

Hope the news from the nursery is better tomorrow.

That's what annoyed me too Ems - can't bear it when people try and shift blame. Tigermoth, thanks for the suggestions. Am going in at lunchtime and will make sure I ask those things.

I phoned up another mother of a child at the school last night and was concerned to hear that one little girl had effectively been bullied out of the school by a boy through physical abuse. Seems the school is failing at dealing with "difficult" children and I think it is best to get a sense the scale of the problem as soon as possible.

My son who was first bitten every day for nearly 3 weeks by another child around the age of 24 - 28 months (once quite badly on his face the teeth marks were there for 3 months). He then bit the other child back the biter stopped but my son continued well past the age of 3. I always always informed when he was biten and likewise if he had bitten as in my vast and varied experience of biting it appears to be one thing that although is very common especially amongst boys as highly unacceptable behaviour. No one likes there child to be hurt and most of accept that these things happen but I do think your nursery should try to take a little more responsibility although I do appreciate how hard it is to have eyes everywhere. I hope your nursery experience is better in the future.

Just t opick up this again - my ds2 has started biting at playgroup. He's nearly 2. He's been going there twice a week, now 3 times a week with older brother for about 3 months. A few months ago I tried ds 1 in another playgroup, and he was v. unhappy there. I took him out & tried this one as they could be together.

I was v.v. happy with this new group. Both boys, even sensitive ds1 really liked it. Went without a fuss, no tears when I said goodbye, talked aboout it as the nice playgroup with the nice ladies. Plus it's very close to our home.

Until yesterday it seemed ideal. One of the 2 ladies that run it told me that ds2 had been hitting other children. He has done this at home a bit recently. It's never hard enough to hurt, but that isn't the point. We've always just said something like no hitting. Hitting's not allowed. Hitting hurts people etc.

Anyway, today I was dreading going in, and she told me he had been hitting again, and when she told him off he tried to bite her. She was fine about it, said it was a phase a lot of kids go through etc. BUT then she told me that when they tell him off they say No firmly to him, and also lightly slap the back of his hand. I was a bit shocked and taken aback - I don't hit either of my kids and don't really agree with hitting, I feel unhappy that this happens (I sound really wet I know), but I'm useless and terrified of confrontations, plus I am not living in the uk, so all of this is in a foreign language for me, and often I'm not clear exactly what she's saying, but can usually, after a couple of questions for clarification work it out. Plus, culturally, there are a few differences, esp regarding child care.

To make it even worse, she then told me, to stop him biting I should bite him back. I was really shocked then. I managed to say I didn't agree with this. I then asked in alarm if she had bitten him. She looked surprised and said no, and I believe her, but now I'm unsure what to do. First about ds hitting and biting, but 2nd about the playgroup. Until today I've been absolutely delighted with it, and both boys seem very happy there (like I said, ds1 tried another & he made it v. clear he wasn't happy, so I'm sure they are). What should I do???