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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Beating the naughty step

41 replies

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:06

My daughter has just turned 2 and is a nightmare - she is constantly doing things she shouldn't (i.e. putting her doll in the microwave and turning it on, after i took my eyes off her for a second to turn the oven on!). I always thought I would use the naughty step as supernanny says, but my daughter has found 2 ways in which to stop this working. She doesn't appear to find it unpleasant- she just sits and chats to herself or she runs up to me then when i go to put her backl on the step she runs back and sits on it before i can get to her and finds it really funny. Has anyone got any ideas??

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Frizbe · 05/03/2007 22:09

Stick a stair gate on it! then they can't run back to you 'am I evil, yes I am......' 2 mins for a 2 year old, 3 mins for a 3 etc etc and just ensure you use it every time she's naughty, they soon get into not going on it, when she's on it every time she's naughty, instantly, with no warning!

colditz · 05/03/2007 22:13

Ok, I am going against the flow, maybe, but I don't think she is grasping this. I don't think she is old enough to understand fully, and when she put her doll in the microwave, she was probably just copting you making dinner.

On Supernanny, she is very firm about only using it for real bad behavior. Copying you, he mummy, doesn't fall into that catagory IMO. If you don't want her to fiddle with the microwave, I would suggest keeping her away from it.

The idea is also that it removes her from the situation - not that she has to sit and sob and be 'punished', but also, she is so very young.

Original poster

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:16

That's a good idea! Do you mean with a stair gate at the top and bottom of the stairs? so far we have been resorting to standing with our backs to her while she's on it so we can put her back on it as soon as she gets off, but this is quite time consuming considering the number of times she needs to go on it!!

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Original poster

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:19

I didn't punish her for the microwave incident - i just put that in to illustrate her capabilities - i'm sure she was copying me! we now don't have it plugged in and nor does the childminder!! i do find it difficult to know which things are really bad and require punishment though?!

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sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:24

Agree with colditz. i think it's really important to distinguish between normal, curious, investigative or imitative behaviour like this microwave thing, and real naughtiness that you need to impose a consequence for.

With the microwave thing, and similar stuff, this isn't naughtiness that needs punishing; she's imitating, playing mum basically; I think toddler proofing is much the healthier way to go and will save you from feeling you have to DEAl with so much stuff. If the microwave can't be moved up out of reach, put a stairgate on the kitchen doorway so that she can't reach stuff in there. Or have a playpen that you can stick her in just for loo trips or turning the oven on...

don't feel you need to deal with every action....most times it's enough to say "oh no, we don't touch the microwave, that's hot hot hot....let's help dolly do her cooking instead" or whatever...it's distraction basically.

i think you need to try to toddler proof like mad and don't be afraid just to say 'No' and divert her attention. So much doesn't need punishing, she doesn't need 'training'....tell her what you want her to do, give her the chance to comply....

and I hate naughty steps personally, i just think they create such a lot of work in trying to keep the child there, returning them endlessly....I think if the child has been given chances to moderate behaviour and they are being totally impossible and defiant then 1 minute in another room on their own is far, far easier all round.

sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:27

Kate in answer to your question I think probably much much less than you might think, needs 'punishment'. I wouldn't say I've EVER 'punished' my ds, he has a few times had a time out in his room if he's been beside himself and just completely unable to be reasonable, but he's five soon....

Don't feel you have to 'deal' with stuff so much. Your dd is very very young, she is exploring...

colditz · 05/03/2007 22:28

Really bad - hitting, biting, kicking etc.

If she drew on the floor, then you told her not to, and she did it again... the answer would be to let her draw in her high chair, or take the crayons away.

But if she was following you around kicking at your feet, and didn't stop when told to stop, then, for me, that would be naughty step time.

colditz · 05/03/2007 22:31

I speak from experiance, I was TOO HARD on my little boy, and now he is impeccable - while watched. But the minute my back is turned, he is being naughty. Not always, but I feel if I had allowed him to explore when he was 2, he wouldn't be tearing my house apart now he is nearly 4. They are so so young at two, you look back on it and you see the babies they really were, instead of the naughty child you thought you had to deal with.

Original poster

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:33

I think i watch too many of these programmes on telly where parents have completely lost control of their kids and am worried about this happening if i don't do enough now. Would you say that if she does things such as putting the pots and pans I've just washed up back in the washing up bowl when i've continually told her not to (this one of things she's been making a habit of recently) requires a 'time out'? or drawing on the furniture?

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Original poster

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:39

Looking at all this advice, i think my dd is not as bad as i thought!! i think she's probably just investigating things. she told a lie the other day though- she drew on the window and blamed it on her half brother who hadn't even been here - do you think shes too young to realise she shoudn't be doing this or should i tell her off right from the start?

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colditz · 05/03/2007 22:41

I really wouldn't. get a stairgate on your kitchen door - kitchens are dangerous for little kids, and little kids have no self control. All the naughty steps in the world won't give her any self control, that will mostly come with age.

If she is messing with pots, surely she can't reach the sink without a chair? Put her down and move the chair away. if she is drawing on the furniture - well, she really can't see why she can draw on paper, and not furniture. Put the pens well out of reach and let her sit in her high chair to draw.

Most of this sort of behavior is behavior she can't help. The naughty step won't change this. The supernanny programs are usually dealing with much older kids, with genuinely challenging behavior.

colditz · 05/03/2007 22:42

seriously, move the pens. Now she can draw she will draw on everything. She just will.

juuule · 05/03/2007 22:43

I agree with what's been said before. At 2 she is just discovering things.
"Would you say that if she does things such as putting the pots and pans I've just washed up back in the washing up bowl when i've continually told her not to (this one of things she's been making a habit of recently) requires a 'time out'?"
No, I don't. I'd help her to 'wash' some of the pots or leave her some to do. She is imitating you. Then I would say something like 'okay we've finished the washing up, what shall we do now? and go to find something else for her to do.
"or drawing on the furniture?"
Tell her it's not good for the furniture to draw on it and if she wants to draw then use paper and show her where it's kept or to ask you. Also only have washable pens or pencils available to her as a back up because it's unlikely the message will get across first go.
Try to see things from her point of view. At 2 she will not often want to deliberately upset you. Although if she is looking for attention she will latch onto whatever gets a reaction from you (good or bad).

BandofMothers · 05/03/2007 22:45

Get an aquadraw. They are filled with water and only draw on the mat. You might get damp chairs, but she'll soon get bored if she can't see her pics.

BandofMothers · 05/03/2007 22:47

Or like Colditz said, confine drawing to highchair. I have only just started letting dd1 (3yo) sit on settee to draw. At 2 she was in highchair or at the table. Pens never left the table.
Or take the pens away every time she does it. She'll soon get the message

Frizbe · 05/03/2007 22:47

agree with stairgate on kitchen door too colditz, for the record we also have them top n bottom of stairs.

sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:48

exactly colditz.

So much of two year old stuff, like drawing on the furniture, could be seen to require 'punishment' but I could never raise any anger about this sort of thing; to me, if ds were to have done this I wuold have first thought, well I should have been supervising him so that he couldn't do that. Then I would tell him no, we don't draw on the furniture, only on paper, and re-directed him to the paper....

Kate I think you just need to constantly divert your dd if she is doing things you don't want her to. Toddler proof the place as much as is humanly possible, so that she can pretty much touch anything around without getting into trouble....and yes, stairgates on rooms she can't be safe in.

Personally I think if you naughty step her now, you'll have two years or so of power struggles and confrontation; within a couple of years her behaviour will be much more controlled even if you don't put her on the naughty step once, I bet you........

Elibean · 05/03/2007 22:48

Am with Colditz and Sunnyside on this...2 is very very young, and I found distracting, removing things/child, and saying firm 'no' when necessary was best with dd at this age. Lots and lots of toddler proofing, too!

Very simple, natural consequences have worked with dd since she was 2.5+ - big difference between just 2 and 2.5, and again between 2.5 and 3, IMO. As did/does me explaining why, when I say 'no' to something.

I have tried a version of the step thing, labelling it a 'calming down spot' rather than a naughty one, and I can see how well it works with some children. Personally though, I think its better with older ones.

Good luck, a microwaved doll sounds...messy

sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:50

oh, and with the washing up bowl, there's no WAY that would merit a time out ; just as juule said, let her help, or divert her on to something else...let her take the pans down on to the floor and make a noise with them or something, or get her to 'stack' them in the cupboard.....

None of that stuff is naughtiness requiring any sanction, she's looking for activity and all she needs is for you to think of an activity she is allowed to do......

Original poster

kate298486 · 05/03/2007 22:51

How does everyone know all this? it all really makes sense and i will put it into action in the morning!!

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sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:52

elibean, 'calming down spot' is a much more positive, kind approach I think. But I do agree, for older ones rather than 2 yr olds....

sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 22:56

bitter experience kate

Glad it's been helpful. Just have fun with her, have fun being creative with her and thinking "ok, what CAN I let her do with that mud in her hand once I've explained that no, we don't smear it on the cream carpet"

colditz · 05/03/2007 23:02

We all have 3 and 4 year olds lol

sunnysideup · 05/03/2007 23:11

Actually, I think what it is, is trusting your child. Trust your dd that she is not doing anything with any malice in mind...always approach her with kindness and understanding and tolerance, and a willingness to explain...sometimes I think people feel a responsibility to train their kids as they worry about the future.....but her behaviour now is two year old behaviour. This is absolutely no guide to how she will behave at four or six, she's simply behaving naturally according to her age and stage of development.

Just trust her to be a lovely little girl, don't worry about her

mollymawk · 05/03/2007 23:26

Your dd sounds really entertaining...

Just a comment about the "telling a lie" thing - I believe that at that age they can't really lie at all because they don't fully understand that they can know things you don't, so I wouldn't worry about that being "naughty". Maybe she was just experimenting with stories!

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