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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Is this normal for the "horrible 3's"?

34 replies

jabberwocky · 25/02/2007 15:36

Ds1 (3.6) has always been a handful. Since the day he was born I have had problems dealing with him. But the last 6 to 9 months have been unbelievably trying. To be fair ds2 was born in November and his nanny that he has had since he was 6 weeks old left in January. But the issues of his temper tantrums go back even before all of that.

Last night is a good example. A friend of ours opened a coffee shop with open mic night on Saturday nights. We went with the dcs and at first ds1 was having a good time and behaving tolerably well. I had to ask him to sit down and not run about once or twice but it wasn't a big deal. Then another little friend showed up and they started playing "chase". It was terribly disruptive and after asking him to stop for the second time I told him he would have to sit with me for a while. He then proceeded to lie down on the floor and refuse. I picked him up and put him on my lap but he was squirming to get down the whole time. Dh decided to take him outside for a bit. That only escalated things though until dh had to take him home.

I followed soon after - had to get ds2 together, etc - and walked in the house to find ds1 in full-blown tantrum screaming his head off, crying so hard that he would almost lose his breath and repeating things over and over. This is typical of his tantrums. Poor dh was just trying to ignore ds1 as nothing else had worked.

It is really frightening to see him like this. And for it to start sometimes over absolutely nothing scares me even more. It can be something as little as asking him if he wants to play outside instead of inside. He (imo) sometimes behaves as if he has had some type of trauma, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has not. I have started to wonder if I've done something wrong in my parenting. We try to give him attention and activities. We replaced the nanny with 2 half-days of pre-school and and one or two days a week at a babysitter's house. She is a close friend and has a 2 year old that ds1 really likes to play with.

I think he has thrown some similar tantrums at school but not at the babysitter's (yet). Of course, he has only been doing this for a month or so.

Dh is struggling with health issues, anxiety and depression and this is putting a strain on him - and our marriage. I keep thinking it's a phase but then have started to wonder if I should look into some counseling, either for ds1 or the whole family.

And, of course as I write this, he has been a perfect angel for the last hour or so.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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hotandbothered · 25/02/2007 15:45

I would look into some sort of counselling/parenting advice to give yourselves a bit of support. Often it only takes an outsiders view to give you some tips...
Could your health visitor or gp recommend someone? Also Nursery can help you to access that sort of thing. HTH

Original poster

jabberwocky · 25/02/2007 15:55

That's what I was thinking. Dh, even as stressed as he is about it, keeps saying it's normal but I feel it's gone ott. I wonder if dh just doesn't want to admit there migt be a real issue here?

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Saturn74 · 25/02/2007 15:55

Does DS1 get sleep well, and what time does he go to bed?
My DS2 had trouble with transitions from one activity to another, and coped very badly with change.
We had to give him warnings before we changed anything eg: we are going to go out for a walk in five minutes, so you need to finish what you are playing now.
A wall chart with different pictures for different activities helped - we had one at home, and the pre-school had one too. It helped him to know the routine.
We later (age 5) found he has allergies to gluten, wheat, dairy, sweeteners, additives and colourings. Once we got his diet sorted, it was like a fog had lifted from him.
He still needs LOTS of sleep, and regular healthy snacks to keep his blood sugar levels even.

Original poster

jabberwocky · 25/02/2007 22:17

The blood sugar is a good point. I've found that a little diluted juice can really help at times. Snacks too, make a big difference.

I had to go into work dor a few hours today and the babysitter said he was wonderful the whole time. After talking with my mother it turns out that he mainly acts out around my dh. Sooo, how do I diplomatically approach that?

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Original poster

jabberwocky · 25/02/2007 22:19

Oh, and you're right about transitions. It can be very tricky getting him to change activities.

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edam · 25/02/2007 22:34

Mine's the same age and can have the most God-awful tantrums, thankfully only occasionally and very rarely in public. Like yours, he tends to be at his worst around his daddy - can only think it's because he sees less of dh (dh works full time and commutes so only sees ds at bedtime in the week).

nellyfin · 25/02/2007 22:38

if your dh is suffering from health problems/anxiety etc, your ds is probably picking up on this, that would explain why he is acting up around him. i dont know what the answer is im afraid but kids are so sensitive to atmospheres and tension. is your dh seeking help for his problems, if so, it may help the situation. good luck xx

sunnysideup · 25/02/2007 23:12

Maybe adjust your expectations a little bit? I could never have expected my ds to behave, at 3, at an 'open mic' night at a cafe/bar....he would have been A) too tired to cope and B) too hyped up by the atmosphere...he certainly wouldn't have 'sat down and not run about' in that scenario.

i think you set yourselves up to fail with that one, I know it's hard if you can't get out without the dc's but we just didn't take ds to that sort of thing as we knew tantrums would result. Ds is five soon and we only stayed about an hour at his grandparent's ruby wedding celebrations!!

I definitely think your ds sounds like he is reflecting your DH's anxiety and problems at the moment It's a very delicate situation for you to be put in....I think if you can focus on getting counselling for your DH, or for you and your dh in view of the strain you are feeling on your marriage, before you even consider it for your child.

But also, I wanted to reassure you that ALL the 3 year olds I know have had the most incredible tantrums...it IS a phase, as you say! Good luck with this x

RedTartanLass · 26/02/2007 10:58

HAve to agree with sunnysideup, when I read your original post was mega-impressed that you took him to an open mic on a Sat night! He's only 3 he's not going to be able to sit down and enjoy the atmosphere The most we've been brave enough to try in an evening is a restaraunt or a wedding or two!

My ds2 is a wee bit of a monster at the moment and turns from angel from heaven to monster from hell at the drop of a hat.

Can empathise with the repeating everything over and over. An extreme form of torture is listening to a whiny 3 year old saying "Want Ceebeebees, want Ceebeebees" over and over and over and over again. He watches TV about 3 times a week, it's not as if he knows he will be allowed.

Distraction, doesn't work with him (unless it's sweets, but that's kindda defeating the purpuse eh)

Sorry for the long post, but had a wonderful weekend with him and today he's back to monster boy!!!

Original poster

jabberwocky · 26/02/2007 15:03

Thanks everyone. He did beautifully at the babysitter's yesterday and throughout the evening so I'm thinking less dh time atm would be best.

I guess I should have explained more about the open mic night It was a very child-friendly atmosphere. There were about 6 or 7 small children/toddlers there and the singers incorporated many children's songs. Also it was quite early when we got there. We left about 7:30.

Still wondering how to handle the ds1/dh scenario but I guess I will take each day as it comes with that. So far, dh has resisted counselling...

I guess I also need to keep repeating to myself

It's a phase, it's a phase, it's a phase...

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Lullabyloo · 27/02/2007 11:46

hi honey
just wanted to give you a big {{{hug}}}}
ds is having wild tantrums at the moment that almost always happen when we have to leave the house,group,park etc or return.Again..doesn't cope well with transition & change.
They are exhausting & there is absolutely no distracting him whilst in the middle of one.
Talking him through the day bit by bit giving plenty of warning before we are going to do something has helped a little...they are definitely less frequent.
Missed you lately ...you know where I am if you want to talk xxxxx

KTeePee · 27/02/2007 12:50

Your description of your ds reminds me so much of my ds1 at that age (especially repeating the same thing over and over...) - and unfortunately ds2 who has recently turned 3 seems to be heading that way too - in fact the reason I found your thread is because I came into the behaviour/development section to see if there were any old threads giving advice on the current problems I am having with both - sigh....

I know you said the open mic thing was geared towards children but tbh I agree with those who said this was bound to end in tears - even 7.30 is far too late for most children of that age to be out and about and I would never expect a child that young to sit still if there were opportunities to run amok!

My dh also found this phase (and that is what it probably is) very hard - I do think it is because he was not around as much as me so hadn't learned the rule of "picking your battles" for example. And it is very normal for children to go through phases of favouring one parent (usually the one who is around more) and wanting tht parent to do everything for them.... I know just how hard it is dealing with constant tantrums, I used to think it would never improve because although I never gave in, always tried to be consistent, etc it felt like it took months before it made a difference.

However, I found a huge improvement in ds1 by the time he turned four, probably just because he "grew out of it" - I'm sure your ds will too!

ohsmellyjelly · 27/02/2007 12:57

Message withdrawn

ScottishThistle · 27/02/2007 13:03

Sounds pretty normal to me though I know that doesn't help.

Pick your battles, give prior warning when things are coming to an end...be firm & consistent...I find children of this age have more tantrums when they're unsure of the boundaries.

Good luck!

chipkid · 27/02/2007 13:11

My Ds was extremely tricky at this age. Highly resistant to transitions, restrictions on his freedom and very excitable in the company of others. He would never survive a later bedtime than 7pm and there had to be some calm time before bed for him to cope.

I can tell you that he is now 5 and is absolutely amazing. He has matured emotionally, can be reasoned with and knows his boundaries. He still needs to be in bed by 7-7.30 but we have none of the difficulties that he used to present.

I too think your ds is perhaps picking up on the atmosphere if your dh is stressed. My Ds is extremely sensitive and will act accordingly if he feels that something is not right.

I just wanted to tell you that it WILL get better and to send you lots of hugs until it does.
x

Original poster

jabberwocky · 27/02/2007 20:32

Wow, I didn't think anyone else would post but decided to take a peek in today. My online time has been really limited lately so I haven't been on MN as much as I would like

I guess I do expect too much. It's just so hard when I see other children his age behaving so much better. Although a little boy who is one month older pitched a small tantrum at the playground yesterday and I was secretly pleased

I have been trying to pay closer attention to what triggers his tantrums. We had some problems at gymnastics class yesterday which I think were related to having a new teacher. In addition to being different she was literally very hands-on and ds1 is not a touchy, feely kind of kid. So I think he reacted adversely to that.

I guess too, I'm just tired of dealing with this phase and am really ready for him to grow out of it. Cue frustration at this being totally out of my hands... And I'm a bit disappointed that ds1's tantrums mean that I can't enjoy ds2 the way I would like to He's such a sweet happy little baby and I don't want to cut him short of attention but it's just so hard sometimes.

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gothicmama · 27/02/2007 20:35

have you tried parentline for advice, Jabberwocky they give v good advice, sometimes looking for a reason to behaviour makes you doubt yourself and can 'paralyse' how you parent keeping do what is best for him an dthe family

Original poster

jabberwocky · 27/02/2007 20:48

I haven't actually. What is it exactly?

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Califrau · 27/02/2007 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gothicmama · 27/02/2007 20:55

it's a free phone line for parents adn offers help and advice here

Original poster

jabberwocky · 27/02/2007 20:56

I second that!

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Original poster

jabberwocky · 27/02/2007 20:57

x-posts gothicmama, thanks so much for the link.

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lilybubble · 27/02/2007 21:12

Hi jabberwocky,

Just wanted to say that dd is 3y 7m and can throw spectacular wobblies over the smallest things. You are not alone! I must admit I was a little smug throughout 2, no terrible 2's for my angel! But she's making up for it by the bucketload! She will get cross over the smallest thing, and is just so mouthy, with an answer for everything. A friend with a daughter the same age is going through the same age, so am trying to comfort myself with the thought that it is just a phase........that old chestnut!

gothicmama · 27/02/2007 21:14

that's ok Jabber,

Original poster

jabberwocky · 27/02/2007 21:22

lilybubble, I have wondered if this wasn't payback for me feeling smug during the two's as well. Thought I had managed to get off easy

Dh has started saying "3 is the new 2"

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