Is this normal for the "horrible 3's"?

[jabberwocky]

Ds1 (3.6) has always been a handful. Since the day he was born I have had problems dealing with him. But the last 6 to 9 months have been unbelievably trying. To be fair ds2 was born in November and his nanny that he has had since he was 6 weeks old left in January. But the issues of his temper tantrums go back even before all of that.

Last night is a good example. A friend of ours opened a coffee shop with open mic night on Saturday nights. We went with the dcs and at first ds1 was having a good time and behaving tolerably well. I had to ask him to sit down and not run about once or twice but it wasn't a big deal. Then another little friend showed up and they started playing "chase". It was terribly disruptive and after asking him to stop for the second time I told him he would have to sit with me for a while. He then proceeded to lie down on the floor and refuse. I picked him up and put him on my lap but he was squirming to get down the whole time. Dh decided to take him outside for a bit. That only escalated things though until dh had to take him home.

I followed soon after - had to get ds2 together, etc - and walked in the house to find ds1 in full-blown tantrum screaming his head off, crying so hard that he would almost lose his breath and repeating things over and over. This is typical of his tantrums. Poor dh was just trying to ignore ds1 as nothing else had worked.

It is really frightening to see him like this. And for it to start sometimes over absolutely nothing scares me even more. It can be something as little as asking him if he wants to play outside instead of inside. He (imo) sometimes behaves as if he has had some type of trauma, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has not. I have started to wonder if I've done something wrong in my parenting. We try to give him attention and activities. We replaced the nanny with 2 half-days of pre-school and and one or two days a week at a babysitter's house. She is a close friend and has a 2 year old that ds1 really likes to play with.

I think he has thrown some similar tantrums at school but not at the babysitter's (yet). Of course, he has only been doing this for a month or so.

Dh is struggling with health issues, anxiety and depression and this is putting a strain on him - and our marriage. I keep thinking it's a phase but then have started to wonder if I should look into some counseling, either for ds1 or the whole family.

And, of course as I write this, he has been a perfect angel for the last hour or so.

I've read this stage is called "Threenager"! Am also going through this and my ds is three in April!

Jabber, dd4 (3.8) is exactly the same and I am pulling my hair out with her at the moment. She was a model child until about 6-8 weeks ago and like you we have ds1 (12 weeks) I expected some changes but not quite as bad as she is

We have contacted the school nurse who sorts out behaviour counsellors etc.... Will hopefully get to see someone soon. I am going to take all the kids though because the 7 yr old is also a real handful. I think maybe I also need to see someone about parenting advice. Even though I am on #5 and think I do quite well as a mum, I do think it gets tough at different stages and I am only human so some guidance would be great.

Jabber, as you know I have a dd (3.2) and dd2 is just over 13 weeks old.....everyone has said stuff I could say already, but just wanted to add: our p/t nanny went away for six weeks (back for a couple of days in the middle, but hardly counted) in December and January. Baby arrived end of November, and the five days I was in hospital we asked our nanny to come f/t just for that week..to give dd1 some stability. She has known and loved her since 14 months old.

I can see clearly now that she (nanny) is back, albeit very p/t, how much of an impact that made on dd1. Not only did Mummy 'go', both literally for a few days and then in the sense of being shared with a new baby and sleep deprived (and in hospital with sick baby) but Surrogage Mummy also vanished. Her world was truly rocked - I think the only reason her behaviour and night wakings got better fast was that her Dad has been able to work p/t for a couple of months and has spent loads of time with her. And even then, she really tested him - more than anyone - when she was feeling insecure.

Just saying all that to add to the posts that suggest that maybe its all really really normal for a 3 yr old whose family landscape has undergone a big change...new baby, old nanny gone, etc.

Rough though, eh....and don't let anyone fool you: there is no such thing as a totally well behaved threenager, unless they are a) medicated b) traumatized or c) lying about their age

xxx

It is nice to know that I'm not alone. Dh has taken ds1 to the babysitter's for the morning so I can have a bit of a break. I don't know how to act being not at work and not having ds1 around. The house is sooo quiet! I feel like I can breathe a bit.

eli and magnolia, thanks so much for coming over from the December thread. I had thought about posting there but then everyone's got other issues with their new babies on their minds and I wasn't sure it was the proper place to vent about this (extensively anyway )

magnolia, I have been seriously considering talking to my former therapist about this and maybe going in for a visit with ds1 in tow. The whole family would be ideal but not sure dh would do it. Like you, I wonder if there are coping strategies that she could suggest. I haven't had to take AD's for such a long while now that I hate to go back on them for this. I'd rather try something else first.

A couple of nights ago 2 glasses of wine worked wonders

Hi jabber, we're all popping over from december today! I feel for you, and know where you're coming from with ds1 (my ds1 is the same age as yours). I started to think several months ago that my ds was suffering from trauma also, and that I had done something really wrong, or that my depression since his birth had caused problems for him. He has tantrums just like the ones you describe, sometimes an hour or more and completely uncontrollable set off by absolutely nothing really! I'll calm him down and then 10 minutes later another will start.

It's reassuring in a way to read of other children being the same as my friends' children have never got this bad. And he's never behaved as badly for anyone else as he does for me and dp. What made me feel better is reading that children will always behave the worst for their parents because they can, because they are loved in spite of anything they do.

The only thing I've found to help (in addition to suggestions others have made) is routine, routine, routine and having lots of photos all round the house of ds1 smiling, of happy times so that I can look at them when he's in the midst of a tantrum and remember that he's not always like this!!! Simple, but it's helped me since he was a baby with colic several hours a day.

Like you, I'm fast discovering that having 2 is hard work and that our ds1's are having just as hard a time adapting as we are. I'm finding him a little difficult to love at times, I keep forcing my self to find little positive things about him & remember good times in the past.

I'm finding it very tough at times and I am getting a great deal less sleep than you are, I haven't gone back to work and my dp is healthy as a horse. Give yourself a break, you're doing the very best you can in a tough situation and you should be proud you're such a thoughtful and caring mum and wife.

Jabber, I am also worried about ending up back on AD's. Was very close to going to the gp a few days ago but put it off. Have given myself 2 weeks and if i'm not coping any better i think i might have to

Poopped over too as we're in the throes of tantrums almost every day... sometimes multiple times per day....

I get frustrated easily with this, especially when the screaming is accompanied by throwing things, general destruction of rooms, and hiting/biting....

In the moment, it is hard to remember hwy you love them so much. I find it really difficult to keep a lid on my own temper, especiallly when we're on our third or 4th tantrum in a day. Keep your chin up - you're doing what you can and the best you can in a situation that is certainly not ideal. And it's enough. You love your kids and they love you. Even with the tantrums, that's true.

Hope things get better soon love! xoxox

lol at Threenager!!!

Awww, it's so sweet of you guys to come over I'm actually misting up a little reading all your lovely posts.

I feel somewhat guilty saying it, but it was lovely having ds1 out of the house this morning. Ds2 seemed to sense it and took a 3 hour nap!!! I had thought i would catch up on some housework but took quite a long nap myself. I definitely feel refreshed.

AQ, I really like your idea of having the pictures around. Because it really is hard to remember how much you love them when things get really out of control. I have always heard people comment on how children behave better when not around their parents and darn if it's not true...