Is my 2 year old "normal" or badly behaved?

[AuntiePenguin]

DH and I disagree about our PFB's behaviour - I've asked family and friends who agree with me, but I'm aware they could be being polite so turning to the mumsnet jury!

I think DS is normal for an energetic 2 year old (just turned 2), DH thinks he's the worst behaved child he's ever seen and that we need to do something (unclear what!) to impose some discipline.

I'd welcome some honest opinions on DS's behaviour. Here are some examples:

• we went out for dinner, he sat at the table, ate well, but then got bored as we were still eating. There were no other customers, and the waiters know us and are very child friendly. He started climbing down from the chair and wandering around - he climbed up on to other chairs, tried to pour salt out of the containers (although he stopped that as soon as I told him to), lay on the floor, walked up and down pointing at animals on the wall and making the noises. We told him a few times to come back to the table and he would for a few minutes, then would climb down again. When DH tried to pick him up to bring him back, he'd run away laughing.

• he likes playgroups, but won't sit in the circle with the other children for song/story time, he just wanders off to play.

• he has tantrums about typical toddler nonsense (he wants the red cup not the blue one etc etc), and will shout, throw himself on the floor, cry. After a bit he'll calm down enough that I can get him interested in something else.

• he hits or kicks sometimes (only us, not other children), and laughs about it, doesn't seem to understand it's hurting us.

So....any thoughts? Is this normal or is he actually a terror and I'm just oblivious?

Definitely a normal 2 year old! They are learning. You aren't just sitting by and letting him get away with it all, you are trying to manage it. And it will pass as he learns it's wrong to bite etc. Some won't be like this of course but all kids are different. No way will my 2 year old sit still at story time!

Sounds normal, but you do have to train him up a bit, and be strict on no hitting. Has he had his 2 year check with health visitor? I raised 'managing behaviour' with mine, not that I thought my child had a problem but that I needed advice on how to be consistent and help him learn and not get angry, and she gave some good advice having observed him at home. It's not always obvious what to do!

Honestly, he sounds badly behaved to me. And if your DH thinks he's badly behaved, then that has to count for more than the opinions of strangers on the internet.

I wouldn't have allowed the behaviour at the restaurant. Climbing on chairs, lying on the floor and pouring the salt out is a total no-no, even if you were the only ones in the restaurant.

The hitting/kicking needs to be addressed too. He's old enough to know that that's not on.

Yep :P normal!

Not acceptable in my opinion.

At the table he probably needs some entertaining. Conversation, games, can you see this, that etc. We often take a book or two.

Playgroup - my DS doesn't like circle time, but if he doesn't join in, he had to sit quietly, he didn't get to play. I don't feel it's fair on the other kids who are 'behaving'.

Tantrumming - yeah, that happens.

Hitting and kicking - hell, no! Naughty step, sent to room, whatever you use, use it. That's not on.

Really interesting views, thank you all.

Sounds like he's in the range of normal but that we need to be stricter/more consistent about the rules and boundaries.

If I'm honest, I'm really struggling with how to impose those rules - DH and I both grew up with parents who hit to impose discipline and obviously I'm not going to do that but my "strict voice" doesn't seem to be cutting it.

I'm not sure naughty step is going to do much, he seems very content to sit looking around for a while.

Totally normal. And to the poster who says they've been strict with discipline so their child is well behaved...ha!

One of my friends did the same. Oldest child is a total dream. Never a moments trouble. Then dd2 arrived. Still a total ball of tantrums.

It's totally within the spectrum of normal (ignore posters who think normal means 'the same as my child'). My DS has always been at the naughtier end of normal and it's sometimes been hard work. He used to hate sitting in circle time at groups, but now he's five he is fine with that sort of stuff at school.

Yeah pretty normal behaviour, but as you say, doesn't mean you shouldn't try and change how he copes with not getting his own way. The violence towards others with laughing is the most concerning. I'd be doing some kind of time out for that.
Hilarious BobbieDog that you think being strict has prevented tantrums! Your DD obviously isn't naturally one for reacting in that way.

Auntie the way I've parented so far is consequence led. As mentioned upthread, between 18-24 months I found things tough with ds's behaviour and to be honest, I felt a bit out of control. Until one day I had a revelation that I was literally the only person who was ever going to change his behaviour. I know it sounds stupid, but I think it was the first time I honestly realised what 'parenting' was. Anyway, what worked for us was consequences. So things like, if he didn't want to put his shoes on, fine, but then he couldn't go to the park. His decision. If he didn't want to have a nap, fine, but then he'd be too tired to see his friends later. His decision. If he hit mummy, then I would take away his favourite toy for the rest of the day. Things like that - basically he was always given the info on what the consequence would be for behaviour I didn't want. I'm possibly blessed with a fairly rational child, but it really worked for us and turned behaviour round pretty quickly. We still use it now. And if it does work, the feeling of being a positive parent is really uplifting.

Also agree hugely with pp who said some posters can't see the difference between 'normal' and 'same as my child'. Obviously tantruming and hitting is undesirable but to think that a huge number of children don't go through those phases is ludicrous. It's now down to how you deal with it, that's what counts.

I agree with what many others have said - within the realms of normal but as long as you are actively working on improving the behaviour, most importantly the violent parts. That needs a consistent and immediate response - whether time out/naughty step or consequence (if you do that again we will go straight home/stop playing with). Then once they get the idea a bit and know it is wrong no warning, just "we are going home because you hit mummy." It's a total pain cutting short nice activities but it absolutely has worked wonders with my DD (who was hitting us to start and then started regularly pushing other kids at around 18 months, by the age of 2 almost never does).

At restaurants/cafes I only ever let my 2.5 year old sit in high chairs. Some would say she's too old but she won't be sitting in a proper chair out and about until I am 100% certain she wouldn't wander off. And I never get her down from a high chair until the second we are ready to leave. I also have a tonne of books, stickers, colouring with me on every outing! She's not perfect but regularly will sit calmly for 1.5 hours if we want to while we have dinner and cha together as a family. At least one of us is always on entertaining mode for her though. And I do sometimes bribe her with apples (she's bonkers for them) if she sits nicely

I often wonder if mine is a nightmare toddler but we get a lot of unprompted praise, often from strangers, about her behaviour so I've come to realise I must be doing something right! I'm sure you are the same OP but definitely keep on eye on getting a two year old in check now because I hear three and four year olds are much trickier...!

Auntie - naughty step didn't work for us but weirdly picking her up and putting her standing in the same place every time did. Somehow sitting took away the impact for mine a bit. I think it's also the picking up and moving away from the thing they were doing/playing with that works - but it might take a few goes to 'get it' so I'd almost decide on a plan an use it consistently for a week or two before deciding?

Also taking a favourite toy (one warning first - often the warning works as well if not better than the actually taking away!) was a big and immediate success here. At this age their memory is so short that I tend to give it back an hour or two later when they show nice behaviour e.g. being really gentle with a pet.

That's one other thing too actually, I went totally OTT on praising the stuff I liked (particularly the inverse of the stuff you are trying to change) e.g. "you made daddy so happy when you stroked his hair gently like that". Seemed to really work on my attention-seeking DD and stopped me feeling like all that I did was tell her off!

Good luck, it's a minefield!

Good advice Timefor2

Well within normal. Often as well it's personality DS has had more tantrums in a day than DD did in her entire toddlerhood and he used to kick out in frustration she never did.

For me understanding the behaviour is key. Take the dinner he got bored and went to entertain himself how he could and the salt shakers looked fun. Adults understand that is not how a restaurant works he doesn't. A lot of 2 year old behaviour is instinctive we are not born knowing societal rules and expectations of behaviour (how could we they change) so consistency with rules and boundaries and modelling the behaviour is vital.

Yep sounds totally normal x

Thanks so much everybody. I've shown DH and think he's feeling reassured that we're at least in the normal range (he really doesn't know any other small children, and admits he was being unrealistic!). Loads of helpful ideas here about discipline as well, we're going to sit down at the weekend and try to agree some consistent rules and approaches so fingers crossed!

Normal

Sounds good AuntiePenguin. They just need consistency and to know natural consequences of their actions, for the most part.

I agree, with on the naughty extreme of the normal range, some of his behaviour is normal, but some is not. His behaviour in the restaurant is unacceptable, but that is down to you rather than him, many people simply wouldn't take a child to a restaurant if they are going to behave like that. It is up to you to contain and entertain him.

kicking hitting and running away laughing, this needs dealing with. He needs discipline, and no, your voice isn't going to do anything. Your voice will only have an effect if he understands that your voice is the first warning, and what comes after that is not nice.

My 21 month is similar but he doesn't hit/bite/lash out and doesn't tantrum either. But he will not sit still for story time or at a restaurant so we just avoid going out to eat with him until he's older. When we do go to a restaurant with him one of us eats first and then the other goes because we don't want him wandering around annoying other people.

The behaviour itself is completely 'normal' but does not conform to society's expectations, so your role as a parent is to show him what he is doing wrong, and what to do instead.

In a way, you are both right, but I do think you need to enforce firmer and more consistent boundaries. The highchair advice is particularly good IMO, toddlers wandering around restaurants is a pet peeve of mine. They will sit still if you restrain them, if you are unable/they are unwilling to do this, then you need to stay at home until they can.

On the bright side though, you have enough insight to question where the boundaries should lie - many parents just wouldn't care enough to even ask.

Sounds like my 2 year old

Thanks everybody - and yes I agree taking him to a restaurant was a mistake, at the moment no amount of entertainment/distraction seems to keep him in his chair (too big for highchairs) so I think we'll just need to eat at home till he's a bit calmer in public.

When I read your first post I was wondering if your DH knew many young children!

There's some really good advice above, so I won't repeat it. We've found the main things to remember are;

Get down to their level when praising or disciplining.

Try to prevent bad behaviour by distracting them, so engage with them doing something interesting (books/toys/games) so they don't run off in a restaurant.

You have to get involved. If you just expect them to behave it won't work, you have to show what good behaviour looks like.

Plus go easy on yourselves, nobody gets it right all the time!