Help needed in order to allow dd2 (3yrs) to continue sharing our bed.

[Wills]

DD2 has always shared our bed and until the last 6 months its been fine. In the last 8 months we've moved house and had ds. We've moved a long way from dh's work which means he has a 2 hour commute in the morning and 2.5 hour commute in the evening. But the move has enabled us to live in a wonderful house and that I have been able to give up work and be a SAHM for the first time. BUT he gets up at 5.00 am and leaves the house at 5.30. This can't change if he wants to be home before 8.00 pm. dd2 is disturbed by dh getting up (and he's really really tried hard to be quiet), so that she's normally up around 5.45. When dd2 gets up (she's 3) somehow the rest of the house has to get up including ds and dd1. She knows exactly how to get her own way in my desperation in keeping ds and dd1 asleep and is now regularly getting away with murder. I've had to bring her bedtime forward as she's shattered, dd1 is tired, ds has a sleeping pattern all over the place and I'm tired too. I'm not not sleeping with my dh (we tried that for 2 weeks and we felt like we were barely seeing each other).

So.... Any thoughts about what I can do that don't involve me moving her out of our bed.

[prufrock]

Yes mummymagic - though I hadn't seen your post before I posted - but I defer to your quicker posting of a jointly brilliant idea

[mummymagic]

salright, just chuffed I actually said something sensible (and thought I was invisible)

[donnie]

at what age do you see your dd moving to her own room/bed ? it's a serious question.

[mummymagic]

Oh, and while I remember, I don't even attempt to get baby back to sleep til dp has left the house, so she plays (quietly on me or in cot) and then she comes back for cuddle/sleep after he has said goodbye (was too hard to try while he is getting ready - there is some sort of law that says the quieter you are trying to be, the louder you actually are )

[kittywaitsfornumber6]

I'm sorry, but I seriously don't get this. I saw it yesterday and have mulled it over.
So your dh gets up and leaves at some god unearthly hour, returns 15 hours later?? He has to share his bed with a 3 year old, be mindful of her whilst getting ready for a really long day? A day that brings in money so that you can live in a lovely house and be a sahm? The other children suffer because she is in your bed still. So everyone suffers because you want to keep her in your bed. TBH I am simply amazed.
Why do you want this child in your bed? Everyone in your household is suffering and you want to keep her there?
I think you should be more considerate , especially of your dh. He needs to sleep, he has a very long day.
I am simply amazed to the point where I wonder if this is a bit of a wind up?
I don't want to sound critical, I guess I am, but I SO do not understand anything of the thinking going on here.

[dejags]

Wills, I think the obvious solution is plain for all to see (sorry if I am repeating, I haven't read the whole thread).

Your three year old is more important in the family hierarchy than your husband. He knows it and clearly so does she - not to mention your other children - how do they feel about the special attention she receives?

I am absolutely and utterly pro co-sleeping - when there is a mutual benefit for all concerned. This is clearly NOT the case in your house.

Your DH is sacrificing 100+ hours of his week to provide for you all. The least you can do is stand up to your daughter and show him that he, too, is important. He deserves to be able to sleep in his bed, get up without fear in his heart and go out to work without worrying about who he is disturbing (at the very, very least).

The only solution is to move your daughter to her own bed, in her own room (or to share). But I think you know that.

[xoxo]

My advise is - get your dd absolutely shattered by 5pm. then fill her up on pasta, have a 20 mins bubble bath and then bed.
after that she will sleep anywhere, I promise.

I have the world's most stubborn 4 yr old and went through this. He was allowed to 'decorate' the room i.e. choose his own duvet cover, paint pictures for the walls etc, put his nmae on teh door so it was truly HIS room. Then it was just my job to get him so knackered that he slept there.

good luck. YOur dh does need the sleep. Why not cosleep at weekend only - still keeping it special?

[mummymagic]

Hmmm... I totally agree that the husband needs his sleep but he is getting up anyway and Wills hasn't said that he sleeps badly because of their arrangement. It sounds like this 3 year old would take the disturbance as a cue to get up and wake everybody up wherever she was at the moment...

I do think he needs to be able to just get on with getting ready but that will be noisy regardless of where he is doing it, Wills will be disturbed if he is noisy in the bedroom, and everyone will hear when he is outside so he WILL disturb people, thats just what happens!

Obviously if Mr Wills is not happy with the sleeping arrangement then they need to discuss it but it doesn't sound like he is (prob just a bit pissed off having to leave the house at such an ungodly hour)...

[Jimjams2]

I think I'd take the fight on and get your dd in her own bed- not sure that growing up thinking bed is scary is good- and no point being tied to a philosophy if it makes you miserable.

On the other hand...... I'm not convinced you're doing this for pjilosophical reasons- more because keeping dd in bed with you gives you the most sleep. In which case (and this will be unpopular) kick your dh out.

Ds1 is currently waking up at 5am by the latest- sometimes its 2am sometimes 3am, although 5am on thedot is the most common - I have absolutely no way of getting him to stay in his room so he comes into our bed. There is no room for him, dh and me (he's 7- ds1 that is). So currently whilst we're in this getting up in the middle of the night and refusing/being unable to go back to sleep routine dh is in a different room. Once ds1 gets back into a sensible pattern (or social services agree to fund a Safespace- somewhere safe he can't get out of and will hoppefully like!) then dh will come back into our bed.

TBH I think you either need to tackle it, in which case make the decision when to do it and go ahead, or dh sleeps somewhere else.

[Beetrootccio]

4 1/2 hour commute - my god - is a lovely house really worth that?

[Beetrootccio]

Maybe he should stay near work two or three nights a week - that way everyone will gt a decent nights sleep

[kittywaitsfornumber6]

I think if anyone has to leave the marital bed, and clearly someone must, it must not be the man. He goes out, works his socks off, provides an awful lot. He should certainly be the one who gets the big comfy bed and not be fannying about in the morning worried about waking a three year old up. If wills is not able to separate from her dd then they should both sleep elsewhere. Hopefully though she will make the only sensible choice there is to make.

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[mummymagic]

I sort of agree. In our house, dp's sleep is priority (as we can catch up during day). However, dp prefers it and sleeps best when I am not in and out of bed so dd sleeps on my side, next to the wall and we all sleep better this way. So its whatever works for your family I think.

Wills, I think you have to work out what it is you actually want and then figure out how to get it - if it really is just 'kids back to sleep when dad's gone' then why disrupt a happy sleeping arrangement if not necessary?

[adath]

Never read all the post sorry. I am a co-sleeper and tbh if I was in that situation I would be tackling how to get dd to sleep all night in her won bed because this arrangement at the moment is affecting the whole house. Your other children must be knackered by all thia and it is not fair on them.
If you feel the issue is being scared in her own room can she not share with her siblings? Have you considered a sibling bed where they can all or 2 of them go if the want?

You said she seems surprised in the morning she is there and not getting a star or whatever she won't be sleep walking she will be getting up still drowsy but awake enough to move rooms but still really in a half asleep state and possibly barely remember in the morning. I do things like this all the time cannot tell you half the time how often ds wakes up cause I can only vaguely remember.
When she is wide awake and alert at night she is looking forward to getting a sart or whatever in the morning but when she stirs in the night and half asleep it has become habit second nature really to move into your room.

I really think you and dh either sleep apart so that he can get up in the morning without disturbing everyone or you need to bite the bullet and tackle getting her in her own bed all night or allowing her in when your dh gets up as long as she rest quietly until time to get up because this is adversly affecting the whole family now and that outweighs anything else right now. These things only work if they are the best situation for your family and this really isn't

[Wills]

Can I just say this about the commute situation......

My dh is wonderful and I love him v.v.v. much. BECAUSE I loved him I agreed to move house (from all my friends and family) to a place at least 90 minutes drive from my friends and family whilst pregnant with our third child, to somewhere where I knew absolutely not a single person in the world! Given the commute I gave up my high flying career in the city as I did not want both of us to be at least 2 hours away from our children so for the first time ever I became a SAHM (something else I found extremely scarey). This has been absoultely the most frightening thing I have ever done and why did I do this??? Because my dh was desperate to live by the sea in a bigger house (i.e. a four bed house instead of a two up two down). We've moved to Ramsgate where in 3 years time hopefully the high speed trains will start and his commute will be 1hr each way. Please believe me when I say this was his want and I agreed to try it because he was so desperate to do it. (7 months on we are all extremely happy).

As for his sleeping..... I go to bed at 21:30, he wanders in to bed around 11.00 and gets up at 5.00. He also does this at weekends. DH is one of those people who doesn't need a whole lot of sleep. His sleeping is not the problem.

[blueshoes]

Hi Will, just wanted to say that I totally understand your situation with dd2. My dd is 3.5 and still sleeps with either dh or I. She knows little girls have their own bed and likes playing in her friends' and cousin's beds. When I ask if she would like one of her own, she goes "yes"! But then I explain she has to sleep there all night "on her own", she says "ok ... but with Mummy/Daddy/Ds".

It would break my heart to tuff her out right now, because she will fight it, as she has fought for everything that mattered to her in her life. It might seem a trivial need to an adult, but trust a mother's instinct that she is not ready, not just yet.

I agree with others about moving dd3 to another room to share with one of her older siblings. I presume a bed in the same room or a mattress on the floor won't help because dh's shuffings will still wake her.

And contrary to what other posters seem to think, this is not about dh not getting enough sleep. he seems to be doing fine. It is dd3 being woken up, not the other way round.

[blueshoes]

Hi Wills, cross-posted with you.

You made a huge sacrifice for your dh and your family. Sorry you have to justify it on this thread. You go, girl!

[Philomytha]

Applying lateral thought here: get a bigger bed, so there's more space between you all and less likelihood of disturbing each other? Does your daughter sleep between you and your husband or on the edge, and would rearranging the way you all lie make it less likely for her to wake up? If daughter was on the edge, then you, then your husband nearest the door, that might work.

[Wills]

Blueshoes - thanks

Phil - errr we have a super king already she's just a light sleeper! Mind you she loves the size of the bed

[kittywaitsfornumber6]

Wills I understand a bit more of your situation since your last post. It is good that your dh is not as put out as it would at first seem.
However, it is still the case that your sleeping arrangments are affecting the other children. Tbh I am not a huge fan of co- sleeping. I have done so with my babies when they were new and occasionally with them when they were older ( on a temp basis), but I believe your bed should be your bed. A space for adults where you get to do adult 'things', not something I could do with a child in the bed.

I find the idea of keeping a child in the narital bed somewhat strange. Yes I know in other cultures etc etc, but we are not like some other culures who all live together under one roof. Our homes have different rooms and our cultural set up is different.
Despite the fact that I find co-sleeping with a child not great, I am aware that others love it. Fine if everyone is happy, but in your situation it is clearly not working out, as others have said.

[Wills]

Wow Kitty - just seen your profile. Wish I had the courage to go to six.

Its funny but I would never have said that I was a strong advocate to co-sleeping. Just didn't really have an opinion tbh. dd1 has always slept in her own bed (she finds it too noisey sleeping next to her snoring daddy ). And we're just starting to think about decorating ds's room ready for him to be moved into it (he's in his cot next to us at the mo). Because dd2 starts the night in her own bed dh normal cuddle quite happily etc. She comes in, in the middle of the night - normally between 2.00 and 5.00.

The thing is that if I did move her to her own bed if she still wakes early (of which I have no doubt) then I suspect that the whole house will still have to get up. She goes into dd1's room if I chase her out of mine and when ds moves to his own room I've no doubt she'll go into his.

[Enid]

well this is a no brainer

move her


dd2 hates going to sleep in her own room too and used to cmoe in every night

I did have some lentilly idea that she was scared - did a thread on here about it.

Countess drac suggested seriousy bribery. Id didnt think that was the isshoo. anyway I bribed her with an angelina ballerina pop up book and she has slept happily in her bed for the last 10 days

[Bozza]

Is that serious bribery in your house then, enid?

[Beetrootccio]

I used to love it when serous bribery was a n angelina ballerina book - now is is 50 quid if you get a distinction