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4 year old turning into Kevin the teenager, how should I react?

30 replies

WideWebWitch · 05/06/2002 09:06

I'm hoping everyone will tell me it's a phase and he'll grow out of it, but wondered if anyone could help. My ds is 4 years 8 months and has suddenly turned from sweet loving cheerful boy to stroppy uncooperative boy almost overnight.
Examples: kissing and cuddles are yuk, I hate you and don't want you to be my mummy, I don't like you, Shut Up, Go Away, I want to be dead etc etc.

Now I'm sure this is a phase and quite usual but I still find it hard. One for the loss of my little sweetie (I know it has to happen, but...) and two because I'm not sure how best to handle it. So far I've used my usual tactic of ignoring bad behaviour and praising good, but I find "Shut Up" and "I hate you" hard to deal with, ditto really bad manners. Is it testosterone this early? Surely not? How long will this last? Any other ideas? Should I ignore or tell him off when it's very bad and rude? Have been calm so far but any tactics for dealing with this would be appreciated. BTW he starts school in Sept so may be worrying about it slightly but other than that there have bee no changes in his life that I can see. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

OP posts:
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cherry · 05/06/2002 09:36

wickedwaterwitch I have had similar comments from DD (4yrs 6mnths), it's not all of the time but now and again she comes out with "i hate you", "i dont like you", "i dont love you" and I've also had the "I want to be dead".

The only thing that has worked (the telling off or ignoring does NOT work with DD), is when she's said it, tell her it wasn't nice and go to her room.
At first I had to physically carry her screaming to her room, I'd lay her on the bed and just leave her there, now she'll pull a face or say its not fair, but off she'll go. She always comes back very sheepish and apologetic and full of "I love you"s and cuddles, and because she's had that little bit of time out she is easier to talk to and I try to explain that it wasn't a nice thing to say, she wouldnt like it said to her etc. You could also ask at this point "Why did you say X ?", if you think it would help.
I dont think this will stop your ds from saying these things but it may make it easier for you to deal with because as you say its not easy.

As for him starting school, I dont know exactly what your worries are about it, but I think if anything it will help calm him down and possibly bring an end to it when he is spending all day with other children and hopefully using his energy up there instead!

Hope this helps and however much it hurts or upsets you he loves you more than anything in the world, dont think for a second he really means it!

cherry · 05/06/2002 09:39

Last line of that didn't come up for some reason!
It IS a phase and he WILL grow out of it, well done for staying calm and hope things improve x

Marina · 05/06/2002 09:47

www, I don't have personal experience of this yet, but friends with little boys say that they do get a testosterone surge at around four - this is supposed to be one of the very persuasive arguments for starting formal education for both sexes (but especially boys) at six plus. One little four year old we know is not far off hanging around in his room all day and demanding to paint it black. He also hates his parents having previously been on the shy side but very loving. He is dh's godson and we were sorely tempted to get him a Nirvana CD for his birthday.
His parents are dealing with it by a combination of gently ignoring the scowling and moping but invoking the "house rules" (as in, we don't call people "stupid smellies" in this house) for insults, and praising like mad when he does perk up. His mum especially is finding it rather upsetting but knowing it's a specific phase has helped us all treat him with sensitivity and tolerance when required.

tigermoth · 05/06/2002 10:52

www, I think you have to be firm when 'attitude' raises its ugly head. Even if your son is not being downright naughty - insulting words, general sillyness, dumb insolence etc can be very upsetting. This behaviour could also lose him friends and invites back to other people's houses later on when he starts school.

If my son does any of the above, I say I won't have 'attitude' from him, and he can go to his room until he can be nice again. If he professes ignorance or says it is not fair, I don't go into lengthy explanations or justifications. He certainly knows what he is doing. This is one situation when I don't embark on lots of one to one talking. He will not be receptive to reason right then - too bolshie.

When he eventually comes down, he is a changed boy. If I need to reinforce the message, I do so when he is being nice again, but keep the words brief.

IME a show of attutude from your child gives rise to a situation when you, as the adult, have to pull rank and show you are in charge - end of!

WideWebWitch · 05/06/2002 12:21

Thanks all. Cherry at the Nirvana CD! sorry to ask more, but I know if I tell ds to go to his room he either a) won't go and will defy and his attitude worsens or b) will come straight out again, attitude intact or possibly worse if I forcibly put him there. Confrontation seems often to make his behaviour deteriorate further but I agree that I should be firm and in charge. How can I make him go to his room? Short of locking him in I'm sure that he won't stay there. When I've threatened to take something away it sometimes works, sometimes doesn't and when it doesn't he says "I don't want that anyway". Sorry to ask for more advice, but dp asked me to ask this additional question and he's right, we have a feeling that getting him to go to his room will be another battle.

PS I'm pretty relaxed as a parent but ds is very wilful. I can be firm (honestly) but I know this will be a tough one to crack. Ta.

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WideWebWitch · 05/06/2002 12:22

I meant Marina, sorry.

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fairy · 05/06/2002 16:29

I couldn't believe it when I saw the title to this thread! As at the moment my father has re-named our ds in honour of Kevin the teenager!

Though reading through I'm a tad concerned as he is only 3yrs and 7 months! Argh, its when he shrugs his shoulders and sighs 'its not fair' !

At least I know I'm not the only one with this now, and for that a big thank you!

Tinker · 05/06/2002 19:40

When my daughter does this, IF I'm in the right mood, I just sing ' I love you' in a really annoying voice to wind her up. But, I get it all the time - she is the only child now that refuses to kiss a parent when I leave her in school. I actually get shooed away with a dismissive hand gesture. And when I collect her in the evening, I either get no reaction and she carries on drawing or whatever or I get 'Go away'. I think her childminder is more embarrased than me.

They're great aren't they!!!!!!!!

maryz · 05/06/2002 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mollipops · 06/06/2002 06:52

www, it must be so hard to hear these things from your ds, esp as he was affectionate and loving before this phase (and it is a phase) started. When my dd hit this phase I was in mourning for my lost "baby". Currently (5.5yrs) we are going through the "boys are yukky and girls are nice" phase...

Around age 5 is a bit like the terrible 2's everyone talks about...a phase of rebellion and emotional confusion. Except of course a 5yr old is far more verbal than a 2yr old, so instead of throwing themselves on the floor or banging their heads on the wall, they use words to try to upset/challenge you. And even though they use words, they still lack emotional maturity to express what they are really feeling.

As tigermoth says though, you do need to pull rank and let him know this is not on, he cannot speak to you that way, no matter how angry or upset he is feeling. If he says "I hate you" or "I don't love you" tell him you know that's not true and that he shouldn't say it. Don't let him see that it hurts you. Remaining calm is good, but letting him get away with it by ignoring it (if it is becoming worse not better) is probably not the best thing to do. He needs to have some sort of consequence for this behaviour. You can start with something small, like no TV/gameboy etc for an hour. If he persists or returns to the name-calling/rudeness whatever, then it goes to no TV/gameboy for the full day, then no friends to visit for a week, and so on...you will know what it will bother him to lose (he might say he doesn't care, but he will.) Make sure you follow thru with the threat - even if he is a perfect angel in the meantime - or he will know he can get around you! And don't threaten to take away something you know you will cave in on, ie birthday parties or special family days you have already planned.

Tell him what is going to happen in future if he behaves this way (be specific), and discuss with him in one of his calmer times (!) a list of possible "consequences" and print them out and put them somewhere (yes, even though he can't read yet, but it is a reminder for both of you). He will know when he has pushed the boundaries and what to expect. At first he will try you out, so be tough, stay calm and stick to the plan. Oh and make sure dh knows the deal too! You can get thru this!!! HTH

tigermoth · 06/06/2002 09:45

ahh yes, getting them to go to their rooms. A difficult one once they are too heavy to lift up the stairs, though you'd be surprised how much writhing and kicking bad boy weight I have firmly carried up the wooden path to bedsville when I have been pushed to my limits....

Www, hope you don't see this as a cop out, but what I do is threaten to phone daddy if my son won't go to his room. In our house this works. I hasten to add my husband is not an ogre but has a loving relationship with my son. Alternatively, I have threatened to tell his headmaster or class teacher. If my son tries to come down the stairs once up, I repeat these threats. I have had to phone up dh sometimes. Remember, you can always 'fake' a phone call if there is no person at the other end.

As Mollipops has outlined, a progressive threat to withhold a favourite toy is also very effective.

IMO it is really important to get your son to do as you say, and accept a suitable punishment/time out when he is being mega difficult - and keep your temper while doing so.

I say to myself when I feel like the witch mother from hell, if I'm not firm now, what will happen when I face a misbehaving 11 year old? He'll grow up thinking he can get away with everything. Also, once up in his room, the benefit is immediate. Nine times out of ten, when I eventually call him down, he is much calmer.

BTW, IMO that's one small problem with threatening to withold a toy or treat - in the short term, it winds him up. He needs space alone to change his mood. I sometimes think he feels like a runaway train - he actually wants to stop being bolshie, but while he's facing me, he can't do this.

Azzie · 06/06/2002 11:34

This is a really scary thread! My ds is 4 3/4 and is a real sweetie at the moment (a bit excitable and loud at times, but otherwise lovely and affectionate). Is it inevitable that he is going to change into a monster any day now?

WideWebWitch · 07/07/2002 20:45

Just thought I'd update anyone who's interested. First a confession: I am a complete F*wit!

Guess what was at the root of this? By Playstation. I feel very stupid for not having worked out that there was a correlation between ds' bad behaviour and his Playstation use. He only played football games on it and not even that much but... although we did lots of other healthy activities like long walks in the country, Pre-school, football in the park etc he was becoming obsessed with wanting to be on the Playstation.

So we took it away last weekend saying it had been lent to a friend and the difference in ds' behaviour is awesome. Before this I had also been following most of the advice given to me here i.e "we will not tolerate bad attitude, go to your room immediately". We did follow through with all threatened punishments if the attitude didn't improve.

BUT I still firmly believe that the Playstation was at the root of all his evil. He has been a changed child this past week (polite, sweet, colouring in for goodness sake!)...the damn thing is never coming back! I do feel stupid since I bet many of you wouldn't have even contemplated letting a 4 (nearly 5) yo near one anyway. But at the time I thought he loves it, the games seem to be fun, it's only football, where's the harm?

I'm very relieved and you have been warned

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mollipops · 08/07/2002 09:14

www, so glad you hit on the answer, and don't be so hard on yourself!

tigermoth · 08/07/2002 10:39

www, we don't have a playstation as yet - after reading your message, perhaps we never, ever will.

Just as well our addiction to mumsnet doesn't make us stroppy with our loved ones. Apart from the odd 'not now, I'm busy' I think I'm the same. But perhaps my son would tell a different story and is longing to say to me someone has 'borrowed' my laptop.

PamT · 08/07/2002 10:51

I've got a 9 yr old Kevin and a 6 yr old Kevin in training. We don't have a playstation either so I'm hoping that mine will eventually grow out of it, maybe in another 10-15 years when they have left home?!

sobernow · 27/07/2002 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eve · 27/07/2002 20:46

My DS went through a vey bad patch of behaviour a few months ago, at about 2 3/4 of age, he was being very cheeky, defiant and just not a very nice child.

My DH declared it was the video's he was watching...the Lion King 1 & 2 which he loved, as they have a lot of fighting & encouragement to kill in them and he removed them. I thought DH was daft, but within a few days there was a big improvement in behaviour. Now all Disney videos are banned in our house and we are very careful about what he watches, reads etc.

WideWebWitch · 28/07/2002 09:52

Eve, I seem to remember that ds was very keen on calling everyone 'Murderer' in the loudest voice imaginable after watching the Lion King a lot. I bet people wondered where he got the word from...

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bloss · 29/07/2002 02:52

Message withdrawn

bloss · 29/07/2002 02:52

Message withdrawn

WideWebWitch · 29/07/2002 19:33

Bloss

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WideWebWitch · 07/10/2002 07:50

Well this did seem to calm down but he's just turned 5 and it's all rearing its extremely ugly head again. Any more advice?

There's lots of violence (he threatens me doesn't actually always follow through but sometimes will throw a chair or something), lots of bad attitude, rudeness, spoilt attitude etc. We have tried to ignore bad and praise good and to explain what is not acceptable. I have taken toys away sometimes and he does get sent to his room sometimes too but DP and I are really stressed and worried that he's turning into a little s*.

Family were here at the w/e and he really showed me up esp compared to their kids (some were same age as him and were angelic). Also woke in middle of night last night and screamed the place down saying he had an earache but refused calpol for an hour. Seemed to have calm moments talking about it so wasn't sure whether he did have ear ache or was trying it on. Forced Calpol down eventually.

Dp and I have decided to start a bad behaviour book where we write down every tantrum and bit of bad behaviour and after 3 events written in the book in a day something (toy etc) gets taken away. We are going to do this in conjunction with a star chart for good behaviour so we're not just noticing the bad but encouraging the good too.

He started school in Sept do you think this is it? It's a strain being good all day so now he's naughtier before and after school? Any other creative suggestions appreciated. I think the book will help us see how bad it is and when it happens too so it's for him to see that action is taken and for us to monitor it all. Thanks in advance. (and Ps didn't ever come back, so it's not that)Just read this back and no time to edit but realise it sounds like I'm only bothered because he showed me up in front of family - not the case, it's been stressing us for a while! Is he normal or do I have a sociopath on my hands?

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Azzie · 07/10/2002 08:24

www, my ds started school in September also (we're now in his 5th week of school) and although he's not behaving quite like your ds (yet...) he's definitely still a bit unsettled by the new regime, and still coming home quite tired. So your ds's behaviour probably does have something to do with starting school, IMHO.

ScummyMummy · 07/10/2002 17:38

Uh-oh. Sounds hard, WWW. Do agree with Azzie that school probably has quite a lot to do with it- and it's quite a transistional time for the whole family really if you've gone back to work. Transistion = stress = bad behaviour, according to many folk and I do think there's some truth in that.
Must admit I'm not so convinced by the bad behaviour book (except as a monitoring tool) but maybe that reflects a quite ludicrous idealism on my part?! Have you tried a star chart alone already and found it wanting? I've heard they can be amazingly effective and was surprised recently to find that my 3.5 yr old was well able to grasp the concept when we were going through a bit of a hiccup at his nursery. Not sure if it'll have any long term effect now that the "prize" has been deservedly claimed but at least I know he can do it now! I hope things get better for you soon, anyway.