Use of strollers

[Alliepally]

Posted a message earlier regarding getting my 4 year old dd around disney without her stroller which we abandoned at Christmas - went cold turkey. This prompted some discussion regarding use of stroller (or non-use) with dh. I thought it was going okay, she is managing to walk around the farm, zoo, etcshops with little complaining but dh tells me tonight that his mother, who looks after dd one day a week, is struggling without it and would like the stroller back. I am really reluctant and think that if dd has the stroller once a week then she may complain with me when I make her walk. Need advice - feel like the baddie!!

i thought a four year old is a pre schooler

If a 4 year old doesn't need reins, then a four year old doesn't need a pushchair, surely?

Ok, from a different perspective.

If a four year old's friends see her in a pushchair, they will call her a baby. They are not naturally reticent at four, neither are they understanding of the needs of the elderly.

My son started school at 4yrs 1 month.
(summer baby)

So a four yr old can be a school child .

Hmm - how many people put their 4 year olds in cars so they don't have to slow down for them, I wonder? I expect an awful lot do. That wouldn't make it more right, of course - but what about a walk with a pushchair to put shopping in and to use as an occasional sit down, versus a car trip all the way there and back? The child going out with nana and pushchair will do better there, I think, than the one swept out and back in the car.

It might not be massively child friendly to sit a child in a pushchair for a rest... umm no, hang on, why is that not child friendly? Who says you only do it when you can't slow down for them or in situations where it's automatically worse for them? And how does it actually harm them? Even the teasing thing will be pretty unlikely for 4 year olds, I mean unless your child has pretty nasty friends and they're in the buggy all the time (which no one's suggesting, afaik).

By the way, does this apply to buggy boards, too?

mum used to take the pushchair to the shops for YEARS after me and bro were walking, she put the shoping in it until bro or I were big enough to help carry some of it. I think when we were both at school she still took it.
It became our paper round caddy when we were older.

fireflighty, do you ever listen to the way 4 year old girls talk to each other? they can be vile.

And this isn't about cars, or buggy boards, it's about granny wanting the pushchair back because she finds it easier. Which is nothing to do with what the four year old needs.

And generally people use cars when they are doing something that you can't walk to, like a £100 supermarket shop, or something like that.

Actually, I don't know what people use cars for, probably they do get used too much.

Indiscriminate plonking would be completely unacceptable, and insensitive use when other children might be there. But it's not obvious to me that it's 100% black and white, that granny's needs are automatically invalid, that the child will even need to be sitting in the pushchair at all in this situation (we don't know that it isn't just a shopping issue), or that the child will automatically be harmed by having the buggy for a bit longer whether or not she occasionally sits in it. If it was me, I'd find out a bit more - especially if I was getting the childcare for free. I might end up saying no, you know what, let's not reintroduce the stroller. But if it wasn't that easy I wouldn't be too worried about it harming the child a lot. What I don't get is how people who aren't even in that situation can be this definite about it - that it's so completely unacceptable for a 4yo ever to sit in a stroller that it's a no brainer. Is it just that people don't trust the granny and are assuming it can only be a question of indiscriminate plonking and preventing walking, that there's no possibility of a middle ground?

I think if granny needs something to push, then she would need it all the time, not just when she is looking after a four year old. Therefore, perhaps investing in a big pushalong shopping trolley would be a more viable option.

what will granny do when the four year old is five? Or six? granny is not likely to get more mobile, is she?

If, however it is because four year old is a bit difficult to control, a wrist strap would be a better bet, even just to use as a threat. It's not as visible as a buggy.

I do think that ablebodies four year olds in buggies is a bad thing. It is dreadful for their fitness levels.

Just tried to talk to dh but he thinks that i am "unreasonable" expecting his mother to cope with dd wingeing that she is tired and that she should have the stroller at her house. Bit of an angry impasse here

But that must also apply to able bodied four year olds sitting down too much - it's not the act of sitting down that's harmful, it's the amount it happens, the where and when and how long for.

I'm sure my four year old walked more when I was pregnant because we had no car, and therefore walked everywhere, even though he occasionally sat in the pushchair that came with us. The alternative would have been never going out. So he's one definite example of a four year old for whom a buggy helped his fitness levels. It simply can't always be a bad thing - sometimes, yes (and more likely as a child gets older), but not always. That's all I'm saying. If I was the OP, I wouldn't assume the MIL can't possibly have a valid reason for wanting the pushchair, and just forbid it - I'd at least find out more.

I agree generally that 4 year olds should not be in buggies, but there can be exceptions - last summer when it was sooooo hot and we had a loooong day in Dublin we took the buggies for our then 4 and 3 yr olds - they definitely needed them by the end of the long day on the boat, train, tram and walking to / around the zoo!!

I can sympathise with MIL liking a buggy to hold onto - my mother did for a long time but generally just used it if ds stroppy and dd running off in a different direction!!

My ds is nearly 4. I use the buggy on various occasions:

when I have to get to work - we have a short period of time to get there and I have to carry a lot of stuff - there is just no way we would get there in time otherwise

when I have to carry a lot of shopping - am considering getting a shopping trolley (ie the tartan little old lady kind) for this, but I am fairly sure dragging one of those is going to be hard work not to mention bad for my posture, whereas with the buggy I can stride

when we have to go a long way - we walked to the station and back to meet NQC the other day - 2.5 mile round trip - he could do it, but it would have taken forever, and he couldn't have done it twice in one day as we needed to - 5 miles. I agree with the person who said putting a child in a buggy because you don't want to slow down to their pace is not v child friendly, but some of us do have to be places at certain times, and we don't all have cars. It's a luxury to be able to go at a child friendly pace, sometimes.

Why not sit down with the MIL and work through the typical situations and times when the whinging happens, and agree alternative ways to avoid/cope with them? You might decide to allow the stroller to be used for a little bit longer for certain very specific situations (only when walking from X to Y and only for the last quarter mile, say), or you might not. Even if you don't, maybe just sitting down and listening to why she wants the stroller and helping to brainstorm other ways round things will help to make your MIL more accepting, or persuade her of the long-term value of ditching it now, if that's what you're dead set on. If she's used to doing certain shopping on that day, maybe pay for her to do an online shop instead, or buy that shopping trolley colditz suggested, or whatever. In any case, sitting down and talking may help.

For what it's worth, it's definitely possible to use a buggy if you absolutely have to in that situation without ever giving in to the wheedling - e.g. only use it at certain planned points and move them further along each time so there's more and more walking each time. So if you do decide to put up with it for longer (which of course you may well not do), it needn't be a disaster.

Really helpful fireflighty thanks

I have 3 girls (4, 3 and 7 months). We ditched the buggy for dd2 just before dd3 came along, she was nearly 3 at this point.

DD1 actually walked around on her own from a much earlier age (her choice, not mine).

We live at the top of a long hill and town is at the bottom. We walk there nearly everyday, obviously the trip back up is a bit slow but they're fine with it.

My 3 year old will only now go in the buggy if she is unwell and I have to take her to the docs.

Allie I think one of your earlier posts said it all dd whinges with you as well until she sees something interesting then she is off. Rather than give the buggy back talking to MIL about ways to keep DD going and occupied on a walk may be a better option. As someone else said your dd is not going to get younger but she will still moan about walking to your MIL if she has always been put in a buggy.

My DD can walk quite happily during the day with me but as soon as DP or my own mum or MIL is there she will want carried on the same 5-10 minute walk and that is only because they have always picked her up not because she is genuinely tired and cannot manage the walk.

I think on a holiday where you would be out all day is a bit different one of dp's cousins from america bought a cheap stroller while here as whe was spending a lot of time walking during the day and FIL criticised her for it but as aduls we ar knackered by a day like that think about a wee 4 year olds legs.

I think your DH is being a bit unreasonable he is hearing "my mum wants a buggy you are being difficult" he is not hearing the reasons behind your not being keen, in all honesty your dd is probably more likely to be bored on the walk than actually tired so strategies and games to play are probably a better suggestion than giving the buggy back.

So, ok, they are not Toddlers they are pre schoolers at 4 ( I never have grasped the difference of that, and when exactly this transition is distinguished, tbh)...fact is they are still very young with short legs...or is that just mine, lol, maybe it's acultural difference, as I am german and well, german Kids would only have started Kindergarten!
Fireflighty, exactly...I mean, I personally could drive the 2-3 miles to the shop and back, not giving my children the chance at all to walk, or I can walk with them, but take the Buggy, considering that I find a 4-6 mile round trip to far a distance for my 4 and 2 1/2 year old Children to walk , as in the whole way!
Coldits, I think...don't understand your logic if a child doesn't need reigns they don't need a Stroller...don't think there is a connection, surely? Also, if a child gets teased for being in a pushchair at 4, surely it's the adults around those children that really take issue, not the children...?The children are probably told...oh you don't want to use a Buggy buggys are for Babys
Tassis, the scottish system does sound more apealing to me, I must admit...my 4 year old will almost be 5 by the time he starts school, as he was a November child, but there is a great possibility that his younger brother will follow him the year after, even though there is 21 month between them.... So, he will have virtually only have turned 4 Not sure yet what we will do about that., yet...

If a child does not need to be restrained in a way that requires reins

A child therefore does not need to be restrained in a way that requires a stroller.

I cannot see a grandma who needs something to push walking distances that a perfectly fit four year old won't manage.

Therefore, logically, the OPs daughter does not need a stroller. And the OPs MIL needs either a different form of physical support, or a different method of managing a four year old.

Most of my posts have been in answer to the OPs quandry.

When they go from 2 to 3, the are considered preschoolers, not toddlers. 4 could be considered school-aged, or preschool-aged, but never toddler-aged, which I believe to be walking age to 3.

4 years old is still a very young child, surely..if Toddler or pre-schooler...whatever...
also, reigns are, of course a safety restraint, a Buggy isn't necessarily a saftely restraint...is it...I really don't see the issue, of course a child should also be encouraged to walk, I don't say anything against that...but some children do this earlier others later...and depends on what sort of distances you walk, etc..!

I managed to completely ditch the buggy at four years and two months, inspite of my son being late walking. He was under a child physio until he was three and half years old because of walking problems.

I think you are right to ditch the buggy. It is hard work initally, but its important for your child's health that she should learn to walk a reasonable distance.

I suspect that your mother in law is too old to look after your four year old. Maybe you should rethink your childcare arrangements.

adath I agree with your post about your DD walking happily with you, but whinging to DH/Mum/MIL. I found this with my DD. Yesterday I took DS and DD on a 1 1/2 mile walk through the woods near us. She walked all the way quite happily (she is 2.9) apart from once when she fell over and cried. But I rubbed her knee and on we continued.

Today we went to York and weren't there long so didn't take the pushchair. DD got DH to pick her up several times. She didn't even ask me. In fact at one point we were walking along and she was holding my hand. She let go of my hand to go to DH to be picked up. Like most 2yos, she is not daft.

Children who walk regularly build up stamina.

I'm a horrible Nanny, weaned all of my charges off the buggy between 2.6/3yrs...only used buggy when ill & going to the Doctors!

None of them have ever whined, walking sometimes upto 2/3 miles!

Grandma doesn't need the buggy, I'm sure she'll be fine once you discuss tactics to deal with the whining!

I should let your MIL use the stroller for your daughter. It is only once a wekk and you can say it is just to help Granny ( or whatever youcall her). I don't think 4 is to old to use a stroller occansionly. We used a stoller round disney whem DD3 was 5. This was because we spent long hours there and she tired very easily.