In hospital urgent advice needed!

[RachaelLaurenDaisyStone]

Hi, my baby is 10 weeks old breastfed only and we've been admitted to hospital for a few days observation as she has had a very slight weight loss since her immunisations 2 weeks ago (lots of dioreah) born 7lbs 6oz. Was gaining along her percentile and only lost 7%of birth weight. Went from 8lbs 15oz to 8lbs 10oz and has gone back up to 8lbs 12oz but they still have admitted us even though I protested. So anyway the advice I need desperately is that I feel I am being bullied into giving her formula, and they are forcing me to wake her up in the night for a feed. She feeds well in the day every 2-4 hours on both breasts and I have a very good supply I express every morning and get 6 oz in about 10-12 mins. But she has slept through the night since 4 days old. This has never effected her negatively before. I really feel the jabs are the reason she's lost the weight and is slow gaining. Can I refuse to wake her up in the night to the doctors? I'm now giving her a 150mls as well with both breasts at every feed I see think that will be helping her gain without waking her up and without giving her formula. Please can anyone give me advice on what my rights as a parent are?! It's not like she's underweight she's still in the 50th percentile!

OP my goodness, this is so stressful.

I can't help regarding quantities or frequencies, but wanted to let you know about supplemental feeders. There's one called Lact-Aid and another that is more common. A lactation consultant will know.

Why they might help you is that you feed baby on your breast, so they're getting all the milk you're producing, but there's a tiny pipe/straw that you put in their mouth with the nipple that is attached to formula. I had to use this, in similarly stressful circumstances, when my son was newborn. It made a MASSIVE difference and enabled me to still produce all I could (breast surgery was cause for me).

Also, the lactation consultant, who was pretty "radical" about breast is best told me that you still get about 80% of the benefits of breast milk with only 20% of intake (the rest being formula). I never checked the figures and may have remembered them slightly inaccurately, but that was the gist of it. She also went from radical breast is best to "give him formula and don't stop until he does" before I met her when I explained his weight loss.

He's a super happy little boy with lots of friends and doing well at school. He has eczema and dairy intolerance, but I can't have dairy, neither can his paternal grandfather and his maternal grandmother had eczema too, so can't say what the cause was.

Your baby looks beautiful by the way.

Rachael I really feel for you, it sounds like a tough, lonely situation there.
I mixed fed my first child and it was a real trauma to give him the first couple of bottles, I thought I was the worst mother ever but my husband just looked at me and said "it's just formula! It's not gin and tonic!"
My emotions were so high it was out of all proportion to me and I actually thought I was harming him. But of course it's not harmful, it's just not as good as a main milk.
I continued to mixed feed until he was 11months with no probs.
Baby no 2 was bottle fed from the off and I was much less anxious about it. I haven't noticed any discernible difference between them. Obviously you'll make your own choice but you need to look after yourself too.

I had to see a consultant with DD3 due to 'failure to thrive'.
I was BFing her just like I had with the other 2 and because like you say 'breast is best' fed on demand etc I thought she was fine.
However, I was hugely stressed at the time and simply not eating. She wasn't getting the calories she needed.
I think you need to get more calories in you OP so your body can pass them on to her

Or give her formula.

www.facebook.com/groups/SwindonBreastmates/

These might be able to offer you some local support in Swindon if you request to join?

OP your DD is lovely.

You mentioned that her poo was very watery? Has she been tested for any allergies/intolerances?

Please do look after yourself and keep your energy up by eating properly

OP - the breastfeeding lady at Swindon GWH is Elena Rossi, I trained with her to become a peer supporter. She does come in at the weekends, she or one of the other BF ladies comes in as and when requested by the postnatal ward. You need to get the labour/postnatal ward to ring her asap.

Formula absolutely does not cause SIDS or poor nutrition and breast isn't always best.

You need to speak with a lactation consultant, but the fact is your daughter isn't putting on enough weight the way things are. I feel for you as my DD2's weight plateaued and in the end only formula top ups worked. It wasn't what I wanted in an ideal world, but that's the thing about parenting, it's never going to be exactly how you think it will be.

Please don't avoid formula just because you've been told it's awful, it isn't.

OP your daughter is beautiful!

Have you started to feed her at night yet? That will really help.

I also second (third?) the pps who said please try to increase the calories you are taking on. Is there anything that will tempt you? Will they offer you things like porridge, baked potatoes etc? You'll need iron (red meat, green veg) and protein (meat, eggs etc). What about supplements? I'm also ebf my dd and currently taking the Sainsbury's own pregnancy supplements (also covers breastfeeding) they are nowhere near as expensive as the branded ones.

Also don't forget to keep up your water intake. So important but easily forgotten.

Don't worry too much about dd's lip blister, it just means she's been feeding lots and is fairly common.

Start asking questions tomorrow. Good luck!

Gosh OP I feel for you! Your baby is beautiful but even without reading your posts her little face looks thin under the eyes.
I really hope you both get the support you need.

From personal experience, some of the paediatricians at GWH in Swindon are not particularly interested in breastfeeding. With hindsight though, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (although at the time I felt as you do). They want to make sure your baby is getting a set amount of calories, and the easiest way to be sure of this is to give formula milk in a bottle.

Personally I think their bfing advice is shocking from the perspective of increasing supply/weight gain but the truth is that unless you consume more calories it may be impossible for you to increase your supply sufficiently to meet your babies needs.

Op - I also suoect that your refusal to attend an arranged appointment to discuss your own health will also raise red flags. I assume they were trying to get you to engage with medical professionals about your eating disorder in order to enable you to raise your calorie intake in order to continue bf. I would strongly advise that you engage with your own medical health professionals and mental health team so that they can accurately advise you on your own nutrition and support you through increasing your own calorie intake (in a very definite way as you are not consuming enough calories to bf) and support your mh.
Not engaging regarding your own nutrition and mh will cause further concerns. your actual weight is not relevant. Your calorie intake is. Existing on water and the occasional salad will not be providing your dd with what she needs to thrive. Her lack of weight gain is extremely concerning. As is your desire to discharge/ complain/ and your refusal to engage with your own medical health professionals.
Please do try to see that the hospital staff are absolutely right to be concerned by your dd's lack of weight gain. To drop 50 centiles in 8 weeks is very serious and is indicative that she is not receiving adequate nutrition.

As an aside - dd2 was born at 9lbs. Due to a complicated start, we actually had to set alarms throughout the night in order to dream feed her, and this continued through most of her first year, as it was very quickly established that feeding her on demand was not going to work. (I had demand fed my other two who thrived on bm). In the end, I only managed to bf dd2 for 6 weeks due to her complicated feeding needs, and switched to ff as it was going to being the best for HER. It was disappointing (we were in discussions with lactation consultants and looking at supplemental feeders) but ultimately we made the decision for her health.

Supplemental bf is not good advice in your situation, until you have significantly increased your calorific intake in order to meet your own needs. For whatever reason, your dd is not getting what she requires from your bm currently. It is the hospital's job to work out why not. Please increase your own intake so that they are able to rule out your own lack of nutrition as the root cause of your dd's severe lack of weight gain. We can't categorically state that it is the cause, but there are enough red flags for it to be considered at this point (including the inherent belief that ff is bad for a baby).

Similar situation with my 3 kids they all lost significant weight with my breastfeeding and we ended up back in hospital with the eldest two.
I topped up with formula. Probably saved my kids lives and my sanity.
Kids are fine so far, eldest 2 seem very intelligent, sporty and lovely little characters. Youngest is too young to tell but she is wonderful so I'm sure the weight loss and then formula top ups haven't really hurt them. Try not to worry about it so much. Give a little formula if the doctor thinks it's best.

What a tough situation to be in. I hope it all works out.

My dd1 was hospitalized at 10 days old with failure to thrive. We were having massive feeding issues, I was feeding 2.5 hours out of every 3, totally exhausted but she was getting virtually nothing. One mw told us to keep going and on day 10, another mw visited and told us to get to the hospital within the hour. We were put on formula straight away. I was desperate to bf for many reasons and wouldn't consider formula but was literally told that my dd's wellbeing was at stake. I wish I'd tried it sooner and for a long time felt like the worst parent ever, starving my newborn for my own principles and beliefs. Sometimes you just have to listen and consider other advice. Like your lo, she doesn't have the newborn chubbiness in her baby photos (although our baby photos are much worse).

Dd1 is now a smart, funny and gorgeous 11 year old with no health issues or allergies whatsoever. Please try some formula, it's not forever and may be just the solution you both need.

I hope you get the help you need. I did notice that earlier you said something about your weight and wanting to harm yourself if you didn't have a newborn, that I thought was really concerning. That, coupled with the fact that you are barely eating, and your DD has been very slow to gain weight, means that a hospital is probably the right place for you right now.
Are you eating in hospital? What you eat has an impact on the quality of your breastmilk and if you are surviving on water alone, that's not good for you or your baby. And even if they do put the baby on formula, please do take care of your health.

OP I hope you are ok. I agree with the others that you need to look at other options for your DD. She looks very tiny for her age and in all honesty underweight. I can see from the picture you posted why the Drs are concerned.

I can see why they want to try formula. What do you lose by trying to mix feed?

OP I agree with you that she can gain without formula. My boys were born large around 91st centile and dropped to 25th or just below by 10 weeks and stayed there. If I had fed them 4 hourly they would be starving! Not all babies can do this. Can I suggest you feed 2-3 hourly during the day and try and use just one breast if it still has milk flowing until you feel empty and then swap. The hind milk is more calorific. Although you don't feel like it it's really important you eat well too. Baby needs at least 600 calories a day and you will use more than this making and giving it to her so at a minimum you need 2500 to maintain your own weight, any less and you will start losing and too little will have your milk quality suffer.

I would agree with all the posters that say you need to night feed. You don't have to wake her, just dream feed. Stick at 2-3 hourly until you fall asleep and then go to 4. If you want to work out how much milk she is getting you can weigh her before and after a feed. Ask a nursery nurse if you can keep some scales I. Your room.

the advice when bf is not to diet for the first 6 months, so it has to affect milk, and you're not just dieting, you are starving yourself Op. It'd be kinder to you and baby for you to FF. It's not a failure. Someone pointed out to me that most of the academics born in the 60s and 70s were FF as it was seen as more scientific and 'progress' and there's been no reported decline in the intelligence of academics in that generation.

Hi op
I know you are want the absolute best for your baby and congratulations she is so gorgeous!
Formula is a good thing to give her to get her weight up. The midwives etc will be saying 'breast is best' when babies are thriving and mums are happy - if this isn't the case then persevering with breastfeeding is not best
Please look after yourself you are her world and need to be strong and healthy for her - please try to eat and drink well
In terms of her sleeping it may seem like a good thing that she is sleeping through the night but you want this to be due to her being full and growing not because she is lacking energy
Good luck

Hi OP. Your photo of your DD is beautiful but she does look thin to me I'm afraid. Please ask to speak to the consultant for the ward today (they should be in today as it's a Monday) and be honest about your dietary intake with them (since you are currently a normal weight and since they will be focusing on your DD as the patient rather than yourself they may not realise you have an eating disorder and are not eating enough). Please try and avoid discharging yourself as dropping from 50th to 2nd centile in 10 weeks is very serious and she needs medical attention. xx

Formula isn't poison, it really isn't. I had to stop breast feeding my eldest at 6 weeks as I couldn't provide enough for her needs. We were both knackered, baby would fall asleep after ten minutes feeding, then wake up half an hour later screaming for more milk. My HV advised ff as a top up, I will never forget that first f feed, HV had some pre prepared bottles in her car, the little ones they provide in hospital. I reluctantly fed my baby with it, she drained the bottle and was rooting for more...so I gave her another and she drained that one too. She then fell asleep and slept for three hours. I breast fed with ff top ups for few more weeks then stopped breastfeeding altogether. You could say she thrived...she is now 6' tall

Meant to say I stopped exclusive breast feeding at 6 weeks

I hope you get some answers today, hopefully there will be more medical staff in today following the weekend.

I have ff all my babies, formula really isn't bad!

I hope you are ok

I BF two DC and FF one, there is literally no difference in health and intelligence between them! Formula is absolutely fine, and your baby needs it.

Her photo is absolutely beautiful, she's a real little smiler But she looks too thin, the hospital are right. And please don't get sidetracked into allergies, time of feeds, all of that. It seems fairly clear your lack of nutrition means she isn't getting enough.

You clearly adore her and are a wonderful loving mother, make the right choice for her with formula top ups then access help yourself so she can have a happy healthy mummy. You shouldn't be only living for her/your DH, with help you can live for you too and the joy of life.

Good luck OP x