Worried again - autism?

[paradise]

Hi

I have posted a few threads over the last month, about my worries over my DS and his behaviour. Saw my HV recently about his language, using 4-5 word sentences although is quite unclear. She dismissed my thoughts on possible autism as she said he communicates and talks alot!! Jimjams or anyone, are you out there? I'll recap a bit-
DS is 2.5,

1. he has been quite aggressive with his peers over the last three months, pushing etc mainly over toys at playgroups, gets very upset. Even tells me when he's pushed somebody!

2. often repeats what I've said, but always seems to be in context. He also has started to say same things in certain places, e.g. will ask if we need petrol, whilst going down the same road, nr a petrol station.

3)has been humming tunes, singing alot, sometimes the singing doesn't even make sense. He's o.k when he's engrossed in an actvity, my dh thinks he's just amusing himself, just seems a bit strange sometimes.

4. Tantrums have become quite intense, will get upset over something slight, like the washing line being up!

5. loves his routines, although can be distracted from them more frequently now. e.g. his drink of water has to sit exactly at the same place when he brushes his teeth.

6)Sometimes bangs me with his head, although i did think this was just to get attention.

7)Memory seems exceptionally good

8)Lines up his cars alot and tells me that they're 'parked'when I ask him what he's doing. Seemed to do this after me buying him a garage.

Sorry, this has turned out to be a rather long post.
on the good side he:
1)points alot to things of interest
2)will look if I attract his attention to something
3)will copy me sometimes if I ask him to, although I do think he knows I'm trying to test him sometimes and doesn't want to do it.

I don't know whether to go back to my HV and try and convince her about my concerns or to go and see my GP. DS also starts his nursery this week, all be it just a transitional phase, 2 afternoons a week till July. Should I wait to see if they pick anything up?

Some days I feel fine and some days just seem to pick out all the bad bits. I love my little boy so much and just want to be able to do the right thing for him.

thanks for listening, it helps just writing it all down.

Paradise i have no experience in autism at all, but your Ds sounds perfectly normal to me. It all sounds like he is just learning to occupy himself, especially the garage thing. My adaughter does that wwhen we pass shops she tinks we are going to tescos. My dd, 2, also bangs her head against me when tired and she gets upset at silly things similar to your washing line but thats more if shes tired. Shes not talking as well as your Ds either. Could the getting angry thing just be frustration?

But a mothers instinct is what counts so get him checked and put your mind at rest. Good Luck and im sure Jimjams will give you lots of good advice

Excuse spelling errors my fingers get carried away

charlieplus3

thanks for your post and your honesty, what would we do without mumsnet!!

yes it could be frustration, he does seems to have a short fuse like myslef and DH.

Paradise, my ds is almost 2.5 and does a lot of the same things, e.g. the car parking, humming and singing, saying things as we go down certain familiar roads, tantrums over things that seem unimportant to us. I think it is typical of a toddler his age. Hope that is reassuring.

He really does sound perfectly normal, my dd has just started singing to herself and reading to herself and its gobbly gook and terribly funny.Im impressed that yours can put four or five words together. Is he nearer 3 than 2? Mine only turned two last week.

I think his tantrums and agressivness and pushing really is just his age and the terrible twos. I hope so anyway. Let us know how he gets on will you?

thanks gingernut,nice to hear that other children are doing similar things, sometimes you feel that your ds/dd is the only one behaving like this.

charlieplus 3 - my ds is 2.5, although was 6 weeks prem.

will wait to hear from any of the others with ASD experience / advice.

thanks gingernut,nice to hear that other children are doing similar things, sometimes you feel that your ds/dd is the only one behaving like this.

charlieplus 3 - my ds is 2.5, although was 6 weeks prem.

will wait to hear from any of the others with ASD experience / advice.

sorry, message sent twice by mistake

Hi, Paradise. My ds1 (nearly 4) has ASD. I obviously have no idea whether your ds is autistic but I'm not sure I would agree with your HV's suggestion that just because a child can talk that they can't be autistic!

Do you remember how old your ds was when he began pointing at things? The usual age is somewhere around 12 months old (ds1 was 2.5yrs old). If you point at an object does he look at where you are pointing to or does he look at your hand/finger?

Lining things up isn't necessarily a sign of autism. Ds1 has never really been a liner-upper. The fact that your ds can be distracted from doing things that he wants is a good sign. It can be almost impossible to distract most ASD children from something that they think has to be done.

I'm trying to think of other indicators but my mind has gone blank! What happens when you try to walk somewhere via a different route to the one you would normally take? Is he willing to be re-directed like this or does he insist on taking the usual route?

Have you had a chance to do much reading about ASD? If so, did it seem as though someone had been spying on your child and had written an article/book about him? That's how I felt when I read my first book about autism.

just wanted to push this thread up in case anyone was there with autistic experience, thanks

thanks coppertop

i agree with you about my HV comments,crazy!!

i can't really remember when my ds started pointing out things of interest but i know he was pointing to things that i asked him to show me,easily at 12 months.although i know thats not really the same is it

he does follow my hand/ finger when I point things out, although sometimes he sems to get the perspective wrong, if you see what I mean. He has never just pointed at my hand though.

he does like to go certain ways, although sometimes i can persuade him to go another route and distract him.

haven't really read any books on ASD, but have done some reading over the web. there's alot out there to read isn't there. do you suggest anything in particular?

For a basic guide on the signs of ASD you could start by looking at the National Autistic Society's site at www.nas.org.uk

Tony Attwood's books are also pretty good. Luke Jackson's "Freaks, Geeks & Asperger Syndrome" is also a good book. Luke himself has AS and wrote it at the age of about 13. IIRC he also mentions his youngest brother a lot, who has the more 'classic' ASD.

I think Coppertop's advice is good and checking the NAS website is definitely worth doing. I'm not sure I'm picking up anything unusual about him, although I don't know about children other than those with ASD! (except up to 15 mos). Maybe you could approach it from another angle and tell your HV that YOU need support to find some ways and strategies of dealing with these issues and see what she suggests. I'm not suggesting any problems are your doing but maybe getting some strategies under your belt and becoming confident with dealing with tantrums for instance, analysying what may cause problems etc wouldn't do any harm. I would also go to the GP anyway, no harm done and a second opinion if nothing else.

davros

thanks for your help and support, it really does put things into perspective just talking about it with others.

Paradise hope you dont mind me saying but if you are thinking autistic could it possibly be mild arspergers??? Just a thought maybe you should look into that too, again Jimjams is the best person to ask i think. Have you e mailed her?

he sounds like my 2.5 yr old! should I be worried aswell? I am like Davros I have no experience of NT behaviour as my eldest has Special needs. i am not worried about my boy though, I think it is the terrible twos tbh

He sounds like a normal 2 year old to be honest. They're not all like this, but loads of them are. I would just sit it out for now to be honest.

He sounds like any number of two and a half year olds that I know, tbh. My ds sings a lot, children like to sing.

thankyou all for your messages.

charlieplus3 - i had believed that aspergers was difficult to diagnose in a 2.5 yr old.
Anyway have bought some books to read up on and am planning to go and see my GP next week. Maybe my DS is just going through the terrible two's, hard sometimes when it's your first child. He starts nursery this week, time will tell. Will try and email jimjams. thanks again.

Hi Just seen this (internet access has been down). All looks like sensible advice to me. Nothing in your post stands out that much. I've noticed that my ds2 (who is definitely not autistic) often repeats stuff but its definitely not echlolaic. It's almost like someone practicing a new language.

Headbanging in autistic children doesn't seem to hurt them ime. When ds1 headbangs he does it hard enough to bruise quite badly.

DS2 (fine) lines lots of things up- he's making trains he tells me. DS1 hasn't lined anything up ever- he destroys ds2's lines. The point about the lining up thing is that autistic children will fiddle etc rather than play. So ds1 will lie on the floor and push a car backwards and forwards or will pick it up and watch the wheels spin. When ds2 plays it has a running commentary and an imagination- a story behind it. his trains crash and bump, drink and get told off iyswim.

Hi Jimjams

Thanks for your message, sorry to hear your internet access was down, I think quite a few of us MNers have missed your presence!!

Re my DS and playing with things, he does sometimes spin the wheels on his cars but not obsessively, however he doesn't really have a running commentary when he plays, but does makes car / lorry noises.

His speech is quite unclear, although I can understand him most of the time.

Re the tantrums, he just seems to have such a short fuse alot more than normal at the moment especially about things being done in a certain way, sometimes I can distract him which is good. Do you think I'm worring for no reason?
I had planned to go and visit my GP next week as my HV seems to think DS isn't autistic because he's talkative - a bit of a sweeping statement there I think!!

Your comments are really appreciated, thanks

Well I wouldn't trust any HV statements on autim they really know nothing I tend to say if a parent is worried (expecially a mother) then get it looked at. There's nothing in your messages that particularly scream autism at me, but early signs are subtle so I wouldn't want to dismiss them iyswim.

I think all 2 year olds can be a bit fussy about things being just right iyswim. For a comparison ds1 had a meltdown earlier over the TV (no idea what something was "wrong". He was trying to kick it to pieces, I dragged him out of the front room and took him to his room when he smashed his head on the window several times (he's strong I was holding him- still managed it). His heart was absolutely racing and he's been left with little pinprick marks over his chest where he must have burst capillaries or something from screaming. That's a typical autistic meltdown- the anger and frustration is streets away from a "normal" toddler tantrum iyswim. Almost wish I had one on video (although I also don't iyswim) - just people could compare when they are worried about types of tantrums. My friend's 3 year old (NT- nothing wrong at all) has very loud very long tantrums (he has an autistic sister and we think he is copying) but they don't carry the same anger/frustration.

Agree very much over the stregth of the tantrums Jimjams. We do have a melt down on video. I taped it to show HV how bad it could be, this one was over me singing a "wrong"(in his mind) word in a song. Nothing will calm him down. He almost seems to want to relive the moment, with it going the way it should to him. He does not understand that this cannot happen so has to just scream it out. At his worst he will scream himself to sleep and then wake up and carry on screaming.

We had the biggest melt down we have had for a long time at the weekend. My sister had bought him a new Pingu video. He could not accept that there was a different Pingu video in the world and just lost it. He is nearly six and I am also finding him harder to restrain. I am lucky though he has outgrown his headbanging phase.
He now only slaps his head when excited

Paradise Your little boy is not doing any thing that would worry me too much. I wonder if Charlieplus3 mentioned AS as your sons speech would be too good to meet the diagnostic criteria for autism. You can always ask for a referral as it usually takes ages to be seen anyway. I did not know that a good memory was an indicator for ASD. My autistic son appears to have no short term memory.

"2 year olds can be a bit fussy about things being just right" -- oh, Jimjams, you almost had me choke laughing on my apple crumble, there. "Can" be fussy, hahahahahhaaa... Ahem...

My DD is 2yo+8months, Paradise, and pretty much sounds exactly like your DS (well, she's only tried to sing once that I recall), but otherwise, it's could be the same child. She's absolutely not autistic, but God help the person who sits in her favourite chair, who tries to help her go to the loo if she doesn't want help, or tries to get her to wear a pair of shoes she doesn't prefer. And she can change her mind (esp. about footwear!) every 10 seconds. She requires constant nose-wiping, although I can't detect anything on the tissue afterwards. Any change in her skin temperature prompts frantic repititive cries of "I a bit cold!" (said more like "Ah bi' 'old!!!!!" ) She's taken to screaming just to get her way (express her frustrations). Oh, the joys of 2year olds!