Run out of options - and he doesn't have ADHD!!

[Nattie]

This is long - sorry. The following is a brief history of DS's behaviour and I'm hoping somebody out there has some insight - it's the bulk of a letter I wrote to my GP:

"DS has had ?challenging behaviour? since he was about 18 months old.

A great many strategies have been tried to modify his behaviour. He has also undergone a number of assessments.

• We?ve attended sessions with a Brief Therapy Counsellor (www.brieftherapy.org.uk), having been referred by his previous primary school, in London.

• I have attended two sets of parenting classes.

• I have read every childhood behaviour book going.

• DS is on a course of Omega 3 supplements to see if that might work.

Since moving to Suffolk:

• The Safe Schools officer has visited Feoffment twice.

• He has been assessed as having an IQ in the top 8% in the country.

He has always had a lot of positive reinforcement and attention at home and I think part of the problem is that he demands even more, he is like a bottomless pit.

He eats well, most food at home is cooked from fresh ingredients; sweets and junk food are limited.

But at school he hits, kicks and screams at teachers when he doesn?t like something or can?t get his own way and he is constantly pinching or hitting or pushing (almost absent mindedly) the other children in his class. There are only a couple of children who will play with him or even sit with him because of this. He can?t line up and finds it nearly impossible to be quiet at ?carpet time? or in assemblies; he shouts out and is always muttering, he craves constant attention.

However, he is very bright, articulate and engaging and can strike up conversations with adults easily. In fact, he makes friends with children very quickly but these friendships don?t last very long because, after a couple of days, he starts trying to direct their play and, obviously, they don?t respond very positively and then it all goes pear-shaped!

Any strategies that have been employed, which can involve either a reward scheme or a punishment (usually denial) scheme, works for a short while until DS either tires of it or sees through it and then his behaviour slips right back again. Nobody can get him to empathise with the feelings that his victims have, even when we try exercises with him to try and relate to feelings that he might have had in similar situations. We can?t get him to take responsibility for his actions. He just says that he can?t help it. He is obviously very, very fed up with the constant tellings off."

The result of the visit to the Childhood Development Centre is that he didn't have ADHD (he showed 'sumptoms' of ADHD at school but not at home!!) but that the 'expert's' only solution was to medicate him! I've since encountered a lot of parents whose children just don't fit and have a lot of trouble at school. If any child's behaviour is put under as much scrutiny as mine has been then, surely, they too would be deemed to display odd behaviour.

State schools just can't cope with 'rebellious' non-conformist children - they're tied up with targets and funding. A recent statistic states that 1 in 20 children have been diagnosed with ADHD. I just don't believe that's so. If we'd said 'yes' ds would have been medicated too and become a statistic.

I want some support for children who are being bludgeoned in to conforming to a system that just doesn't work.

Anybody with similar experiences?

Hi Nattie

Hope that all of this isn't too overwhelming for you. I have put this link on here many times when people have been worried about autism/related conditions and the results are pretty good:-
pddquestionaire
Hopefully the results will be useful to you.

Hi!

My DS is six and aren't all the montessori and steiner school private? We have no resources for that unless there are scholarships.

Thanks for the PDD questionnaire, BlossomHill. Sorry for my ignorance, but what's PDD. I did the questionnaire and DS was zero on practically everything except the occasional extreme blip and only scored 43 - no PDD.

Steiner schools often have means tested fees.

I don't suppose BlossomHill is still out there?

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Robin W - yes. I've been on two parenting courses and do all the positive parenting stuff and his behaviour is 'normal' at home. He's challenging and beligerent sometimes and not others. His major problem is being with 25 other children.

We've been through the attention seeking stuff too. His school has called in all the resources it has access to which is why I've come here - we've run out of options. I might try getting him assessed for aspergers but he doesn't fulfil a majority of the criteria.

I've met another mother at DS's school who says that her son used to have the same reaction to school except he shut down and refused to do anything whereas DS lashes out.

It just makes me sad that if a child fits the system then they're fine and they're not expected to be repressed whereas DS has a personality which doesn't fit so he has to be repressed.

Essentially I think DS has to be bullied to conform and don't feel happy with it.

Can I ask what you are doing at home that is helping that hasn't been tried at school? You are obviously having a lost of sucess with your son at home that isn't happening at school. Is there anything that you are doing that the school can do that will improve things.

Is he 'challening' at home if you direct his behaviour? If not, them what stratagies are you using and could these be impemented at school?

Or are his problems based on his not being satisfied with 1/25th of the teachers time? If so, them this might be hardder for the school to cope with. I think one of the most worrying things you mention is that he is finding it hard to keep friends as they are finding his 'directing' them difficult. That must be very upsetting for him. Does he have other friends that cope better. Is his behaviour different with them?

You do have my sympathy, I hope that things improve.

Nattie, my sympathies too. It lookes like you've tried everything. I think hmb's suggestion - what is the difference between how he is treated at home and school is good. If the real problem is 25 other children, then difficult to extend home strategies to school so well.

Has your son only ever attended the one school? Do you think there is any chance he would act differently if he had a fresh start at a new school? No one would have preconceptions about him. My son was classed as one of the more challenging boys at school. He was getting a name for himself. Once that happens it's difficult to shake off. We moved houses and he changed schools. The change did help, I think, though no immediate transformation.

I can't offer advice on AS and ADHD etc but think you've been given some fab advice here.

Nattie, just read your story it sounds very familar to what i have just been reading about. Sorry but i didn't read all the replies as there was so many so if this has already been sugested iam sorry. I know you said he has a well balanced diet but have you considered that he may have a chemical reaction to food colouring/preservatives/flavour enhancers etc they are almost found in all of our foods today even fresh fruit and vegies some of the preservatives such as 282 (been used in Australia for only the past 10 years) is found in bread and this can cause learning difficalities and behavour problems. this is just one example there are so many effects that these chemicals can have on our children. The book is titled Fed Up by Sue Dengate i think there is a website if you type in fed up with food it may come up. its not an easy answer it goes into a elimination diet so you can pin point what he maybe reacting to. in the book it describes how the authors hubby and children suffer from ADHD but on the failsafe diet it is alot more managable even without the drugs. the website is worth a look at anyway. let me know if you have a look and what you think. best of luck my thoughts are with you and ds.

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found the web address hope this helps. will have to look at the one you have suggested robinw thanks for that one.
.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/biodata.htm
its actually quite scary to read what is in our food.

I would have thought that is it were his diet that was the cause of the problem his behaviour would be challenging at home as well as at school? Or is his diet a problem at school?

So many questions to answer. I'll try here.

I'm able give him more time. For instance, we used to have trouble getting him to bed. So I was advised to give him time warnings, ie 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, bed! And it works. They can't do that at school. Also, he hates being told how to do things but also gets very frustrated when he then can't do them. If he goes off on one, then I just walk away and he comes to me and apologises when he's calmed down. Then we start again. He can't queue with other children without pinching, or flicking, or hitting - apropos of nothing at all. He shouts out in class, contradicts and is incredibly competitive. The majority of his time in the classroom he has his own desk but when he does have to do co-operative work he is very intolerent of whoever he's working with when they can't do it - he's even hit a teacher because of it then I'm called and I have to collect him and he's excluded for two days.

I know he's got to learn to live with other people. I wouldn't mind if he was a loner but he's not - he's desperate to be popular and be liked and tries to play the clown in order to endear himself but loses friends when he over-reacts and hurts.

The trouble is, the strategies at school aren't working. We have already tried the changing school bit. We were living in overcrowded London and moved to Suffolk and the school he's in is excellent but they can't fathom anything.

I'd be a hopeless home educator. I'm a rotten teacher and have no patience.

I am very grateful for all your contributions.

Hmm, this does sound like a tough one. I can see that it is helpful for him to have more time, and that you can give him this. But I can also see that it would be more difficult for the school to give him more time. I can also see their side of things. I can cope when dd goes off on one, but it is a lot harder to cope with a student having a melt down when you have 24 others to consider

OK, a couple of ideas, and I'm sorry if this is telling my granny how to suck eggs, as I bet you have tried most of these before.

I think that it is a positive things that he wants to have friends. I'd be a lot more worried if he was disinterested in others. Have you tried role playing things that have happened in school to help him to see others' points of view?

Re the not wanting help but not wanting to fail things, this will be tricky to get over. Can you help to put him back into the driving seat by getting him to ask for specific advice? Not easy I realise but he might feel more in conrol and be happier/calmer. Say he has 3 goes to do it on his own and then he asks for one bit of help. Then has another 3 tries etc. Stress that it is the learning how to that matters not getting it right first time.

Re the pinching etc, can he have something to do with his hands to ocupy himself in a more positive way. If he is a fidgiter then those squeezy stress balls han help to focus him on pinching that, and not pinching others.

Set very short term goals. And I mean short! Eg no calling out for 2-5 minutes. Teacher puts a tick for each 5 min session etc. Same thing with working with others. He is to listen to another child for 1 minute before he makes a comment. Can the school get in a LSW to help him with these coping stratagies? Could you offer to help him in class for a short time?

Not sure if any of this is helpful. I'm not a primary teacher, but these things have helped older children I have worked with.

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RobinW - I'll try and address everything.....

He does go to other groups. He went to a drama group but was expelled because he was disruptive and hated 'losing' any of the role play games they played. He kept having tantrums and throwing furniture around. He goes to martial arts now and the teacher is his only male teacher. He has 'practised' on other children and been made to sit out and, after six months, he is finally focussing. Although there is a constant verbal barage (talking and muttering) which the teacher is trying to train him out of. He also goes to choir once a week and sits for an hour singing with 30 other children (3 boys and 26 girls) and does everything he's asked. That also took a bit of training until the teacher said that he had to settle or get out - and he loves singing so much that he buckled under.

He's supposed to line up going in and out of classrooms for PE or lunch or assembly or playtime and there are always problems. The school has funding for a full time classroom assistant dedicated to DS. Which is fine 'cos he gets one-to-one attention but the school wants to wean him of this over the next half-term so that he doesn't have to have it in Year 2. This just isn't going to happen. Having the classroom assistant there to pre-empt his every abherent move has meant that he's not been taking responsibility for his own actions at school for the past 6 months. The other thing is, although he's got above average IQ and he has a full-time dedicated assistant his academic work is way behind the average in the class. The school's more worried about this than I am - it'll fall into place when he's ready.

We've tried the empathy thing too. He just doesn't have it. I've tried to get him to visualise when somebody's done something to him that upset him a lot and he did get upset but when I tried to relate that feeling to the way he makes other people feel I might as well have started talking Mandarin to him - there was absolutely no point of contact.

Re: home education. The devotion of time thing is my problem. He does also have a younger sister (3 years) who is getting on fine. I've tried doing homework with him after school and on his excluded days and we both come to blows after about 5 minutes. The trouble is I don't think he should be getting homework at six years - what with reading every night plus spelling and maths and writing, it amounts to 2 hours a week - so I have absolutely no commitment to it.

I have no patience when I try and cook with them or plant seeds or do the gardening or play with playdough. I probably shouldn't have had children and therein lies the problem.

My partner didn't attend the parenting classes and lets them run rings around him - anything for a quiet life.

As he's such a bright child have you thought about perhaps contacting some organisations for parents of bright/gifted children. They may be able to give you some advice about aspects of his behaviour. If you're interested in looking into this I could give you the names of some sites?

Try not to be too hard on yourself. Parenting is the hardest job and no-one gets it all right all the time.

The thing that you said that worries me the most is that your dp doesn't follow the same rules but is 'anything for an easy life'. To my mind this will be giving your ds mixed messages, and as a bright child he will therefore continue to push to get his own way in school etc.

I would also be worried that he isn't fulfilling his potential, not because he will suffer educationaly, as you say he can catch up. But you don't want him to get into the habit of thinking of himself as the class clown, as that sort of behaviour is very hard to turn around.

Fight to keep his 1 on 1! Does he had a statement and/or an IEP?

hmb - you're right about mixed messages and I have got to get things sorted with DP. And you're right about him becoming the class clown - he tries too hard to please and at the same time has zero tolerance.

coppertop - can you pass those addresses to me?

previous messages have suggested aspergers; The school and the educational psych have dismissed it...... I'm going to go to my GP to talk to him about it, anyway. What do you both think about that?

I'm not the expert on Aspergers, and others have a lot more information on it. The one thing that you have said that does ring a bell is the lack of empathy about how others might feel. However if he is, it would seem as if he is at the high functioning end of the scale as he can adapt his behaviour when he choses.

One other thing re the mixed messages. I'm also a little worred that you have no commitment to homework. I agree with you that 6 is young, but as he is so bright I would think that he might be picking up the message from you that school isn't that important? Sorry if this sounds argumentative, it isn't suposed to be. Can you not find another school that is more in tune with your feelings and will therefore be more of a 'united' message to him?

Does he have an IEP? and if so what are his targets? Does he have a statement (and if not the school has done well to get him the 1 on 1), and if he does what is his provision?

Here are some web-sites which may be of use to you. Sorry I can't do links :

CHI - Children of High Intelligence support group is at
www.chi-charity.org.uk

NACE - National Association for Able Children is at
www.nace.co.uk

NAGC - National Association for Gifted Children is at
www.nagcbritain.org.uk

Perhaps one of these groups will be able to help you too. I would also definitely agree with hmb that the lack of empathy/inability to understand the feelings of others is a classic sign of AS/ASD.