How do you handle this sort of behaviour in 5 year old's without damaging their natural curiosity?

[Flip]

I posted around Easter time because ds1 had been involved in playing a game where touching each others private bits was involved. This incident was witnessed by dh at a kids play facility. At the time dh and I spoke to ds1 and said that these games shouldn't be played and ds1's friends mum also spoke to her child but we decided not to tell the other childs mum because he had been the instigator.

Ds1 came out with a choice phrase on Saturday of "lick my willy" to his dad. Obviously this wasn't acceptable so we spoke to ds1 about it and he said that the same boy as before had made him play a game of licking willies whilst on a school trip last week. This game happened the seat in front of where the teacher was sat and ds1 told me that the other boy said that they had to hide from the teacher. Ds1 claims that this other boy licked his willie three timea and that he was forced to lick the other boys wilie because he wouldn't stop telling him to.

I told ds1's friends mum about this latest incident this morning and she telephoned the other boys mum straight away. The other boys mum was horrified and said that she was concerned because there had been previous incidents with yet another boy who had infact torn her sons foreskin by yanking it back.

So the question is, where do we go from here? The mother of the boy who I thought was the instigator wants everyone to get together with their children and the class teacher and talk it out. I however feel that informing the teacher would lead to social services being involved.

Is this natural childs play? Ds1 is my eldest so I'm not sure if it is normal or not. But this can't be allowed to carry on because ds1 thinks it's all right for anyone to touch him in that way. I've tried to explain it's not and about bad people but how far do you go.

I'll see if I can find the other thread and link to it.

Thanks in advance for any words of advise you can offer.

Flip ,
how did it go this morning ? Thinking of you.

God, I missed this flip, how awful. I agree, the school need to take it seriously. I was also one of the people who said it was normal on the other thread but this isn't imo.

Flip, what's happening. Am going out shortly but will look at thread when I get back. About 11-ish. Hope you are okay considering the circumstances. I also hope that because you are the only parent prepared to do something about this/raise the alarm, that you are not feeling like an upstart. Please don't worry about what the Headmaster will think of you/your son.

I'm sure we're all thinking about you.

Yes, I'd like to echo ChicPea, I certainly am. I can't get this whole thing out of my head, and I really feel for Flip having to carry the can like this.

Sorry I haven't reported back sooner. I've been trying to put it out of my mind without much luck.

Dh and I went to the school at 8.30 this morning and the head saw us. We told him everything we knew in detail including hear say from other parents because I'm getting no backing from them now. As soon as I started telling him he sat up and the colour drained from his face and he heard every word we said. I believe now that the school didn't understand the gravity of the situation until then.

I decided that I'd lay all my cards on the table and not be ashamed to use graphic words in a church school. So I told him that what the children were doing was oral sex. I also told him them I felt that ds1 had been violated by this other child. I made it quite clear to him that if these children had been one or two years older I wouldn't be sat talking with him, it would be the police. He was definitley listening and he has asked me to keep him informed of anything else that ds1 says.

The head told me that he is going to get the parents back in of the other boy and discuss this with them. I've told him I expect answers and that I expect a full investigation. He in return has assured me that the children will be discussing this at length in assembly and with their teachers about appropriate touches. He's also positioned more staff in the lower playground and all of the staff are being informed at the staff meeting they had this evening.

So I'll have to wait and see what's happening. I'm not taking ds1 out of school when he struggles with changes in his routine anyway. I'm just learning to ask him the right questions to get an answer.

I'll let you know as and when I know things.

Flip, I just caught this thread --- how horrible for you and your family! FWIW I agree with the others about contacting the police. Sending you lots of hugs and support....

Well done Flip. Fingers crossed that they sort something out soon.

here's to you hope things start to be sorted now

I am glad the school takes it seriously, I suspect that they would have to take further advice from social services or police liaison, it still comes back to what that child knows and how deeply inapprpariate it is, my son is 10 and would know the terms or actions for oral sex and he is pretty worldly.
Thsi child has without doubt being exposed to something whether it be innocently or not and that neds to be looked into as it is having MAJOR repercussions.
For your sons sake prob best to play it down within his earshot, no point giving him sexual hang ups aged 5!
I do hope everyone comes out of this stronger wiser and unharmed.
Well done for being so forthright and blunt...
xx

Flip, my post must have crossed yours. I'm glad that you were able to see the head today. I hope you get some answers soon.

flip, I think you definitely did the right thing in telling the head the details. I'm not sure where things go from here, but I hope the next few days make things clearer for you.

I am absolutly gobsmacked that the other parents are not going in to see the head themselves, with or without you. But have I misunderstood you? You have said this boy did things to at least 6 other children, and other parents have confided in you. What do those parents feel should be done? Do they want to play it down and talk to their children at home? Are they trusting the school to sort it out? Are they going to see the teacher without telling you - or each other? It just doesn't make sense to me. Earlier they were trying to make you spokesperson, then today you said you are getting no backing from them. If I was a parent in that situation, of course I would want to see the teacher myself. I would want to do everything I could for my child. I imagine I would be in close contact with the other affected parents, too.

Hugs.

flip, I have only just read this thread and I'm so sorry to hear of what your DS and other children have experienced at the hands of this other child. I'm sorry that other parents aware of what's going on have retracted their support, I'm quite shocked in fact because if I found that my DD was being abused by another child I would do everything possible to prevent it from happening to her, or any other children again. I really feel what 'X' has been doing is abuse and far beyond natural curiosity. I recently took part in a 'recognition and referral' social services course regarding child abuse. One of the indicators of child sexual abuse is indeed a sexual awareness beyond the child's years. Licking bits and bobs, anal insertion and a ripped foreskin are well out of bounds of expected behaviour for that age group. I don't want to patronise but really think the way you are dealing with this is brilliant. I'm glad the head of the school sat up and took notice of what you told him this time, but if it were me, I would also inform the police. Schools are meant to form part of a child protection structure, along with social services, the police, G.P.'s etc. But there aren't always the relavently trained staff at every school, up to date with procedures and protocols. I think this is far to serious to leave anything to chance.

Flip ...
Well done you ... I also think you are dealing with this brilliantly.
I hope the school now takes action and does something to protect the children .... as well as young 'X' too ... he clearly needs help and protection too.
Hugs {{{{{}}}}}

Flip, I'm so glad to hear that things are being done. And am very impressed with the way you've handled it - from beginning to end. Sorry for not posting earlier; I have no advice for you. Just wanted you to know that if I am ever in a similar situation (from the start where you were wondering if it was innocuous until now when you've acted on the fact it's not) I will look back here and see what you did and follow your lead.

I hope things get sorted soon and think the school will be a much better place (in this aspect and many others, I'm sure) because you are a parent there.

Flip - I think you are doing a fantastic job in trying to get to the bottom of this, its just a shame that the other parents are not so keen to do whats right for their own kids. I have done a similar post about an incident that happened at my DD's school, she wasn't involved but I am still worried. Like you, I seem to be the only one kicking up a fuss. I hope the school does take this seriously and you get some answers.

Flip

I've only just seen this thread and I am asbolutely shocked, you have been great, but I am amazed about the other parents' behaviour, are they just relying ony ou to do their job? Or would they ahve done nothing anyway?

You've been very strong and did the right thing and it looks like the school is doing something about it too. I can't begin to think how I would feel if dd came home saying anything like that...

As everyone else has pointed it seems like this child whi started evrything has learnt these games from someone older, I can't believe a 5yr old could think of anything like that or be so obsessed as to try and do it with just about everyone!!

Best of luck we're all with you!!

I know it's been said before, but I've just read this full thread. I agree with those who are shocked - this behaviour goes way beyond mere curiosity or naughtiness. Whereever this child got their ideas from, the situation clearly needs to be looked at seriously.

It seems that there are other mums in your shoes too. What did they say or feel about what's been happening?