4 month old not in ANY sort of routine - What should I do?

[cruisemum1]

4mt old ds wakes ususally around 7ish but owing to erratic night feeding is ir is not hungry. Naps around 1-5 - 2hrs later but lenght of nap varies wildly. Sometimes feeds 2 hrs later sometimes 3. Naps for 30 mins to 1.5 hrs after that. I need some order in my life but as he sometimes doesn't feed a whole feed (bf) he is hungry shortly aftter. Also tried the bw EASY thing but that means that after eating he has activity for a couple of hours then sleeps just as he is due another feed. TBH i am totally confused. I have a dd who seemd textbook routine by comparison but it was 9 years ago so my memory has faded. WHAT SHOULD I DO????

This was our routine at 4 months.
7am get up and milk feed
9am nap 45 mins
11am milk feed
12pm nap for up to 2 hours(she usually only lasted 45 mins though before waking )
3pm milk feed
4.45pm 15 min catnap in car/ swing or cot
5pm small milk feed to get thru to bathtime
6.30 bath
7pm milk feed and bed
11pm dreamfeed we'd get her out of bed in her sleep for milk feed and put her straight back

Now that she's 9 months, her routines are very set and she no longer cries when put down and sleeps 2hrs for her 2nd nap.

My advice re: erratic night feeding is to set times when you want to feed so that her day doesn't go out of sync e.g. if she wakes at 6 am, leave her to wake and play in cot if she will. he feed at 7 as normal. The dreamfeed was an excellent way of getting her thru the night. We stopped ot at 6/7 months.

My DS never had a 'set' routine, i literaly went along with him. He would have his milk every 3ish hours, sleep every 3ish hours and be wanting entertaining inbetween!
I was totally freaked out about the routine thing and tried my best... but in the end it just kinda slipped into place.
He's now nearly 9 months and is in a great little routine... so i'd say keep doing as you are.
You may however want to try and fill him up on as much milk as possible during the day to reduce the night feeds. (then at least you'll get some sleep!)

puffling - that sounds exactly what I am looking for! Please tell me what you think of my latest scheme....
My thoughts today were;
to wake and feed at 7am even if he has woken and fed 1 hour earlier.
Washed/dressed ready for day
Take dd to school at 8:15am - he usually will nap during this, sometimes for up to 1.hr 45mins
wake if not already and feed at 10am
play etc.
go out and about so he can nap in pram/carseat around 12ish - no telling how long this nap will be and the rest of the naps kinda hang on this one iyswim...
feed again around 3 jsut before school run where hopefullyl he will have his final daily nap before bath feed and bed at 7ish

with both of mine i waited to see each childs preferred routine. the hv tried to force ds1 into one, coming round every day to enforce it(!) but it just stressed me out as i was constantly watching the clock. he soon showed the routine he liked, and no he is not up all night etc. he is now 17m and goes to bed between 7 andhalf past and gets up between seven and half past. he has dinner at 12 then goes to sleep for 1.5/2 hours at 1.30.
ds2, 3months, is still a bit all over the shop but he is gradually falling into place with ds1. his main daytime nap is at the same time and that is most important to me as i get a rest and sometimes put my head down too- lol.
i think you need to not fret if you can and accept it can take a long time.

Hi Cruisemum1
your suggested routine sounds fantastic. Try it and you will see that after a few days ds will fit into it. My son didn't fit a routine until 4 months. Although at that time I noticed the 3 hour feed/play/sleep thing worked, which is what you are suggesting. Don't let ds sleep longer than an hour, wake him up (unless you need time for yourself!) so that you can really implement this successfully. We did 7am feed, play(kick legs, jiggle toys, sing songs/watch me tidy house ;0) and then put him down to sleep at 9ish. We didn't do the timings too rigidly but it really got him into the idea of what to expect next and what was expected of him by doing things in this set order. We were able to dream feed in the night but I wouldn't put the light on and I left him in the cot, just held the bottle otherwise he thought it was time to get up. Good luck.

My DS (now 4) never had a rigid routine whilst he was a baby/toddler.

My DD on the other hand has a fairly constant routine, and, for example, on Christmas Day we didn't bath them cos we thought they needed to go straight to bed - it put her completely out of sync and she didn't sleep through like normal!

Agree with Nip to some extent - I would follow some of the advice on here if you think it might work, but I wouldn't get too hung up on routines yet - he may take a few more months to settle down a bit e.g. when he is weaned, or he may be like my DS and never be into a consistent routine.

HTH

hi all, thanks for all posts. my main concern/hiccup is that ds often doesn't take naps of more than 30 mins which throws everything off course . he wakes tired, cranky and not well rested. any solutions? also how to get him napping in his cot without relying on motion or a boob?

He will get better. Dd was like this, inconsistant to put it mildly. Totally random napper, and still is at 6 1/2 months old.

Nap length time started to improve at about 5 months, although still wakes up after 40 mins or so now sometimes. Feeds have settled into pattern, but at 4 months were still very random. Sleeping when should be eating etc etc.

V.hard for me as I love routine (sad I know). Also had same, ds put himself into routine at 6 weeks, dd completely haywire! Just go with the flow

After 30 mins sounds like he's come to the end of REM cycle and hasn't yet learnt how to settle himself back to sleep.
Assume you put him down for his naps in his cot in a darkened room and follow the same (brief) routine each time you put him down. What happens if you leave him for 10 minutes? Does he settle himself?
Am currently trying to teach a 3 week old to settle. Have unearthed ds1's lullaby/swirling-pictures-on-the-ceiling thing which plays for 10 minutes. I also make sure he is well-swaddled. (Would tucking your ds in tightly or a sleeping bag have a soothing effect?) I also bought a dummy today (though for the main lunchtime nap I actually gave him half his 2 pm feed when he hadn't settled after 45 minutes). I like the BW's PUPD technique too.
My aim is to always have ds napping 1.5-2 hours after he last woke and for the mid-day nap to be 2-2.5 hours and for the am and pm nap to last an hour each. Assume the am and pm naps would be shorter for your ds. Mid-day one probably about the same. Also assume your ds can go slightly longer on staying awake.
Currently I seem to spend all of my time either persuading my ds to sleep or trying to wake him up (or feeding him). Ds1 became an excellent sleeper though so am totally convinced of the need to persevere.
FWIW ds1 was very hard work as a baby. Found the first step to making life easier was to feed according to a schedule, so he wasn't left too long between feeds and so the feeds were structured such that he got most of his milk during the day. Have carried this on for ds2, even if this means I often wake him to feed him. Did do one day of demand feeding him (boxing day) as was out all day and wanted the easy life (too hectic a day to follow any routine). He was snacking for 5-10 minutes every 1-2 hours for most of the day. Led to 2.5 hours stress when we got in because I knew I had to make sure he got a full feed at 9:30 to sleep well in the night but haven't had any problems food-wise since.

Yes deffo related to sleep cycles. Have spent what feel like years trying to make dd extend her naps, but despite my very thorough efforts, still has days where we have 30 min naps.

However when she reached 5 months old, there was a big improvement, but as I she still has the odd day here and there

Hi cruisemum1, I didn't try to force my ds (now nearly 1) into a routine either, the EASY one confused me as well! What worked for me was keeping his feeds at a set time and I didn't let him sleep more than 30mins past a feed. It took a week or two for him to settle into it but I found that his naps all became set as well and he would sleep better at night.

hth

pudding, fizz and yomello - I think you are all right. Teh key is in having regular feeding times/nap times then the rest should fall into place . Today was not a total disaster with ds having a good 1hr50mins this morning (this is sometimes all he manages all day!) then another 2 x 30 mins during the afternoon. he has gone to bed now but goodness knows what the rest of the night holds in store . I think the key is to keep all feeds and naps at as regular times as poss - they have to be a bit flexible tho as dd has after school things a couple of times a week which means mealtimes are thrown by 15 - 30mins either way but I guess that is not too drastic an alteration is it? I am defo gonna persevere on the naptime thing though so thanks for your input.
yomello - lol at suggestion that his naps take place in his cot! I would loovvvvee them to but sadly, no - I have to troll the streets with him in his pram or he naps in car seat on school run. I long for the day when I can put him in his cot and relax for a couple of hours....Your advice on this....

one more question - do you do wake, feed, activity, sleep OR
wake, activity then feed before sleep?

I always did wake, feed, activity and then at first sign of stroppiness implement going to sleep plan. Rocking, cuddling, singing lullabies. Wierd thing - ds is now 3 and will still occassionally ask for 'rock by baby'. I don't sing this to him anymore but obviously there are memories of this being a comforting thing.

Which ever happened first sleep or feed. She would not go in a routine for anyone-no willy way.

If she slept through a feed, I would feed her when she woke up. As I said, totally random child

Your plan sounds good. However, try to keep early morning feed to a minimum,or just give water, or if you dare see if he'll get himself back to sleep without a feed. Also incorporate the dream feed. He's probably partly waking out of habit.
Don't worry too much about his waking after short naps. As he gets older, they'll lengthen, although having them in a dark quiet room will help cement good habits. From my experience, I wouldn't allow a long nap in the morning even though he might want it. The result will often be that they then have a shorter lunch nap and are cranky till bedtime. Wake him after 45 mins of the morning nap and focus on lengthening the lunch naps. I give the lunch nap in the pushchair if we're out shopping, but I keep it to once a week as she won't sleep as long or get the same quality of sleep she gets in her cot.
Best wishes
dawnxx

ta again - well since resumption of school run things have been easier to sort. did feeds yesterday at 7,10,1,4 and 6:30pmish and three naps - 2 during school run and one in buggy on the go. Have done the same today but last night was horrendous! ds fell asleep around 7pm but woke at 7.30, 8,20 until around 10:00pm. A one point he was cooing and gurgling as if he had woken from a lovely nap! I was not amused. he never used to do this..... Then he would not go into his cot and cried each and every time he went in. He finally settled down in there around 2am I think (memory rather fuzzy at that time of the morning!) He was awake at 6:45am which suited me as I have to be up at 7 anyway. Now I am worried he is getting too much sleep in the day! Will the anxieties ever stop

I think lots of sleep in day =lots of sleep at night.

At her best dd was having 5 hours during day, and 14 hours at night. I always found less sleep in day =bad night for both dc's.

Only ever woke them up from early evening nap about 6.00pm, rest of time let them sleep as much in day as they wanted. Never affected night time sleep. Of course they are all different..........

fizz - I know you are right. Just getting myself in a tizz because he has never actually stayed asleep this long before and after last night I am rather frazzled... I am hoping for a better one tonight. I guess he is just adjusting to his new found talent for sleeping

Leave him to explore the limits of his talent then

fizz- ds had has about 4 hrs naps today so I am hoping and praying for a good night. He did 1hr 45 ths morning, 1 hr 15 later in morning and 1 hr this afternoon. I guess I would be rather niaive to expect things to fall into place on the first good napping day but I do live in hope. Ever the optimist

good naps = good nights??? Baloney! my ds woke every two hours for a suck last night. he didn't feed as such, just wanted a comfort suck....Mind you he did settle beautifully in his cot from 7pm - 9:20pm so that is an improvement. What shoudl I do about night wakings without waking dh and particularly dd?

cruisemum - as someone else said maybe he's napping for too long in the morning versus afternoon? Perhaps also not getting enough exercise? If he sleeps in the car I would count that as a nap and try to encourage him to stay awake for longer in the morning.
I know we're not meant to wean until 6 months, but is he showing interest in real food? Sounds like he could be a pit peckish at times?
Re getting him to sleep in cot - I would put him down awake if you can, maybe as someone suggested music (dd loves a Mozart cd she has), and give him something that's nice and soft and smells of you as a comforter to help him relax?
It's always easier to advise someone else than oneself - my almost 2 yr old dd was singing at the top of her voice at 2am last night.
Best of luck xxx

cab - thanks for post. tbh i am just so relieved that he is napping at all in the day (he was averaging 90 mins total all day up until this week ) that i would rather just let him get into the habit before i start juggling times around. tho agree that they cd be reshuffled at a later date. i was wondering about hunger too but he just wants a comfort suck not a feed and wont take a dummy. as for napping in his cot, that'd be lovely but sounds like an imposssible dream right now....just so tired and want a quick fix!

You're right not to change too much at once. Just remember what evryone always tells us - it's just a phase.
Re middle of night. Even though it might disturb the rest of the family short term in the long term you'll all get better sleeps if you can get that sorted. Try to delay going in and see if baby resettles himself. I've got one of those baby monitors that play music - don't even have to get out of bed to turn it on. So if wee one not setlling, play the music a few times before I go through. Then if still not settled I'll go through but make it as short and sweet as possible.
If you're pretty sure he's definitely not hungry it might be better if your husband is the one to go in and maybe offer a cup or bottle of boiled water to help settle. (It would give you a rest for a few nights too!!!!).