question for mums of 'gentle' toddlers

[strangerthanfiction]

Hi, this will probably sound a bit neurotic. My dd is 19 months and is a very gentle soul. I mean she doesn't do rough-and-tumble type stuff, plays very quietly, has a quiet voice and is rather serious and independent. This is all absolutely fine but it does worry me when I see her trying to cope with other kids the same age and older. I take her to a few playgroups and she invariable gets knocked over constantly, has everything she's playing with ripped out of her hands or destroyed. Sometimes she gets very upset and just buries her head in my lap, others she's more stoic and just stands there looking confused and a bit wide-eyed. The thing is that at some point I'd quite like her to go to nursery and I just don't know how a child of her temperament will fit in or if she'll just have a really miserable time. I have to say I'm not saying my dd's an angel and all the others are monsters, they're not, they're lovely kids but are just more boisterous and out-going than dd. When I'm in this kind of situation with her I try to leave her to fend for herself as much as I can but I actually find it rather painful. She's also very small andl ight for her age and this of course brings out all my protective instincts.

I really hope I don't sound like a stupid old mother hen with this message. Any advice gratefully received.

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My ds is a gentle soul too and hated nursery - however that doesn't mean that other gentle toddlers wouldn't love it. Also, you may soon be quite surprised how assertive your dd will be in her own quiet way. My ds, if he really wants something, is very good at hanging on to it. I think you just have to be there for them, while encouraging them to get out into the world - it's a tricky balancing act though, isn't it? We're off to playgroup tomorrow (with me there too) and I am trying to give him more independence - although the fact that some nasty little brute bit his face there has rather set thing back.

Awwww, bless Your DD sounds like a little treasure, stf. It is hard to see them getting bolstered about by the older or bigger kids, I have quite often had to restrain myself from going over to the parent of the other child and giving them a piece of my mind! I think in more cases I am more upset/angered by other kids behaviour than she is ! For me the only real answer is to keep socialising her, I felt it was the only way she would develop the skills to manage in that sort of environment. Obviously if something is getting out of hand then I will intervene, but there will be many times to come when DD will be in this sort of situation and I won't be there to help her sort it out. But it is so heart wrenching to see your tiny baby (it feels like that at the time) being mistreated, it guts me everytime but I know that in the long run she will develop the skills to cope.

Thanks guys.

Yes, I know the answer is to keep 'socialising' her and leaving her to find her own way as much as possible. But she just looks so diddy next to the other kids. At the same time she is very independent - I've read some threads from moms with similar worries to me that have very 'clingy' babies. Dd isn't clingy at all, she likes her own space and playing on her own but she just finds it hard to do that with other kids around and I think she finds it confusing. As for me I find it excruciating! How am I going to cope when she goes to school??? Today was a particularly bad day at the playgroup - she got shoved really hard in the back and cracked her ribs on the steps of a slide, she had a kid knock her head into the side of a sink of water toys and split her lip and chin open and someone stole her teddy! This will probably explain why I'm being a bit wimpy this evening. I just felt like weeping all the way home and she was very quiet and a bit shaky for the rest of the day, just wanted to sit and look at her books.

You're not wimpy, stranger. You're just a loving mum, and it sounds like your dd had a horrible day! Poor sweetheart.

Oh stf , I've welled up now thinking of your little DD ! You are most definitely not wimpy, just a mum who loves her baby very much and has all the natural worries that come with it.

It's so hard isn't it sometimes being a mom to such a strange egotistic and yet totally vulnerable little creature? She's always breaking my heart. And also of course having me rolling round the floor with laughter! She's my only child and I won't have any more so she's incredibly precious. I love her as she is but I also hope she does get a little bit more robust as time goes on just so that she can hold her own a bit more.

My dd is a gentle little girl (24 months) who does kind of get lead around nursery by the other more confident children in her group. She avoids rough and tumble, but she seems to like going and the nursery nurses always say she has had a good day.
You could always try it for a bit to see if it works and talk to the staff at the nursery about your worries/concerns.

Thanks sobernow, how old is your dd?

At the moment I can't really think about a nursery. When she's turned 2 I'm going to think about it again. I think she'd probably settle more happily with the right childminder. She does like people a lot, always says hello to people in shops and our lift and has become quite well known for her friendliness locally. Actually, come to think of it, she likes adults a lot more than kids. In the playground she observes them like they're strange specimens and keeps her distance but always heads straight for their moms and makes her presence felt!

What a horrid day for you both

When my DD was a quiet and gentle toddler we gave up going to toddler group as it was just too much of a rough and tumble free for all.

However, she had no problems with nursery - I think most nurseries have lots of strategies for avoiding boisterous behaviour (eg limiting no. of children playing with particular activities; encouraging empathy) and should take particular care to ensure a gentle child does not suffer.

My DD is now 9, she is still quiet and gentle, but very confident and has sailed through all the "starting nursery/school/junior school" hurdles which have worried me silly beforehand. Your DD sounds lovely - I'm sure she'll learn to deal with the other children as she gets older

ds1 used to be very gentle - still is in many ways. He loved nursery - liked watching everyone.

Now he's started trying to get toys off others (he's 5 now) and tbh I preferred it when he didn't. It was easier when he was pushed around rather than doing the pushing. Mind you his 2 year old brother still manages to get stuff off him all the time.

I think you have to remember that even gentle kids don't really perceive the rough and tumble as something nasty (unless one particular child makes a bit of a beeline for another). DS1 didn't, looked a bit confused sometimes but that's all.

batgirl I think you're right about the difference between nursery and playgroups. At the latter there's no supervision at all and a lot of moms are enjoying letting their little ones go off to play while they have a chat. I really don't feel at all comfortable about saying something to someone else's child if they're being overly rough, though I did tell a little boy not to throw sand today as I know it's dangerous - my cousin had a scratched retina from sand in his eye when he was 5 and has had problems with his eye ever since.

Jimjams, yes, you're right too. Dd seems weirdly fascinated by watching other kids. The problem is she sort of gets in the way all the time as she just stands still staring and when she starts to play with something she really likes like the dolls house and someone else comes over and shoves her out of the way she just stands still again and watches looking a bit perturbed. She's never yet taken a toy from someone else or even tried to reclaim her own toy from someone who's taken it. But I guess she'll become more assertive in her own way in her own time.

She's a darling, sobernow, a real little darling. Yours sounds lovely too. Pity they can't meet up and play quietly together!

My ds also stands wide eyed in playgroups while all the other kids take his toys and push him over. He is also small and light.

The only time it falls to pieces is if the other kid is a good bit older and a bit more manipulative. At the weekend ds was playing with a ride on car and another kid grabbed it, no problem; he got another one, but then the kid decided that he wanted ds's and so it went on about 10 times. In the end ds lost patience and cried, and we took him away to another activity but we are glad we let the drama play out as we would have moved him much sooner and never known just how resilient he is.

its heartbreaking to watch i know. ds is a very loving little thing. he chatters away and isnt shy at all, but he doesnt do rough and tumble in any way whatsoever. the times i have seen toys snatched away from him and little monsters pushing him around have been too many to count. the worst thing about it is that i have to force myself not to get involved....theres no point me keep running in and saving him because i cant always be around to do this. i feel guilty not helping him but i do think he needs to learn to look after himself a bit..doesnt stop me from wanting to smack certain little bottoms though when i see kids being spiteful to him (especially as he offers toys he really wants to other kids if he thinks it will make them happy). he got head butted by a child three years younger at the weekend and had a nose bleed but he would never hit a smaller kid back. i just told him the little boy wasnt old enough to know better and to keep away from him. the thing that upsets me most is that i feel i have to discourage his kind nature because he'll be taken advantage of all his life. very very sad.

This thread has been so interesting. Mostly because I had a minor panic last night about the way my dd reacts to other babies in social situations. Shes 10 months and generally a very merry soul, loves other mums and watching big girls and boys in the playground. But whenever my friends with babies of dimilar ages get together, she always seems to be at the edge of things - isn't remotely into snatching things, touching other babies, and can find them a bit overwhelming. I suppose it's completely natural in some respects - insofar as with adults she's pretty much assured of a positive response, but babies are more unpredictable and "nasty things" may happen, they may not smile (she's a real smiler), they may grab, fall on her etc. But I worry about whether she's going to end up being the wallflower, because I was in many ways. My mother is incredibly sensible (I'm the insane one), saying why on earth would you want a baby that grabs and pokes other babies. But I watched a video which I'd taken of the latest get-together, and all the other babies were having fun rough and tumbling it, and dd had crawled over our bookshelves and was just getting on with what she usually does - emptying them - while facing the other way.
How silly am I being????

strangerthanfiction (great name btw) - I think we all have this type of worry in one way or another and it sounds like you have had a really rough time of it. No wonder you are bothered about her after seeing her mistreated so much - even if it was all accidentaql innocent "play". I am amazed you lasted the session - good for you sticking at it and giving her the chance to find her own feet. It is so difficult letting go and allowing them to grow up knowing it means getting physically and emotionally hurt.
I have a lovely friend who is so upset by her DD who is constantly in scrapes (she was 2 at Christmas) to the point that she feels she doesn?t want to take her anywhere anymore. She is so worried she has even been to her HV about it. Her problem is just the opposite - her child constantly lashes out at other children, grabbing their hair or scratching their faces (incl, my two children). I feel so sorry for her because she is always distraught when her child does it and has tried every tactic and strategy to get her to stop - everyone keeps telling her it is ok and that it will be just a phase, not to worry but it is breaking ehr heart. I guess I am trying to explain that we all worry regardless of how our child is - too quiet, overly confident, aggressive, too much the leader (I have a bossy one that tells all the others what to do and I hate it). As others have said, given your love and support, with time she will learn to stand on her own two feet and deal with what life throws at her. I guess our job is just to keep providing the opportunities for them to learn these lessons by taking them to playgroups and gym clubs etc. and beign there to pick up the pieces.

I remember someon saying on TV recently that being a parent has taught them that they have just plunged to a new level of vulnerability as they have realised just how much they can be hurt through the pain of their children - it struck a chord with me.

Thanks for the wonderful and helpful replies. It's good to hear other people's stories.

nightowl, dd does that too, offers something she's spent ages getting to other children. And seems rather upset if they don't want it! And yes, it is very sad to think that we have to 'discourage' their sweet natures in order to 'toughen them up.'

Pook, my dd is the same. In a room full of kids she has her back to them, quietly getting on with whatever it is she likes to quietly get on with!

StripeyMouse, I've often thought about this from the other side and imagined a time when dd will become more assertive and grab toys etc. I feel for your friend too it must be difficult to deal with a child who's 'aggressive' towards others. I have less sympathy for some of the moms at the playgroup though who don't seem the slightest bit bothered what their kids are up to. And sometimes it's almost as though the kids are playing up because no-one's paying any attention to them. Sometimes they come over to where I am with dd because they want to 'join in' with some more constructive play and that's fine, the trouble is that they're so much more boisterous and noisy than dd that she misses out. That latter situation though is the one where I think she'll develop her social skills much better. There's not much she can learn from being bashed about is there?

Am I right in assuming that the parents are present whenever she currently gets together with other children. This means that you have x amount of children working to x amount of rules. This changes at nursery, they all have to work to the same rules. Sure you will get the more rough and tumble ones and the quieter ones. My dd always seemed very shy and quiet but has really amazed me at how well she has dealt with nursery and school (she is now 7). Her old nursery teacher used to hate the Christmas parties saying that the kids always get mixed messages and misbehave when their parents are there.

stf, probably repeating stuff here but I just wanted to agree that mums and toddlers groups are not such a good environment for encouraging socialisation as a good daycare nursery - much less structure, more children, the whole difficulty of what the ground rules are when the other kids' parents are around etc etc. If you could find the right nursery for just a couple of sessions a week perhaps, that might help your dd to gain confidence in a social setting that is carefully structured and thought through. Personally I think my son gets far more from his nursery than from the toddler groups I take him to (though he is at the opposite end of the spectrum and needs help to calm down a bit!)

Strangerthanfiction - thank you so much for starting this thread - my dd (18 months) is very similar - happy, and confident at home - loves reading and cuddling her toys, yet at baby and toddler group she spends most of the time staring around herself at the other children (confused) and getting knocked over by the bigger kids - which means I spend the whole time taking her around activities and constantly fearing for her personal safety.

Your words really made me cry (still crying now!) - it absolutely breaks your heart and sometimes it can be so difficult to stick it out until the end of each play session. Thank you for making me realise that I'm not the only one - soemtimes I feel like such a neurotic and paranoid mother! And thankyou to everyone else with the advice : )

I watched my 5 year old DD happily skip on ahead of me to school this morning and thought of this thread (didn't get a chance to post on it yesterday) It brought back memories of going to toddlers with DD and how stressful it was as it was always her who got knocked over etc. I remember wondering how on earth she was going to cope at nursery, school etc. I needn't have worried, she was absolutely fine. She's grown in confidence & made friends. She'll never be the most outgoing child in the world but she is happy and those toddler days are now a distance memory, it does get easier.