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I NEED SOME SUPPORT RIGHT NOW!! Help please...

86 replies

Flip · 25/05/2004 17:42

We've just lost it with ds1. He hurt himself and I picked him up and sat him on my knee and hugged him. While I was hugging him he tried to strangle me and really hurt me. I pushed him off me and told him I'd fallen out with him and he went upstairs to get changed. Dh went upstairs to ask him what he wanted for tea and ds1 hit him where he shouldn't for no reason. Dh lost it and slapped his legs and then locked him in his room.

I've just spent the last five minutes listening to ds1 trashing his room and dh telling me how he wants to leave home and hates coming home from work at night.

So as calm as you like I went upstairs with a bin bag and went into ds1's room. "Whatever isn't picked up in one minute goes in my bag and you don't see it again!" Give me strength to go back and bin everything. Give me strength to carry on being calm when really I'm wrecked inside.

I haven't bothered changing my name. I didn't see the point. That way anyone who want's to help knows what I'm going through already with ds1.

The breaking has started again.....

OP posts:
Jimjams · 25/05/2004 18:28

that he won't let you hug him. Is there anything he likes doing thats quite quiet. I never punish my son after a meltdown (although if people havn't experiences one that can seem like pandering to it) - the whole thing is too awful for him and takes too much out of him.

Jimjams · 25/05/2004 18:30

Not necessarily. DS1 is fairly severe and we spent the whole of his 3rd year being told he "definitely isn't autistic". Yeah right, although the signs were mild there were plenty there. He was diagosed at just over 3- could have been dxed at 18 months imo.

Somewhere in SN there is a good checklist for PDD (mild autsim). It gives a "score". I have no idea where it is though- anyone know?

littlemissbossy · 25/05/2004 18:32

Flip, I'd follow the advice you've had here already, go see your GP and ask for a referral asap... I did this and my dss is currently being assessed ... my only mistake was to leave it as long as I did before asking for help. Has everything calmed down now?

luckymum · 25/05/2004 18:34

Flip - I agree with Jimjams. My ds2 isn't AS but he used to lose it like this on a regular basis - the times I've binned his videos and stuff you can't count. Try not to worry about SS even if school call, which I doubt they would, they will see that you are doing your absolute best to get him some help.

Hope you and dh can sort his together - once he's calmed down (ds) sit and have a cuddle and hopefully once he's in bed you and dh can come to some sort of agreement about how you can handle things.
I think kids can get depressed - something to talk about with the psychologist maybe. Can you ring them tomorrow and push for the assessment?

HTH

Flip · 25/05/2004 18:34

How can he suddenly want me? I don't get him at all. He's shouted me into his room and said he wants to get in the bath. Dh and ds2 have just got out so I said okay. He insisted I carry him into the bathroom. All this from not wanting me anywhere near him. Is it any wonder I'm completely baffled?

OP posts:
Aero · 25/05/2004 18:37

Agree - yes young kids can get depressed. Ds1 was depressed (age 4 then) two yrs ago during a long period of illness. Also dd low now following arrival of ds2 (now 19 wks). Also ds1 has child in his class with anxiety issues and is on meds for it so it is v possible for little guys to feel depressed. Not a all your fault. Please be kind to yourself.
ps Thanks Coppertop.

coppertop · 25/05/2004 18:38

Sounds a lot like ds1 after a melt-down. You can have anything up to an hour of screaming, kicking, biting, hitting etc where he won't let you near him. He just gets so overwhelmed by it all. Once he's calmed down he wants to get back to doing whatever is part of his normal routine.

I think the PDD link was KPB's (now BlossomHill?). I think the thread was called something like "Autism is...." or Asperger's is..."

Jimjams · 25/05/2004 18:38

He didn't want you near him because he had lost control and couldn't cope with anyone near him. It would have been further overload. Now he's regained control he's just upset so wants his mum. Exactly how it is with my son- goes from killing me to just sitting in a heap crying on my lap.

I think its important if you suspect AS to push to get assessment as life gets so much easier for the child (and therefore you!) if everyone (especially schools!) are AS aware iyswim.

Flip · 25/05/2004 18:39

The GP has seen ds1's behaviour first hand and she reffered him to the phycologist. I'm worried sick about being labelled as an over anxious mother. With all the bad behaviour from ds1 and ds2's rashes and breathing problems I feel as though I'm never away. And that doesn't include the times I have to go for my PND or thyroid.

I feel cornered. I've asked for help so many times with ds1. His health visitor came weekly. I did over a dozen sessions with his last phycologist even though I didn't rate him because he had no kids and was about 20. I am trying and I seem to be the only one. Dh says the nothing wrong with him until he goes off the scale like this. Then it's all forgotten for dh when he goes off to work in a morning. Then he comes home at night and the shit hits the fan again and I've already had it from school by that point.

Sorry, I'm rambling...

OP posts:
AussieSim · 25/05/2004 18:39

Gosh Flip, I've just taken a bit of time to catch up with your situation so that I didn't ask needless questions etc, and I see you are in a tough spot. It sounds like you are the rock in the family though, which with everything going on must be really tough. I wish your DH could be more supportive of you. Is your mum back soon?

I guess you are waiting for DS1 to be assessed and hopefully they can recommend a course of treatment that will make him more manageable and happy. I guess until then you can only wing it and do your best and try and avoid things that set him off.

Don't beat yourself up obviously you are not to blame for any of it. Anyway, not much help but lots of hugs.

Flip · 25/05/2004 18:45

FIL has just phoned. Asked how things were. I said I didn't want to talk about it so he started asking me questions about what had happened. Several times I said I couldn't discuss it and he just carried on. There aren't words strong enough at the moment to describe the... ..better not.

So then he said, can I talk to ds1 and ask him if he wants to sleep on Friday. I'm obviously talking to myself. I said we'd have to wait until Friday and he said, whatever he's done can't be that bad. So I just said, I'll tell you in my time when I've dealt with things and until then we're not discussing what's happened or him sleeping on Friday. Then I hung up.

My mum's back on Saturday and I can't wait. At least when she asks me stupid questions I can tell her they're stupid and to stop getting on my case. Not that she listens either.

OP posts:
mckenzie · 25/05/2004 18:48

nothing profound to add Flip but just wanted to offer my sympathy and support.
We've just started at the Child Guidance Serivce (referred by the health visitor) and the time between the letter arriving saying we were on the list and the first appointment was nowhere near as long as they had implied it would be. Have you been waiting long? I've been impressed so far and I hope with all my heart that you get some help from them to.

coppertop · 25/05/2004 18:49

Dp's/dh's tend to find it more difficult to accept that there might be a problem with their child. My dh himself has been unofficially diagnosed with AS (by the Paed who dx'd ds1) but even he refused to face up to ds1's difficulties at first.

maomao · 25/05/2004 18:52

Flip, just wanted to say sorry that you're all going thru this. Lots of hugs to you!!!

gothicmama · 25/05/2004 18:53

Agree with scrummy hope it works out -

Flip · 25/05/2004 18:54

Thanks everyone. Things are quiet so far. He's playing in the bath like nothings happened.

I've been waiting three weeks or so for an appointment and even the school nurse has chased it up. Which is how I know he's been accepted on their books. I'm going to call her in the morning and tell her I need help now.

I'm sure it will be round two in the morning. He's still insisting he isn't going to school. Something's happened and he isn't talking about it. Maybe that's what's set him off and we were he out.

OP posts:
zebra · 25/05/2004 18:59

Thanks for not changing your name, Flip. What you describe is pretty typical in our house... not daily... but... used to be once a week? Lately more like once a month, so getting less frequent. Only DS probably isn't quite as violent as you describe. And he isn't depressed or AS (don't ask me why, I just know he isn't). He's just 4. About 5pm today cuddled up on my lap telling me he wanted to kill me, daddy and his sis today... I just heard it as him expressing his feelings -- he was cross because his 2yo sis hadn't played a game he wanted to play. Soon we were reading stories... has since gleefully greeted his dad coming home from work and helped me make some home-made pizza.

Anyway, nights when DS behaves like that is usually when we crack open a bottle of wine... Good luck, whatever the assessment decides.

carlyb · 25/05/2004 19:00

Flip - everybody else has given you such good advice that I havent got much to add, also ds is only 20 months so I cant add from any experience.
All I can say is that it seems to me that this is not personal. Ds loves you and his behaviour isnt because of you - and although this is hard, remember it is not your fault, he isnt meaning to be angry against you - he is just confused and cant deal with his feelings inside.
I remember when I was little I used to tell my Mum I hated her and I would tell my teacher of her! Ofcourse I didnt mean it.
You are doing a great job and no wonder you feel like this - you are in it day after day. My ds already has wopper tantrums and bits and scrates. As the time I feel like it is the end of the world. Wait until the dust settles and you will feel better.
As for the inlaws - dont they just know when to make things worse!!
anyway I am rambling - dont worry about what your dh said - he said it out of frustration and didnt mean it.
hugs to you (())

zebra · 25/05/2004 19:03

Oh, yes, DS refused to stay at playgroup this afternoon today, too (Tuesdays they do double sessions, morning and afternoon). He often threatens at night (when he's most tired or feeling most stroppy) that he won't go to playgroup the next day -- next morning he's forgotten about the sulk and trundles off happily after all.
I think he's still tired from us over-doing it this last weekend.... and one of the other boys teased him by calling him 'Jack', which was just what he needed to be set over the edge.

frogs · 25/05/2004 19:13

Poor you, Flip, and poor little boy, too. I don't know your whole story, but will try and say something useful as another owner of a nearly-5 little boy.

I don't know anything about the SN end of things, but my ds, who has a very sunny and easy-going nature, good social skills and doing ok at school has also had tremendous rages over the past year or so, particularly straight after school. He comes out spoiling for a fight, and will keep pushing with the most ridiculous things until we're all shouting. At other times it just blows up out of the blue, and again lead to screaming tantrums from him and me biting my tongue to avoid joining in his tantrum (I don't always manage this...)

I've thought a lot about what's been going on and have come to the conclusion that being a four- or five-year old boy is incredibly difficult. There seems to be the whole hormone and peer-group thing going on that makes them want to rush around kicking and smashing things up on the one hand; but on the other, most of the little boys I know are also very sensitive and loving, and very thoughtful (often more so than my dd1 (8) and her friends).

I think the boys are really being pulled in two directions at once, and often find it incredibly difficult to hold it all together, particularly if there is any external stress going on (school, siblings, whatever). I've tried really hard to find a reliable solution that doesn't make it all worse -- it's very hard not to lose your temper when they're going out of their way to wind you up, but I found trying to remind myself that it was a sensory/emotional/intellectual overload and largely beyond his control helped (a bit).

The other thing that helped us a bit was to be very up front about the emotions involved, including how his behaviour affected us. So I often say: 'Are you trying to annoy dd1? I wouldn't do that, you'll just make her grumpy and horrible.' Or: 'If you shout at me, I'll end up yelling back, and we both hate it when that happens, don't we?' It doesn't always work, and you sound like a slightly crazed Joyce Grenfell, but it does sometimes help.

I found that confrontation, however tempting it is, just led to the kind of meltdown that you describe. I found it easier to deal with his unreasonableness if I reminded myself that it must be even worse for him to be at the mercy of all these powerful emotions that he doesn't understand. Sometimes when he's been hysterical on the floor I've said 'Poor you. It's horrible being so angry, isn't it?' Sometimes he'll let me pat him, sometimes not. If he won't, or he shouts 'Go away' or worse, I say 'All right, I'll come back in five minutes and make sure you're OK.' or 'If you need a cuddle, you can come down and find me.'

He seems to have a very powerful sense of pride, and the fear of losing face means that, although he needs cuddles, it's impossible to ask, or even to accept. This is hard to break through -- distraction sometimes works, as does humour, sometimes he just has to get over it by himself.

These are just random ramblings really, in the hope that you find something that might work for you. He is just a very small powerless little creature underneath all that anger, and it can't be an easy place to be for him either.

Hope things get better for you soon.

Jimjams · 25/05/2004 19:14

agree with coppertop abut dh's. Mine is fantastic now, but when I began to have worries would not discuss it with me at all. I had to hide all my autism stuff under the bed....

Jimjams · 25/05/2004 19:18

The thread with the PDD scoring test in it is here Quite near the end of the thread- the link is in one of binkie's posts. I'd have a go at that- it seems to be fairly reliable judging by the results we all got doing it. It's easy to do as well and would be more ammo to get a referral (if he comes out PDD- may come out not PDD!)

Janh · 25/05/2004 19:39

Flip, I'm so sorry, I missed all this (getting tea) - not sure I could really say anything helpful anyway but I'm glad to hear he's come round to wanting hugs. He doesn't hate you! Hope you can find out what triggered this and keep the ILs at bay. Hugs.

roisin · 25/05/2004 19:51

Hi Flip - sorry I missed this too.

I would echo Frogs' post almost word for word about my just-5-yr-old, and would have applied well to my ds1 when he was that age too.

What I really find difficult about a meltdown, is afterwards the kids just seem to shake it off and make a new start ... go off to sleep like angels ... and I'm left a complete emotional wreck.

Bettybloo · 25/05/2004 19:57

Flip - I haven't got anything to add to all the excellent advice others have already given you, but wanted to offer support. Sod it if you get labelled an anxious mother or anything else - keep pushing, you need help now. I think a lot of boys go through this terrible rage, mine used to get a knife and thtreaten to stab me or himself,(he never actually even came close, and the strength of his emotion used to clearly terrify him and he really needed hugs afterwards) but there's obviously so much other stress in your life right now that things are escalating for you all. I know what it's like to deal with this with an unsupportive dp and I really feel for you. ((((hugs))))