Am I being too harsh on dd? she is only 4...

[beinganevilstepmomsucks]

aaaaggggghhhhhh!i am an evil, horrible mummy.
dd will not do as she is told!! she will either deliberately ignore me or do the opposite.
at bedtime at the minute, she is getting out of bed and playing loudly with her toys after lights out "sleeptime." our response to this, if we hear her playing, is to go into her room, not speak to her or tell her off, but just remove whatever she is playing with and go away again. in the morning she is told why x toy has been taken away and explained to that she can have it back when she can go to bed like a good girl. she messes around like this about every 6 weeks or so, so she knows the drill so to speak, and we find it usually works really well.
god this is getting long, sorry.
dd is currently in her room crying her eyes out because...
last night was the second night in a row she had toys taken away. this morning i went into her room to help her get ready and found that she had nicked back some of the toys i had taken and tried to hide them. she was also embarking on a mass art project with paper everywhere which she knows she is not allowed to do in her bedroom.
i kept calm and just said "dd, you are being very naughty and making me very sad and cross. can you tell me what it is that is making me sad and cross?"
sure enough, she told me straight away exactly what she was doing to make me sad and cross! which has just made me crosser, the fact that she knows she is being naughty!!
again, evil mummy has removed toys.
and there's more...
i then said "dd your clothes are on your chair, please get dressed like a good girl."
dd has just come out of her room having put on completely different clothes and tried to hide the ones that were out.
me "dd have you done as you were told and got dressed like a good girl?"
dd shakes head.
me (said in firm and disappointed tone)"dd please go back into your bedroom as mummy is very cross with you and doesn't want to see you for a while. I am getting very tired of you not doing as you are told."
i have kept my calm god help me though inside i am raging. it all sound so petty written down, especially the last bit. i am just sick to the back teeth of her deliberate misbehaviour. she doesn't get attention for it (which just seems to make her worse) and playing up instances when she is good/giving her attention seems to make no difference at all. not even sure if i'm going to post this now as it seems so petty...she is the child, i am the grown up....
oh sod it

shes only 4!surely the fact that she got dressed is good even if its not in what you want.also if shes in her room playing quietly,is it reallly that bad that shes not in bed,if she was running round house i could understand.i agree its not great she took back toys that you removed but maybe put them higher?

have you tried a positive reinforcement... a sticker or star chart with a small reward for every 5 things done or every day where she does as she is asked?

she is 4, and she is pushing all the time, and testing the limits and boundaries.....but you have to be consistent and have DHs back up[, which you do

so might be time to try a different way to encourage good behaviour

TBH , sounds like normal 4 yr old stuff! but it is frustrating and tiring nonetheless !

!!

Sounds like she sees it all as a game but you are doing well to stay calm. Pick your battles - does it really matter if she isn't wearing what you chose, could you allow her to pick some parts of it and then praise her for getting dressed by herself. Perhaps a reward system - sticker chart, pasta jar etc would encourage her to settle quickly. Maybe telling her to "be a good girl" is too vague and you need to be more specific like if you settle quietly after your story, stay in bed afer lights out etc you get a star . If she really isn't tired can you review bedtime and the routine leading to it (we use story tapes/books)

Take her on a special trip to the theatre, zoo, whatever - just you and her and have some special fun together. Sounds like you need to break through the routine and have an opportunity for a laugh and a cuddle. May be the rest will follow.

Hi - You are doing a fantastic job - you are acting like a grown up - not shouting at her like a banshee (which I am ashamed to say i probably would have done) - Don't have any advice to give - not that i think you need it at all - just wanted to give you some words of encouragement.

To put it in to perspective last night before going to sleep I prayed to God to help me be a better and less shouty mother to DD (6) ( I am not a God squadder) - we all find it hard from time to time and kids will push to find the limits - I know it's difficult but you really seem to be doing a fantastic job and are an inspiration to me (sorry ythat last bit sounds a bit stalkerish from a stranger but you know what I mean) Good luck

MC
x

I think it's absolutely fantastic that at four she can get dressed all by herself. Why does it matter at all that she is wearing different clothes? I know it is very annoying when children don't do as they are told (half the time my nearly two year old shrieks with joy and runs away naked when she sees me approaching with clothes) but I also think four year olds need a bit of autonomy and four year old girls especially love to choose their clothes.
I also think that just because she can pinpoint why you are annoyed with her does not mean that she does it to annoy you. ie you might have forgotten something important at work. You would know instantly why your boss was furious, but it doesn't mean you did it deliberately. I think wanting to play after bedtime once every six weeks is not a problem. I honestly don't think it is a big deal. Can you compromise, ie she can have a her nightlight or bedside lamp and look at books or toys in bed? My five year old ds has looked at books in bed for the last two years. I only tend to intervene if he is singing so loudly he is going to wake his sister.

oh thank you all so much for posting!
i do usually try to let little things go - of course it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things if she wears different clothes - that was just the straw that broke the camels back so to speak!
LIZ - she is a funny little girl who views life as a game bless her! i know really that this is all normal 4 year old behaviour but i just needed some other people to say it!
thank you all again so much for your help and ideas - now am calmer and can think reasonably!
you are all so kind xx

It sounds a bit like a military regime to me - no paper projects in bedroom, lights out, only the clothes I've put out etc etc

I think you need to chill a bit TBH.

It sounds like you are making both her and you totally miserable with impossibly high expectations of what is afterall just an over grown toddler.

I think you have just got yourself into a cycle of punitive behaviour management techniques - perhaps you should try to balance it out with reward based ones.

Are you really this mad at her over this - or is there something else that you are mad about and just transposing it onto your DD. It just sounds rather OTT - sorry

I can totally sympathise. When explaining to friend why my DD (3.5) was in such a bad mood I realised how petty and stupid it sounded. However, at the time I couldn't see that and we both got so upset I was crying as much as her.

My DD and I are VERY similar personalities which means we clash over everything. I want her to be a little girl for a long as possible but eill not accept bad behaviour and complete lack of respect. I try to stay calm (good on you for being able to) but sometimes I could just run away and never come back.

I read some advice on here a while ago and it really did help me; go into her room when she is asleep and just sit next to her and watch her sleep. Remember something funny she has said and the sound of her laughter, your heart will swell so much you will forget about the monster she was before. She will not be little for long and when she is 13 and screaming, stomping and slamming doors you will wish for your little girl back again!

Sorry, this is a really long post

FB x

i agree does it really matter what clothes she is wearing?

My dd is 4 and if she gets dressed herself she can wear what she likes pretty much!

We have a similar issue with wanting to do stuff after bedtime, I now say to her that as long as she stays in her room and puts herself to bed afterwards she can play with her toy farm or do some drawing etc, AFTER trying to go to sleep for a bit. This seems to work and she never plays for long, I guess she has nothing to rebel against iykwim! And she does put herself into bed. Sometimes after only a few minutes.

I would also try playing the ignoring game rather than the "mummy is sad and cross" as then she will not knwo she is winding you up and won't keep doing it (if you can!)

again, i know playing after lights out isn't the offence to end all offences, but she has terrible trouble getting up in the morning (not so bad in the holidays, awful for school!) and will insist on playing even if dropping with tiredness. all 3 dcs have a bedtime "routine" which includes reading/quiet play before lights out and it's not fair on the other 2 if she gets to be different. plus she doesn't play quietly at all but sounds usually like she is doing a DIY course!
at least i can laugh about it now. am off to make friends with dd again...wish me luck!
thanks again for your help, so much appreciated xx

I agree with Aloha.
It sounds as if, on the whole, she is a delightful and well-behaved child, and that possibly heavily structured 'discipline' routines a la Supernanny are too OTT for her and hse is rebelling. As all lively healthy 4 year-olds will do!
Having some relaxed rule-free fun and lightening up may help, too. Why can't she do a big project with paper in her room? Capturing the natural enthusiasm of 4 year-olds and sterring it to the good can go a long way. At 4 (and still at 5) DS had to be asked, cajoled and reminded to do all sorts of things.

sorry, x posted with last 5 or so messages.

She nicked the toys back I think because having them back 'when she can go to bed like a good girl' is too vague and open ended for her. She needs to be told much more specifically when.

It is great that you keep calm but again I think be specific, don't just wander in and take things; give her some choices so that she can exit the situation with some dignity, it's as simple as saying "you are making too much noise playing, and it's stopping you drop off...choose something quiet to take onto your bed. What will you take onto your bed?" Better still make this an agreement made before bedtime...then if she's up and playing you can go in and remind her that she chose a toy to be in bed with....if you have to go in a again, you will have to take it away until morning. Thus she gets the choice and ability to moderate her behaviour.

At 4 I think you still need to be this 'literal' with her. She won't be able to just 'be good'.....you have to tell her exactly how and give her ways of acheiving it that feed her sense of dignity. Four year olds have a HUGE sense of their own dignity!

As many others have said, let her choose her own clothes if she wants to; good on her for being able to get dressed alone! She is a girl and in my experience of girls of this age, they DO get quite 'controlling', so be realistic and choose your battles!

the clothes thing is you being controlling. I recognise stuff like that in myself. You have to stop yourself, because petty adults raise petty children. Sometimes I literally have to leave the room, muttering "It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, just because it matters to him does not mean it should matter to me..."

Why does it matter if she isn't actually lying down in bed? If she isn't tired when you say it's bedtime, I think she is being entirely reasonable to play with something in her room rather than lie there twitching, I know I can't.

How about letting her have a little torch, but with the instruction she can only use it for books. If she keeps getting up, the torch goes.

While I do understand how wearing little petty disobediances are, perhaps a think about how wearing having someone control every single aspect of your life must be? She is 4, and you have to treat her like 4 year old, totally with you on that, they can't make the choices of an adult - but if I were youUI would pick your arguments, becasue I think the things you have listed are really petty, sorry.

your comments have made me cry but i thank you for all of them. now for the truth - dd is actually dsd. i look after her and her brother and my own dd all the time. your comment have pointed out what i have feared about myself all along. this is not the kind of parent i want to be. this is not the kind of person i am. i am sick of feeling like a nazi dictator. please tell me how i can change. please.

I disagree with what people are saying about bedtime. Is she getting enough/too much sleep? If she is getting too much you may need to revisit bedtimes. But I know that if DS was messing about at bedtime but still had to get up in the morning he would be very tired and grumpy next day. So I definitely would not allow that.

I do agree with others about clothes. Maybe it would be better to choose her clothes together and on days when you are not that bothered - let her have more control. Maybe let her choose a skirt and then you say "now would you like this top or this top to wear with it". That kind of thing. I have been doing this for some time already with my 2yo.

Art projects not in the bedroom also fine IMO. But never an issue for me because those kind of things are stored in the kitchen.

Oh no, don't cry!!! God, nobody's perfect. I feel like a total shit now.

Just...

I kniow all the parenting books say that discipline is the key, but it's not. Love is. And love means sometimes letting them do something whether you want them to or not.

Think like this, it helped me to relax on my son, as I had issues in my own head about him turning into a thug.

you are a big and important person in her life. Every time you want to tell her off, think about how you would feel if the MD of your compny, who was a really nice woman, was speaking to you in the tone you are about to use on your kids.

"I am very cross and disappointed with you"

Yes, you would try to do better, but after a while, you would feel you can't do better, you must just be inherantly crap and you are gping to give up trying to please.

Just remember when you are dealing with her, she wants to please you nd she wants you to be proud, beut if you don't show any pride in her, she will stop trying.

Now, don't get upset at what I have said, becauswe God Knows I'm not the worlds greatest.

evil....you are doing really well..don;t beat yourself up about this......i don;t really know much about step family dynamics, so won;t comment....but you are an amazing mother, you know you are,..none of us can afford to 'sweat the small stuff', as other posters have said....pick your battles

praise the getting dressed etc.....who cares what she is wearing>? i'm sure all her clothes are lovely ! and more specific instructions & praise reinforced with stickers or rewards xx

Also IME (with DS) 4 is an age for pushing the boundaries. They are between being a delightful little pre-school creature and a school child.

I think you are now being too hard on yourself TBH. Please don't cry.

i try to say to my DS, who is 7, i am disappointed with your behaviour, rather than i am disappointed in you, separate the behaviour from the child, IYSWIM.....DD is 17 months, so not at the same point yet...but she does understand 'no' !

oh blimey, you've taken on alot there with 2 step kids as well as your own.

First, pat yourself on the back for being a kind and nurturing person, NOT a dictator! Not everybody would do what you are doing.

Main things you can do to change;

Treat the kids as equal human beings; not that you have to treat them as adults but you CAN treat them as equal; equal right to be spoken to, listened to, respected, and trusted. Do you know what I mean? Don't constantly think of yourself as 'up there' as the adult. You can achieve huge amounts of harmony and fun in a house if you treat the kids as equal partners and get them along with you on things rather than telling them stuff all the time.

Don't try and control everything like clothes, food; I've heard it termed 'benign neglect' on here, meaning let them make their own choices where possible, even if it means very questionable outfits!

Expect to do things as a team WITH them rather than expecting them to do things alone then thinking of them as 'naughty' if they don't do it. Never underestimate the amount of INPUT they need; though quite often you can set them off with things and they can carry on.

Basically they need you to

be absolutely specific in what you are asking them to do

Give them options and choices that play to their sense of dignity and control

but mainly RELAX, look at all your 'rules' and then HALVE them! Pick your battles, learn to take HUGE deep breaths, go away and decide if it really matters!

And get lots of back up and support from your DP!

Also although I am advocating, along with others, allowing her some choice in what she wears, I have to say that given a totally free rein by 5yo DS would wear a football strip every day right through winter and go out without his coat on to show it off. Now I allowed him to wear his new strip on Christmas Day and saved the nice new outfit I had bought him for Boxing Day - I had already figured this was inevitable. And I let him wear it again on the Thursday because we were only going to the ILs so he wouldn't be outside much. But I have not let him wear it other days.

ESM - I read this when you first posted, started to reply then got distracted by dcs (shock horror!!) Anyway my reply was going to be - I would do the same thing and I thought you were doing a fine job. Now reading all the feedback maybe I'm a 'nazi' mummy too. i choose dd's clothes (she is 3 1/2) but she doesn't show any interest in choosing them herself so I'm not enforcing it on her. I also find deliberate misbehavious infuriating and obviously it is sometimes done for a reaction which it is hard not to get sucked into. I do practice positive re-inforcement as it sounds like you do too but maybe we could both be doing more of that and less of the controlling. If only we were all perfect mothers...wouldn't life be so frickin dull

Hey, don't cry! It's lovely that you have taken a step back and been concerned that you don't want to get into the pattern you are describing. She is obviously happy and cheerful - her behaviour would be way off the rails if she was unhappy! You are obviously doing a good job! You sensed there was something gpoing on that you were not sure about, you sensed the source of the issue, asked us the question and found that your instincts agreed with other MN-ers. aka trust yourself!

I think Colditz has put her finger on it...

And there is SO much propoganda at the moment about all this discipline and supernanny type routines, but those families are out of control from top to toe, yours isn't!