Nearly 4 year old girl won't listen to/look at me

[Boomerwang]

It's driving me nuts. Making me lose my temper. We're going through potty training (two weeks, very slow going) so my nerves are already a bit jangled. My problem is that she won't listen to me or do anything I say without a fight about it. For instance after doing her wee on the potty and me being excited and happy about it for her sake, she tried to pick up the potty to empty it. Past experience has taught me she throws it all over the place in the bathroom so I asked her to leave it. She ignored me so I stopped her hands and asked her again to leave it. She went for it again so the third time I said 'LEAVE IT' and unbelievably she tried to pick it up AGAIN. This is just an example of many similar situations, but this is the latest one that actually made me completely lose it. I screamed 'JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!' and took her wrist and led her to the sofa out of the way (jerk, no, pull, yes) where she pulled that unhappy fish face and said sorry.

I used to think it was because of distractions like the TV being on so she wasn't paying attention, but this one was clearly not about that. It's as though she can't understand what I'm saying, or can't link what I'm saying to what she is doing.

She doesn't have any other obvious developmental problems (she's behind with everything by about 6 months, but the progress is at a seemingly normal rate)

Before I ask or tell her anything I ask her to look at me. That's another one I'm having problems with. I have to say it several times while she's playing with some toy or other. When I get her to look at me I say something then I ask her to repeat it back to me. She can't say a word of it. For instance, I say 'when you need a wee, tell mummy'. Then I say 'what do you do when you need a wee?' and she can't tell me...

How can I effectively get her attention, make her listen and understand what I want from her? I'm getting so frustrated that I don't want to even bother asking/telling her things any more, I just want to pick her up and plop her down somewhere because it's so much easier in the short term...

Yes I think hearing would be first thing tested anyway.

Ask for both hearing and ASD assessment at the same time though because where I am it takes a very long time to get the formal testing performed for ASD. We waited a year. I really wish I had just self referred ourselves to the specialist 18 months ago. We ended up not using our insurance too as the place we went to don't accept it. The places that accept insurance have wait lists of up to 2 years.

Please don't be put off by my response but I can guarantee she is not on the ASD. She has no problems with playing with other kids, she can do all the tasks set for her if it suits her (hearing test, clean up mess before ice cream, find the treasure under the 'X' made out of masking tape, run left, run right, catch the ball and pass it to x person etc) it's only when I'm asking her to do something when she's in the middle of staring at a tv or her tab or she's wandering towards a stick on the ground or something that she plays deaf. No amount of 'a car is coming!' or 'your ice cream is melting on the floor!' or 'look at me!' will work at those times. How do I deal with what seems to be obstinacy?

But a child with receptive language problems has to concentrate really hard to follow conversation. Its not that they have no language skills they have poor language skills. They can't cope when there are background noises or it's not on a one to one basis.

It's not necessarily ASD but I doubt its obstinence either.

She sounds just like my daughter, who is totally fine and not on any spectrum at all. She just has very selective hearing and is quite determined/stubborn. Drives me mad!

It got worse as Dd got older, but then settled down again. Toddlers are pretty compliant, but she's getting older now and choosing when to listen to you!

Have you tried 1,2,3? It seems to jolt them out of the daydream / action and bring them back in the room.

Also, the 'look at me' thing is too intense for them. Even if she is looking at you she'll be thinking about looking at you / feeling uncomfortable and not taking in what you are saying. Read that somewhere and does seem to be true.

It's impossible to diagnose anything or not on here.

She also sounds like my DD, who has autism.

We can't say she is or isn't fine.

ChalkHearts the eye contact thing is only when I'm trying to get her attention. At any other time she has no problem looking at me.

are you only doing this when you are annoyed? If she doesn't see your angry face then it's not "real" IYSWIM?

Agree you are over speaking - kids tune out of shouting and ranting and block it out -

I think you need to look at your action v her reaction and see if there's a link.

What is she like with her dad?

The op seems pretty certain it's nothing like that though, which is probably a fairly good indicator.

It sounds like fairly typical selective hearing. She's hitting milestones late but within an acceptable range. Seems sensible to try and iron out possible communication issues between the two of them before taking it to the next level.

My Dh is a chronic overexplainer. You can literally watch Dd switch off as he talks!

Your DD sounds like mine who has just been diagnosed with ASD aged 8. I would never have believed it but since she went on the waiting list for assessment (due to problems at school) I have been doing lots of reading about ASD in girls. My DD makes friends easily, makes eye contact and always has (unless you are giving instructions and then she appears to be in a world of her own), has great vocabulary, very imaginative, lovely manners, loving and affectionate, helpful etc. ASD isn't what i thought it was. Having a second DD has made me realise how hard communicating with DD1 can be!

Of course she may not have ASD at all but just wanted to mention that ASD in girls can be hard to identify.

A speech and language assessment would be useful to check her receptive language skills, but I feel it would be easy to be a bit quick to say "possible ASD" here. We've just got a snapshot, there are all sorts of reasons for these sorts of issues. I am a speech and language therapist.

Being a bit firmer would help. She's 4. She doesn't get to decide not to go in her car seat. The issue isn't how far you were going, it is about giving a consistent message so she understands she has to do what she is told to. You may have to manhandle her a little for the car seat (without hurting her) or give some consequences e.g. Sit where you are told or I'll have take your toy away.

She doesn't sound to have any autistic tendencies from what you say. Talking constantly to a child is completely the right thing to do. Only when making a request keep the sentences simple.

What I can see is that she is stubborn and you have got into the pattern of meeting her head on instead of approaching from a different angle. For instance in the car I would tell her one of her toys needed that seat, help her buckle it in and then ask her to tell it a story on the journey. Ok for a short rushed journey this may take time and imagination, but it avoids confrontation. I've found that if you instruct the opposite to what you really want (no, you can't have that yoghurt, it's for me) you get what you want and they feel in control! Bargaining is also a good tactic.

Remember it's easy enough to outwit a 4 year old. You just have to be a tactician.

That way you keep the 'do it because I say so' issues to a minimum and only for important things like hitting.

Agree with booming. I perhaps skipped ahead to what you might do when she won't comply, obviously you want to try to avoid confrontations in the first place

Hi guys. Sorry I've been so long in replying.

I'm putting these issues on the back burner for now, as I believe it's possible that she's being perfectly normal but I am the one having problems. It's hard to be sure, since it's not easy to identify when you're in the middle of it, but I think my depression - which has recently hit a recognizable point - is the problem. It means that all the possible ways to deal with a behaviour issue never entered my head, whereas they perhaps would have done if I'd not been so self absorbed.

Thank you all for the advice, and I'm not throwing any of it away, but I kind of wish I could change my OP thread title to 'Nearly 37 year old woman can't/won't understand me'