DS (7) being really difficult at school (more than usual). Been banned from Xmas play. What now?

[clumsymum]

I've posted before that ds is having some behavioural issues at school, and they are trying to deal with it using charts and some 1 to 1 time with a TA. for some background see this thread

This week he's been worse than usual. He has had very few stars on his chart (I think he's getting bored with it).

Yesterday he was a real nuisance in the rehearsal for the play. Read his part well, but during the times he was waiting for his part on stage he was poking the other kids, putting them off, and making silly noises instead of singing along properly. So the head has decided that he can't participate, and will spend his time in a year 4 class during rehersals and the performance.

I don't know why this week is so much worse (except the change in classroom routine, and less physical activity like PE going on).

Thing is, they don't seem to be administering proper 'punishment' at school, (not getting a star is no big deal in ds's book), and they don't have much toffer by way of rewards either when he is good.

Any ideas please?

sorry should be "don't have much to offer" as rewards.

bump, need someone to say "there there, don't worry"

it seems a bit harsh to exclude him from it altogether. Haven't read the background yet though.

my ds has been threatneend with this I think htere should have been a different punishment like losing break times or golden time if they do that, anything but that, as that is really excluding. my ds's play is on in the evening and if he gets banned from it I would just not take him I think. extra homework, or claering up crisp packets for one break, anything exept that exclusion as it means a lot to the kids to be in the school play

Clumsy it is obvious that this school is not set up or even prepared to take your information on board with regard to the childs behaviour. Why dont you call the local education authority and see if you cant get some advice from them.

By your previous thread ( I skimmed) it seems he has some foundation issues and it will take a lot of time and patience to get him on track if only to a barely acceptable stage. Keep pumping on and sod what others think, put your blinkers on and avoid such thoughts.

Hi, Just read the background.
the thread didn't say what had happend re a discussion wth the head - nor if you had agreed a way of dealing with the behaviour together.

I can't believe that they have banned him from the school play.
It seems completely extreme IMO.
I have a DS who is 6 and is on the gifted and talanted list. He also is prone to bad behaviour and I have posted on here before - particularly back when he was in the school nursery about it. We were called into a meeting about it and we had time to think it through first and the teachers were very positive about finding strategies to help him control his behaviour, much of which stemmed from frustration and/or boredem and could be seen building up.
They still have instances now where he is particualry bad - but on the whole he seems to have settled down, and it was finding the right thing to work with him. His current teacher is particularly lovely and is managing him beautifully.

I would be arranging a meeting with the school about this punishment - as I'm sure there must be other ways to crack your son's behaviour and such an extreme punishement seems really unfair to me.

Does your DS thrive on routine and behave worse when routine is suddenly changed - I know it can often be really unsettling for some children (DS can be like this) and he also NEEDS the pysical activity to keep his attention at other times. The weather has been not too good this week so playtimes have been a bit curtailed here and this won't help either

been there, was told ds almost certainly had aspergers, school refused to accept it, changed school, all now fantastic. your situation sounds very similar, he couldnt cope with the change in routine the school play caused and got banned. he actually didnt care at all. stars charts dont work unless you get him very excited about them and its hard to keep that going for long! current school does not focus so much on punishment/reward as stopping the problem behaviour before it starts. for this you need to know what you are dealing with and last school didnt know what aspergers was. dont remember reading any threads of yours before so sorry if thats all irrelevant but thought i would post.

am off to do school run now, am not ignoring you if you reply and i dont answer!

Thanks for your responses.
Apparently they will tell him about not being in the play just before home-time, so it doesn't make him disrupt the whole school day. So I'm going to have the tears and temper about it over teatime, thank you, head teacher.

I'm terribly disappointed for him (and a bit disappointed WITH him too). I thought he wasn't reading his part properly, and that's why they wanted him out. but it was behaviour off stage, which to my mind should have been dealt with AT THE TIME.

I don't know what to do. How do you change schools? How do you find one that is likely to do better?
There is a lovely, small church school near to us, which has a good reputation and small classes. Should I approach them?

i changed schools because i knew the problem was aspergers and school refused to accept it. so when i went to new school i took him and said what i thought the problem was and they agreed based on what they could see and what i had said, then they told me what they could do to help. coincidentally we have moved to a small church school which has a good reputation and small classes i could not have changed schools without being absolutely certain that the new one would be any better.

are things bad enough to need a statement? talking to the ed psych might get you further than the senco.

if you do change schools i would recommend talking to parents and teachers rather than going off ofsted reports, i have found word of mouth to be far more accurate (ofsted said our old school was good with special needs, i have yet to meet one of the parents who agree)

i hope he isnt too disappointed and you have a fairly peaceful evening

Thanks Gigglin

Ds was remarkably peaceful by the time I collected him. They had told him a little earlier in the day, and apparently the whole school heard him begging the head "Please let me, I promise I'll be good, I'll do ANYTHING", it's a script I have heard before, after he has been warned of consequences, carried on doing whatever it is, then the consequences have been actioned.

I agree that he needs punishment for messing about with the other kids. But I'm still a bit cross that they won't let him participate at all.
I still wish they had dealt with this differently

So today was the day of the performance. DS was supposed to spend this morning in class doing ordinary things, then this afternoon with the year 5 class.

I left him in the playground and he was fine, we had had a remarkably smooth morning.
I was rung at 11:30 because he had lost his temper, thrown a chair about, and lodged himself under a desk refusing to come out. Apparently he had been in a temper as he walked in at 9:00 o'clock

So I was asked to bring him home to calm down. Apparently I have to take him in for a talk with the head in the morning, with a view to him attending school as normal tomorrow (but there is another performance then)

He isn't anything like this bad at home. They don't seem to have any idea of how to handle him.

hi

I have read this and some of the other thread and have to say that I feel they are not treating your ds (or you) very fairly at all. did they say what caused him to loose his temper today? Has anyone looked at how bright he is, it sounds like he is incredibly bright and incredibly bored

I would possibly be contacting the education authority and asking for their support and advice, they may be able to make the some suggestions or give you other people you could contact.

I would go and see the head tomorrow but wouldnt take ds and would 'discuss' with the head how they are supporting your ds, (or not supporting him) what other things they have in mind as what they are doing is not working, they do have a responsibility to help him and you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do hope things work out ok

This sounds a lot like what happened to my ds when he first started school. I had to go and see the play anyway as dd was in it and would have been gutted if I didn't go and I spent the whole time blinking back tears because ds wasn't allowed to do it. He wasn't allowed to go to the Xmas party either.

We took him out of that school, got him statemented and now he has fulltime 1:1 support in a new school and is doing really well.

DS doesn't have a dx but he certainly has some ASD traits and so we use those types of strategies with him at home and at school and that seems to work well. We don't use stars at school now as he is doing so well but we used to have a system where he was awarded up to 8 stars over the day for good behaviour (3 for the morning, 2 at lunch and 3 for the afternoon) We also have a home/school book so that his TAs can let me know anything significant (good or bad). With his stars at school they did offer some rewards but mainly we dealt with the rewards at home. We were doing star charts at home so we added his school stars to his daily and weekly totals and he earned rewards that way.

From reading your other thread it sounds as though your ds may have different needs to mine but he may still benefit from similar strategies.

I would find a new school for him. This isn't working and they sound horrible and crap and don't understand him.

just read original post but wanted to say at this time of year behaviour takes a nose dive with my DS (also 7) I out it down to excitment of xmas and pure exhaustion (if only he would go to sleep!)

Don't worry, only a few more days and it's holidays!

I meant to mention that too DimpledThighs. DS is climbing the walls with excitment at the moment. He gets so excitable at this time of year that it is hard to keep him calm at all. Luckily his current school are fab and know exactly how to cope with him.

Thanx everyone for your support. Had a meeting with the head this a.m., first with ds, then 30 mins chat afterwards.

Said I was disappointed about what happened yesterday. Head said the problem was that she had threatened to ring me, thinking it would get him to come out and listen, but he didn't, so she had to follow thru. I have made it clear that I do not want it to happen again this term. One worry is that ds will work out if he wants to go home, he just has to kick off.

I have said that I am concerned that his school behaviour has got worse this term, while at home things are getting better. I have said that I wonder if his class teacher just isn't understanding him at all.

Head says that next term they will get him some 1:1 time for anger management, and get the 'behaviour team' in for him !!!???

I'm going to ring the ed psych, and see what she has to say.

How does one change schools? How does one find the right school? Please tell me.

Oh clumsymum, your DS sooo needs someone he trusts in school, someone who will "fight his corner", it sounds to me like his teacher is very quick to judge you DS. OK so he has a temper, that isnt good, they need to work out a way to channel is energy without disrupting everyone else. He needs a mate in school (dont mean a class mate) he needs someone who can chat to him and chill him out - maybe another bloke, could be the caretaker ffs, someone he trusts. I know that schools have to also look at the bigger picture but I dont think a bit of TLC on the schools side would go amiss.

I wouldnt rush into moving schools, you could be out of the frying pan so to speak. Se how the 1 to 1 goes after xmas, anger management is usually a good option.... good luck

I wouldn't rush into changing schools either but it can't hurt to have a look around. Just get a list of the local schools from the Childrens Information Service - their number should be in the phonebook or I expect you can contact them online through your local Borough's website. OFSTED reports can usually be found online too if they have been done in the last couple of years and if not you can ask the school concerned for a copy. Then make appointments to see the headteachers of the schools you like the sound of and have a look around the school. Always try and go while the children are there so that you get a real feel for how things are at the school. Ask around locally too as parents are usually the best ones to ask about local schools.

Hi
have just read this thread and the previous one and really understand your frustration. Speaking as the 'enemy' (i'm a teacher!) all I can say is that these Christmas concerts can be really problematic for a number of reasons. I think in your case you have a fantastic little boy whose needs are simply not being catered for. Concerts are often done in addition to everything else and the children and dare I say teachers are put under enormous pressure to put on a good show and I'm afraid it's one of those times that the needs of the majority are met and children who simply don't cope or don't fit in are dealt with like your little man has been. It's also a tough time of year to keep on top of rewards/sanctions systems because of all the extra activities going on. Think it would be wise to draw a line under this and try to put things in place for the new school year. Think home school books are great ideas as are regular meetings with your class teacher and SENCO, the school could also set up a 'safe' place for him to go before situations escalate. Have you told them how you deal with him at home? There may be strategies you use and activities you do that haven't occurred to the school (we're not experts and should admit so more often)Behaviour team coming in a good thing, in my experience they are great and it seems as if the school are accepting they need help. Keep the lines of communication open, the school will need your support as you are the expert on your son. If all fails and you feel a change is your only option talk to your local education authority, they will advise on the forms etc, but never go solely by OFSTED or even word of mouth - go and see the school yourself.

Ali5
Thank you for your message. It's nice to hear from a teacher. I don't regard the staffd at his school as the enemy at all, althought I am concerned that ds's class teacher doesn't seem to understand him, and at both IEP meetings I've attended she has been very negative, with no positive suggestions or comments to make at all. She also seems to have told ds that she doesn't think he can be good for a whole day, so when I ask what has happened, his stock response has become 'I can't help it Mummy'.
TBH the teaching assistant seems to have a better idea of how to deal with ds.

I have talked at length about what to do when ds begins on the path to 'melt-down'. At home he goes into his own room, and spends up to 1/2 an hour in there with no interaction with anyone (generally he lays on his bed reading). Unfortunately school have no way of giving him that totally isolated space, it doesn't work just to send him to a quiet corner of the classroom. They have once tried sending him out into the corridor, but he just stood with his back to the classroom (glass) door, waving his bum at the other children (makes me laugh to think of it, but not really the desired effect. At least he didn't drop his pants )

I am calmer now, a bit less upset (spent Wednesday evening crying to my mum down the phone). I don't want to move schools, but want to be prepared if things don't improve.

As I said to the head teacher, I take a happy contented boy to school in the morning, and collect a grumpy, frustrated one at the end of each day, which isn't fair on him or me.

He seemed to have a better day yesterday. Did the year 5's Xmas quiz with them while his class performed the play, which he really enjoyed, and actually acheived his target number of stars over the day (first time for 2 weeks).

Nearly hols, next tertm we'll start afresh.

Hello Clumsy Mum
Glad to hear you both had a good day. Perhaps you could ask his class teacher what she means by 'being good' it's a wooly term and she needs to be specific for you and for him, there's no point asking or expecting any child to be 'good' all day, they need clearer instructions than that! Just a thought - as he had a positive experience in the year 5 class, could that be his chill out point? He might enjoy spending time with children who are perhaps more his intellectual equal, even if he just takes a book and reads in the corner of the classroom.

Yes Ali, I'm sure things are better for him in the year 5 class. Whenever he gets sent there, he presents no problems at all.

However I have asked about him being moved up a year, maybe he just gets frustrated about the level of work. School says they can't even contemplate that until his behaviour improves, and that although they accept that his reading and maths abilities are high, he doesn't get how to apply his knowledge, i.e. he can solve a sum, but present him with a situational problem which means he has to work out that a sum will help, and he just gives up. So in their view he is too immature to move.

He had a dreadful day on Friday. Real Anger outbursts in his class twice, head had to carry him kicking and screaming down the corridor to her office. They didn't call me until home time, but they didn't send him to the year 5 class either.

To be honest I'm dreading this week , and terrified he'll get himself excluded from the class party on tuesday. Half of me wants to give him a warning about that, half of me says thats piling pressure onto him, that might make things worse.
Arghhhhh

sorry to read this clumsymum. I haven't really got any advice as ds1 had long sicne outgrown any major problems at school by this age.

But have you spoken to Wedgiesmum at all recently? She's had many similar experiences with her ds1, and may be able to offer some help/support/advice to you?

Oh dear.
Odd they didn't call until end of day? Does he recognise any signs himself that he's on the way to an outburst? Could he carry a card with him that has them written down and things to do to stop it turning into a full blown incident? Could the TA that seems to understand him be at the party with him? Sounds to me like his class teacher needs to recognise and diffuse the situation before it gets to the point of the head carrying him out, even if she simply sends him on an errand, or even to go and talk to the head about how he feels. Good luck. Only 3 days to go!