MMR - thoughts

[Idoitforthelove]

I have two friends (one a GP) who are convinced that this particular vaccine caused, or was a factor in causing, their children's (severe) autism. They believe that Andrew Wakefield's research was valid and that the drugs companies are simply holding the NHS to ransom.

Thoughts?

My one year old is due to have the MMR next week and I don't think I'm going to be able to take her. It feels utterly unnatural to fill her tiny body with three vaccines at the same time, even if I hadn't spoken to my friends about it.

Anti-vaxxers pay for a study to find a link between vaccines and autism.
Study doesn't find a link. Anti-vaxxers accuse researchers of changing methodology.

www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/anti-vaxxers-fund-study-finds-zero-link-between-vaccinations-and-autism

I'm starting to see a pattern here

Unless there is an outbreak, obviously. If exposure to the measles virus in a vaccine can cause autism in certain susceptible children, I fear for what exposure to the real thing would do to them. Perhaps these are the children who'd be most damaged or die.

FFS are we here AGAIN?????

I am the mum of a severely autistic child!! He was autistic before his MMR. Most kids are diagnosed at the same time as MMR... It's picked up at that age ..... You start to notice the differences!

Seriously get your child immunised .... Absolute idiots who don't put everyone at risk .... More importantly YOUR kid who has not been vaxxed either!

Also .... At the end of the day ... When the sun goes down .... It's really not all that bad having a child with autism ..... Mine is a ray of light.... An insight into another life.... Sorry .... He's fucking amazing, handsome and all mine!!!!

Ps I've had all 3 have MMR and its only him with autism .....

Ok, let's take away Wakefield and his fraudulent research.
Imagine none of that ever happened.

The MMR is under 30 years old. That's quite a small period of time for people to be noticing problems. How long did it take us to stop promoting smoking as a way of keeping your lungs healthy?
Two people who are close to me would swear on their children's lives that this injection damaged their children in some way. Wakefield or no Wakefield, that is hard to ignore.

There is no greater incidence of autism in children that have had the MMR, than those that haven't. As a practice nurse I remember reading that somewhere, it has always stuck with me.
And the efficacy of the single vaccines is questionable. They are not subject to the same rigid monitoring procedures as the MMR, cold chain storage for example.

..and 8 weekers now get 8 vaccines in one go. Young children are exposed to far more than the 3 in 1 when touching the world about them and shoving their hands in their mouth.

Your point about the MMR only being 30 years old is daft unless you're planning on not vaccinating at all-there are lots of other vaccines that are newer.

Unfortunately I think you have fallen into the same trap that a lot of non-scientifically literate people do. You are putting too much weight on your personal experience and not looking at what the hard facts tell you (I've done masters level work in the public understanding of science).

You can't take away Wakefield because he is the sole reason for the controversy over the MMR. What do you think of the evidence showing Andrew Wakefield was a liar and there is no link between Autism and the MMR? Just because people you know think it is bad, that doesn't mean you shouldn't look at the evidence yourself. My mother swears blind that if you go out with wet hair you'll catch a cold but my medical degree tells me that's bollocks.

No one is forcing you to choose the MMR for your child. It does sound like you'd already made up your mind before you started the thread.

I do understand that personal experience is hard to ignore. We all make a risk/benefit analysis based on our own experiences of risk and relevant benefits.

For me, as a student nurse aged 22, I cared for a 15 year old girl. She had caught measles then developed encephalitis and epiglottitis. Her brain swelled and her throat swelled and she stopped breathing. She was resuscitated and left with a tracheostomy, a massive brain insult and unable to move, speak, smile, swallow.

I had my first child in 1998 so she was due her MMR just as the fear had reached its peak. But for me, I remembered that girl and decided to take my chances with the vaccine. For me, the risks of the vaccine were negligible but the risks of measles were far higher.

Babbafish I applaud you and agree with everything you say. I am fortunate that my son is high-functioning and I wouldn't change him and his funny ways. As I said earlier in this thread, I knew way before he had the MMR jab that there was something amiss. MMR was a no brainer for me. My other child is not autistic.

Those that don't take medical advice from the (peer-reviewed) scientific community and have their kids vaccinated appropriately are morons. You're not only endangering your own kids but you're endangering people in our society who are immuno-compromised, who are safer because of the rest of us all having herd immunity and are therefore protecting them.

My DD2 had what I can only describe as full blown measles following the vaccine. She didn't have the booster as I assume she is now well and truly reactive. With her I decided not to question the nhs advice and took her along to her first appointment when she had the cold. Did not help that her reaction was over the Christmas holidays when the doctors was closed.

With DD3 I waited 6 months and kept her away from toddler groups so she was for once other bug free before having her vaccinated. She had no ill effects from the vaccine and so I would recommend this approach.

I am also a fair bit less trusting of blanket NHS vaccine advice now. I have just received what I can only describe as a propaganda leaflet re flu vaccine for pre schoolers and I also feel the HPV vaccine literature is very unbalanced. As long as the NHS treats me like an idiot where my family's individual interests are secondary to their overall stats I will become ever more sceptical.

Treesparrow, at least read the thread if you're going to be so abrupt. At no point have I said that I'm even considering not vaccinating. I'm just looking for some support/advice following several worrying conversations regarding this vaccination.

I said "vaccinated appropriately". The single vaccine is not appropriate. I have read the thread, I just don't agree with taking snippets of anecdotal evidence and allowing it to influence a decision such as this.

You do need to make your own mind up..... I would take an autistic child .... Anyday over a dead child !!!!
Single vax.... Your money .... Your choice. If your child has autism you won't be able to blame the vax like so many others have!
I have a friend who swears her son has autism from the MMR.... She will tell you he was normal before. .... Despite him walking incredibly late.... Talking late and missing all his early milestones !!!! If that's what helps her sleep at night .... So be it!
Autism is genetic .... It's a fault..... There is no one to blame for it.... Just they way life is.... Ours is a bit strange and we don't follow the usual path ! My son is amazing .... My other kids have a greater understanding and acceptance of people and the world around them.

Good luck with your decision ... I can guarantee you ... It's not the biggest one you'll make !

Just remember the only people that recommend single vaccines are out to make money out of single jabs ie

Wakefield had a patent for a single measles vaccine which was also some magic cure for vaccine damage as well

like this single vaccine pusher

and the same company ruled against again

DIY

She spent a good 6 weeks either just completely withdrawn (no smiling or communication, no playing, just sitting staring into space) or screaming for hours at a time thrashing about like she was in pain, had a temperature up and down most of that time, and was just completely not herself. I haven't given her the booster yet (it was due last year) as I'm still dithering about it.

You're dithering? Dear God. I wouldn't be going anywhere near it. Surely this was enough warning the first time?

I think the majority of posters are on here who are saying you must vaccinate etc etc, should do some research of their own. Instead of being sheep and just doing what the govt tells you to do.

Finally, how is an unvaccinated child a threat to your vaccinated child? Oh yeah. That's right. The vaccines don't even work. You do realise that the majority of children who catch these diseases are actually vaccinated?

My son got whooping cough. Very nasty. He was well and truly vaccinated. Didn't stop him getting it and didn't stop how nasty it was.

But go ahead and keep putting mercury and other nasties right into your body. Have none of you given any thought to the fact that the reason diseases have diminished worldwide is mainly due to better hygiene, sanitation and health in general? Not because of vaccinations. Most children who die of measles for e.g are poorly to begin with (or have other health complications) I personally find it appalling that it's not being investigated, the dangers that vaccines themselves pose.

Babbafish

I have a friend who swears her son has autism from the MMR.... She will tell you he was normal before. .... Despite him walking incredibly late.... Talking late and missing all his early milestones !!!!

This doesn't even make sense. MMR is given at 12 months. So if he walked 'incredibly late' (18months+), then yes, this was after the MMR. Ditto for talking late etc. So I can see why she might think it was the MMR.

I personally find it appalling that it's not being investigated, the dangers that vaccines themselves pose

Nonsense, if you had done your research you would know that they are properly investigated but most people who claim to do their research just read the antivax sites and don't bother to question what they read

800 pages here on adverse events and causality in vaccines. Easy to dip into as a chapter on each disease etc

There is a direct correlation between the reduction of measles and vaccine rates. The biggest epidemic of measles in the UK was in the 60s just before the vaccine was introduced.
FWIW MMR never had mercury in it. But here is a good resource for vaccine information
oxford vaccine group with info on ingredients and latest research

needaninsight (it's been a while since I've seen such an appropriate user name) I take issue with you "thinking the majority of posters are on here who are saying you must vaccinate etc etc, should do some research of their own instead of being sheep and just doing what the government wants them to do".

First of all I explicitly encouraged the op to do some research of her own to help her make her mind up.

Secondly the research out there shows that for the vast vast vast majority of people vaccinations are safe. There is always a small risk, and it is tragic when something bad happens but the risk of catching the disease is far far worse than the risk of vaccination complications.

Thirdly, people are only safe to choose not to vaccinate their children because so many of us choose to do the right thing. Your point about better hygiene, health and sanitation is partly right but how do you explain the massive decrease in morbidity and mortality in those specific diseases that we vaccinate against shortly after the vaccination programmed were rolled out?

Apologies bruffin I'm a v slow typer and I've repeated any of your points. Sorry!

Have none of you given any thought to the fact that the reason diseases have diminished worldwide is mainly due to better hygiene, sanitation and health in general? Not because of vaccinations.

Like polio?? Do you think the almost eradication of polio is due to handwashing and not immunisation.