DS (4) so angry and defiant, how to deal with it? Parenting coach?

[fromheretomaternity]

DS2 (4) has always been stubborn / argumentative in nature. When he was 2/3 years old we assumed he'd grow out of it. But over the past year or so he has actually become worse. He is now nearly 5 and constantly pushes back on even very simple and politely-put requests - to brush his teeth, put his shoes on, turn off the TV etc etc. He is a terrible loser and can't bear being told 'no' to anything and can't listen to reason or compromise. These situations quickly escalate into bad tantrums - kicking, screaming, growling, calling us names. We try to put him in his room; he screams and bangs the door with whatever hard objects he can find. Eventually he will calm down - but then the whole cycle just starts again the next time something goes wrong.

I am honestly at a loss as to what to do. This is affecting our marriage, home life, his brother's life and our work. I am exhausted from the constant battling. DH's view is that he needs firmer boundaries and more consistent enforcement i.e. putting him in his room if he crosses certain lines, making him apologise etc but I am not convinced, it just makes each situation escalate hugely and I don't think it prevents it next time.

I've read the Explosive Child book but DS2 doesn't really engage in the kind of problem solving he suggests - too young maybe. He is very intelligent (early reader) and can be absolutely loving and charming; he behaves pretty much perfectly at school. He appears to make friends and communicate fairly easily and has no obvious autistic type traits.

I'm getting desperate. I would love any advice anyone could give. I've also been wondering if we need a parenting coach, especially as DH and I disagree on how to deal with is, any recommendations would be great (we are London based).

I have been tearing my hair out for weeks with my 3 boys squabbling and tantrums and tried lots of rewards and punishment and nothing worked. Have just picked up a brilliant book called Reflective Parenting by Cooper and Redfern. It's saved my life and now putting these suggestions into practice. Best chapter that helped me was chapter 6 discipline.

Op ds is the same age and sounds like a similar character. I have always found the right solutions for him in the past but I feel like I'm gradually losing control the more independent he gets. It's been worse since he started school and there are days when I feel very sad and unloved. We've gone from enjoying a close and happy relationship to immense frustration with other and I feel like I'll never get that closeness back

Sorry to hijack the thread. I am hoping it's a phase that will pass with time and understanding. I don't feel like a very good mum at the moment.

I'm just popping in to say "thanks" to all for this thread. I have a very defiant 5 yo DS and the pointers to PDA have been helpful. Things got worse over the school holidays and we have employed a local "behaviour specialist" to help with strategies, mainly because I wanted something that was specific to DS, rather than reading a book. She was advertising locally (an ex-teacher specialising in SN and difficult behaviours). We have only had our first session with her (of a planned 4) and she has suggested very short time-outs (20 seconds at a time - if not calm after 20 seconds, then another and so on, whilst paying him no attention).

To be honest, this seemed to be working a bit at home this week until he has had the worst week at school (just gone into Year 1 - he had trouble with defiance in nursery, but had a good reception year (except at the beginning and end - teachers thought it was the change which caused anxiety). Anyway yesterday I got "the call" from school and was told that DS had been rude to adults at lunchtime play, including the headmistress and with a few other incidents that week his teacher "had never seen a 5 year old boy act that way". Oh deary dear...I spent a bit of time looking at PDA and mentioned it to school - the SENCO may have a look at it.

I suppose if you need help, having your DS be rude to the head, LSAs, dinner ladies is the way to get noticed. Dreading the phone ringing today though...

Thanks again for all the insights on this thread, and the knowledge that I may not be alone.

Hello OP here again. We have seen some tiny glimmers of hope the past few days (after a truly awful week last week). I've noticed some of the worst meltdowns are where we are trying to gets DS to stop doing whatever he is doing, and do what we want him to do - put on shoes, brush teeth, go to bed, get out of the bath etc etc. He hates being interrupted or doing things before HE feels ready. We've started allowing MUCH more time for things so that we don't have to rush him, and we can give him a bit more flexibility as to when he does things. Eg brush teeth before or after bedtime story. Flexibility on WHERE also helps - do you want to brush your teeth downstairs or upstairs? It's a bit hard work and means being more organised, and I wonder if we are pandering to him too much, but it's much less work than dealing with tantrums.

We've also got a toy clock and set the hands for whatever time we need to get out of the house (making sure this is a few minutes before the actual time we really need to go) so he can see for himself what's coming.

When he does have a meltdown, rather than punitive time outs we are taking him to a separate room and sitting with him / soothing him till he calms down. After he's properly calm - which takes a bit of time - THEN we talk about what he did and ask for an apology.

Not sure we've entirely cracked it but these things seem to help a little.

sounds good op! what you do not want is oppositional defiance to develop. So putting in the work now to give choices, warn him before hand, sooth etc will be far less work than a child who gets into a pattern of always opposing what ever you say.Getting him to work with you is the end goal. He'll be happier and so will you ! Fat Momma says -Invent rewards not punishments!

With my DD when she climbs to far up her temper to get back down, singing helps.

I am sure the othet strategies on this thread wirk too bit it would take a better person than me. I just don't have that patience. I do try to stick to logical consequences. But confrontations in this house are rarely calm. And I am pretty sure I do a lot of what a PP described as backhanding, out of sheer frustration.

On the subject of toothbrushing though OP, I take it he is absolutely clear about why he has to brush his teeth. I.e. it is not for your benefit.

I my gosh! I've just writtent that EXACT post! I think PDA and ODD are very similar in symptoms. Did you decide to seek outside help?

I'm sorry to sound old fashioned but my eldest was like this to a lesser degree. He was a humourous, happy, jolly little boy but definitely displayed similar behaviour to your son. Resistant from birth, everything from sleeping to toilet training to brushing teeth to learning to read and write properly was an absolute battle. I was exhausted... that exhaustion you suffer from with a newborn? Well by the time he was 5, I looked 10 years older than my 34 years. I loved him to bits but was equally broken by his stubbornness. I envied my friends whose kids just put on their shoes without question.

I knew I had my work cut out for me. I was a single mum and it was on me to make sure my stubborn, resistant but lovable child a grounded person who would function happily in the world.

At 5, he had the mother of all meltdowns outside Sainsbury's. I won't describe it...it was awful. I nearly lost my mind and could have slammed him through the brick wall. I was angry, resentful, tired, tired, tired, bone tired. It was that moment when I just felt sad for him, for me. I became totally strict, totally tactile and loving as always, but I drew major lines in the sand.
OP your DH is not completely off the mark.

1. I stopped shouting and showing my stress.
2. I became colder, more matter of fact. I no.longer argued I dictated. I would tell him very matter of factly to brush his teeth and walk away. If he didn't, I would hold his favourite toy and say "None of this until you do that. This goes and you won't get it back until youn learn to look after your teeth."
3. I followed through. I would remove a toy for a week and not give it back until he showed long term good behaviour, etc.
4. Yes. I was Pavlovian. No this did no harm.
5. I hugged hin. A lot.
6. I sent him to his room to think about his behaviour. A lot!!!
7. "I am disappointed. You are better than this. Think about your actions and behaviour" was my battle hymn.
8. Less shouting more action. I had to 'take away' toys, cancel birthday parties, playdates. Many would disagree with me but the child I have now was worth it all.
9. As he gets older, talk. After the anger subsides and he simmers in his room, talk to him. Acknowledge his anger. Honour his feelings. But don't let him use this as a means to manipulate you. But talk.

My son is pushing 14. He has his moments. Not many. But he has them because this is who he is. My lesson in all of this was to honour that. He is who he is. But nurture over nature worked. It's been hard. I don't have to sit on my other kids at all. The boundaries I drew up for DC1 are just non existent with my younger two.

I have a boy who apologises easily, gets over his Huff's very quickly, holds no grudges, and is just a super great kid. I love him to death of course, but his early years were tough.
You have to set boundaries. You have to be firm and a bit matter of fact. No arguing. Your word is law.

Sorry about my typos and predicted text muck ups!
I can't reiterate enough, do hug and hold...when you guys are in the happy place, show love. Be his rock. But your word is law, don't forget. Always keep in mind how much you want him to be happy in his own skin at all ages and in all environments.