Talk to me about, 'No pudding until you've eaten your mains.'

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I've been trying to avoid this, as current advice seems to suggest that it turns the main course into an ordeal to be got through and doesn't promote good eating habits or a healthy attitude towards food.

However, 3yo DS1's diet is shit. He eats minute portions of beige food, no matter how much choice I give him and bend over backwards to be totally relaxed about the whole thing. Everything I present, is met with, 'That's dis-CUS-tin!' to which I breezily reply, 'That's OK, you don't have to eat it, but I'm not making anything else.' I've never bargained with him about food, never force him to sit at the table, never lose my temper at his repeated food-refusal, give him a choice wherever I can, although this is not always possible. I involve him in food preparation wherever safe, get him to pick out fruit and veg at the supermarket which he loves doing, and let him cut and smell herbs in the garden. However, the only way he'll eat veg is on pizza (on the rare occasion he doesn't pick it off) or sometimes in pesto, so I blitz in anything I can get in there. I have slightly more luck with fruit, but pretty much only bananas, grapes and strawberries.

Tonight, after a day of watching him pick at crap (one spoon of porridge, half a slice of ham, a quarter of a bread roll, accompanying fruit and tomatoes thrown in the floor, pack of Pombears and a cookie devoured entirely), I broke my own rule at dinner when he stropped off to the couch, proclaiming my cheese and green veg pie to be 'howibble' (without tasting it). I said he wouldn't get any ice-cream unless he ate three bites of the pie. After half an hour of fury, he finally gagged down the required amount of pie in a rage and we had our once a week ice cream treat.

This is probably the most veg I have got into him in about forever. If I had no ice-cream to dangle, he just wouldn't have eaten it at all and not been any the worse for it.

Which is the lesser of two evils? Using a desirable food to encourage consumption of the undesirable food in the hope that he'll develop a taste for the undesirable? Or him leading a life nutrient-free until my carefree and relaxed facade crumbles into a heap convinces him that vegetables are actually quite pleasant?

Sorry I wasn't being critical but it does seem a bit complicated and you don't ever sit down in the evenings bugger that ! you must be exhausted!
Does your DH do any chores ?
I would keep the Sat treat in that case and cut out all other sugary stuff during the week . Give him his meals and offer something else only if he eats well. So don't threaten with taking it away but only offer if he has eaten ifyswim
Could you sneakily observe DS eating at nursery and see if something is making the difference there ?

I am absolutely shattered all the bloody time. There is no let up! A sit down in the evening just cuts into my very limited sleep time, so it doesn't happen. DH does dishes, helps with the tidy up, puts DS1 to bed which sometimes takes a bit longer than DS2 then often carries on with work on his own business, which is also full time during the day. We're both worn absolutely thin so a less highly-strung three year old would be lovely.

I'm at work when he's eating at nursery so, no, there is no way to sneak a look at him. I'm guessing it's the social aspect of seeing the other children eat that is a motivator. DS2 eats everything in sight (so far...I'm not holding my breath that this will last...) so I had hoped that this would motivate DS1 to eat better at home, but alas no.

I need the pie recipe!

Umm it all seems to be "mixed together stuff" and may even be a bit "mushy". Have you ever tried him with non mixed together food?

And if you have puddings why not have them as nutritious as possible? Yoghurt, Fruit, Fruit Salad, even crumbles with extra nutrients in the crumble.

Some children are fussy. One of mine can't stand "mash", and that is the easy eater, will eat anything but mash makes him gag.
One is very very fussy - it really gets to the point of me being so stressed that its best if I give her something she will eat.

You sound over worked. Can you buy in any help?
Do you have to turn this into a battle? Can you let him not eat? How much is it an emotional issue for you - him rejecting your food is rejecting you (or a sign that your parenting isn't as perfect as you thought)?

They don't have to eat anything but if they don't make a good stab at it then they weren't hungry in the first place and so no pudding.

yes that is exactly the response we give, if you don't have room for mains how can you have room for pudding?

The rule in our house is that if you want pudding you have to eat everything green on your plate (ie the vegetables) - we do pudding after each evening meal.

we also have a more flexible "3 more mouthfuls because you're 3" (or whatever age) applied if I really don't feel they've even tried to eat the main.

However if it is a new thing or they are very unsure of a food, I'd just insist on one small taste then leave it - with lots of praise for trying as well.

It seems to work for us, we don't have fussy eaters at the moment. not sure how it fits with the current guidelines on encouraging children to eat though?

mummytime As I said above, he's actually much better with mixed up food than individual items. Will sometimes eat peppers and mushrooms on a pizza, for example. Wouldn't touch them if presented by themselves (e.g. peppers sliced into strips or plain grilled mushroom).

I've also made sure it's never a battle - never ever. Hence, I'm wondering if I do need to introduce a little bit of a battle to get him eating more widely.

I do have a bit of an emotional thing about it in that I hate fussy eaters. DH was a terribly fussy eater when I met him (which drove me fucking bonkers), but after a lot of gentle pursuasion and careful cooking on my part, he has improved a lot. It irks me no end that I've now got another one to deal with!

We have a cleaner once a week. If we had enough money to buy in any more help I probably wouldn't have to work full time. Sigh.

ElphababTheGreen - I know a lot of people on Mumsnet say things like: "They don't have to eat anything but if they don't make a good stab at it then they weren't hungry in the first place and so no pudding."

But I bet those parents don't have a child who will happily barely eat for days.

I think buying a copy of Toddler Taming and reading the Paediatrician Christopher Greene say "No child starved to death when there was bread and jam in the house" is the only thing that kept me sane sometimes.

Yes we want our children to eat a varied and nutritious diet. But sometimes getting them to eat just enough calories is all we can do. Some children are far more sensitive to tastes and smells. You DH for example may have been highly sensitive as a child, and so developed a dislike for foods, which as his senses declined as an adult he can now tolerate.

If you look at the SN board or talk to parents of children with SN, you will discover some children can grow up pretty well on a diet that would make most of us despair.

But I would love it if I could cook a shepherd's pie sometime, but only DH and I would eat it.

They don't have to eat anything but if they don't make a good stab at it then they weren't hungry in the first place and so no pudding."
I think it was me who said that.
I stand by it.
It won't work for some kids as you say, but it will work very well for others. The OP knows her child and can work out which approach will suit better. It might be better to ease off and let him eat whatever, it might be better to set down some simple rules/consequences/whatever you want to call them. I think the most important thing by far is to work out how to not make it any kind of battle EVER and the rest will slowly slowly sort itself out. Eating and diet are very emotionally laden for most parents and it's hard to know what to do.