Keep losing my temper with 4 year old

[Rasell]

My eldest boy is 4.5. He's a lovely boy, caring, affectionate, funny... I love him to bits. But he keeps being naughty & it's getting worse. Ever day he blows spitty raspberries right at you, he refuses to do lots of the things we request. He argues & tells me off, basically repeating what I say to him. He won't take no for an answer and goes on and on demanding things. He screams and shouts all of the time. In any given hour of the day we'll go from playing, laughing & singing together to screaming blue murder. I can't help but be outraged that he won't listen to us. I'm horrified by the way I speak to him & shout at him. I've said some horrible things and am terrified I'll make him have low self-esteem or hate me. I love him with all my heart but just have no patience left to calmy ask him to stop doing the same things on a daily basis. How do you manage your kid's bad behaviour without losing it? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you x

Gosh I am so glad that things are going to change in your house. I just didn't want you to be hated like my Father.

Don't worry about being the cause of arguments on this thread as you weren't the cause.
An exchange of views is healthy in my book. I know what I know because I have experienced it. I only reply to threads where I have had personal experience such as being a MIL, or a Grannie, or bringing children up.

I am just so happy that you will no longer regard your four year old as being an adult with an adult's complete understanding of consequences.
X and take care.

Well, throwing water out of the bath 3 times is an easy one to fix (if that's a battle that's worth fighting for you). Put him in bath, tell him that if water comes out, so does he. Follow through, every time. Kids do like boundaries, I think.

But instead, how about getting him to help clean up the water he throws, once he is out of the bath? The more the water there is to clean up, the less time there is to read stories. Oh no, lots of cleaning up, too bad. Hopefully we can have a nice long story tomorrow.

A lot of the behaviour you describe sounds like over tiredness though. Can you bring bedtime forward a bit? Hard in the summer I know.

And I really would see if you can prioritise time to let him put his pyjamas on himself, for example. It's quite a mixed message - you're big enough to know not to do X, Y, Z - but I have to help you get dressed. Maybe he needs a bit more control over the very few areas where a 4 year old can have control?

Lots of people will have other techniques, and I know I am a bit lentil weavery in some of my parenting, but these things do help my child, and me whilst I count down the minutes until I can open the wine

Great ideas. I'm not always good at being consistent and following through and although I have gradually been giving him more responsibility, especially as he starts school in September, sometimes I do just do things and baby him for speed or whatever.
Thanks again to all xxx

My daughter once pulled me up for telling her off for shouting by shouting at her. And she was right - I was shouting.

I think the worse they get you have to try to lower your voice and be as calm as you can. And it is OK to walk away and go and have a silent scream on your own.

I agree for throwing water I would end the bath.

With the refusal to do things do you have some kind of reward system in place? It would be a good idea to try one if you don't. And make it positive behaviour rather than finishing negative behaviour. So you could collect stickers or stars in the jars - get so many and then there is a bigger prize at the end. This could some kind of treat - for example, getting to choose what to have for dinner one night of the week.

I think with small children you need to tell them what you expect of them. So you say 'I want to you to go and put your pyjamas on as quickly as you can and if do that then I'll give you a sticker' or whatever the reward is.

For getting them to do things within a certain time frame, I use a timer to race against. This works well.

Oh yeah, races are marvellous. I bet I can beat you clearing up your room. Who's going to be ready to leave the fastest. It won't last forever but I am milking it whilst it does

Basically trying to pretend make anything that needs to be done fun to do. There are some non-negotiables, like not undoing the car seat harness, not hitting, that sort of thing, but most things for my 4.5 year old can be got through with a bit of jollying and laughing. Praise for the things he does well works better than criticism for what he doesn't - same as for most of us

Blimey, I didn't read all the posts in reply to this but I did read the first one saying that you are abusive to your son- I have to say I don't think you are atall and us mum's should be supportive to each other, not making someone feel a hundred times worse than they do already.

No one is the perfect parent, but you are trying your damnedest, and it is bloody hard!! I can totally sympathise with you. Deep breaths, count to 10. I remember reading somewhere imagine you are being filmed! I don't know what the answer is but you are not alone in losing it sometimes and you are not an abusive parent! Xxx

You are not being abusive OP. Your son sounds very similar to my 4 year old DS.

Hole, you obviously had a very sad experience in your childhood but I don't think the OP warranted being called abusive, not enough information was given for you to compare that to your childhood and the comparison is therefore unfair. Also, if you raised 5 children without shouting, not even once, then you are truly a saint. Or a liar. The whole debate about whether a 4 year old knows what they are doing is silly, of course they know what they are doing in terms of basic behaviour. Clearly it's not a good idea to ask them to drive or change a fuse.

OP, great suggestions above already. I find telling him I'm not going to listen to him/stay with him when he's behaving like X. If he carries on, I walk away and ignore. The bath, one warning and then end it. Don't engage, just say "I told you not to do that, and I told you I would stop bath time." End of.

Have you ever looked into love bombing? It's effectively praise but works really well for my DS. I'm also really guilty of "babying" him to speed things up, to my shame he's 4 and can't dress himself and goes to school in September... have you tried reward charts?

Parenting is such hard work, you are a good Mum, you've recognised you want to change your parenting - that's a great start. I went through a real screechy stage with DS after having my second baby, I really don't like those memories but - hey, parenting is hard and we all get it wrong.

PM me if you like, loads of your OP reminded me of myself.

Good Luck.

Wow, hole. I don't know if you think it's your duty to rescue other children from the same childhood as you, but you are way out of line suggesting that the OP's son will grow up to hate her. That's an absolutely dreadful thing to say to a struggling mum. She quite clearly isn't an abusive parent.

Agree with the suggestion about love bombing. A lot of bad behaviour is either attention seeking or because the child is tired and expressing it poorly.

Whatever you do, do not beat yourself up about becoming impatient sometimes. It happens to all of us.

I do think hole has fallen into the trap of seeing something that isn't there based solely on past experience. A person who was abused in the past will sometimes erroneously see traits in others sparked by memory.

OP you're not abusive. An abuser denies their actions and doesn't seek to change.

I found 3 particularly hard but 4 relatively easy. That said, ds has phases of doing exactly as yours does, pushing all my buttons. Occasionally I have shouted, we're all human. I have always said sorry and explained that even adults make mistakes - shouting is not ok. Now I find that the 'menacing quiet tone, accompanied by Paddington hard stare' is the most effective. He knows he's really overstepped the mark when that happens. It's a 4 year old's job to push boundaries, almost like they're testing whether your love really is unconditional. I have also left the room for 5 minutes, had a good cry and returned in a better frame of mind. Ds responds very well to a more 'positive' telling off! He's also highly attuned to the moods of those around him and often reflects them.

this could have been written by me, and trust me, my blood ran cold when I read the first reply!! REALLY HELPFUL! NOT. I think you have amnesia holeintheheart. :)
My son has just gone to bed crying because after he kicked and punched me for not allowing him maltesers at bedtime (after I asked him half an hour before bed if he wanted any more food and said "No, I don't want anything else, I have had enough") and then laughed at me when I said he had not been well behaved, I left him to go to sleep instead of singing and saying prayers like I normally would. I explained why I was not going to do it.
So I'm abusive too, no doubt!!
Apparently, boys of this age have a testosterone surge around 4 years of age. article here
We are currently on holiday, and do not have all the books etc that he would normally read - it's also incredibly hot (like 40c) so we're not able to be outside as much as we could be if we were at home, although we did swim for 1 hour this afternoon.
He's also incredibly bright (not a stealth boast, just a fact!!) and missing 2.5 days at academic based nursery for the holiday probably isn't helping his mood either.
Good luck! Look up 4 year old behaving on google - may help you feel less alone!! :)

oP I haven't read all the thread but things sound tough for you.
I am challenged too, every day by my high maintenance highly string dd. Sometimes when it gets too much, and she's having a tantrum I leave the room and let her get on with it. Usually try and go somewhere where I can't hear her. By the time I've come back she has usually calmed down and Its all forgotten about. Managing these sensitive and defiant souls is tough. Some people are lucky and never have to go through managing such challenging behaviour, repeatedly on a daily basis.
Positive discipline also helps my dd. Which she does something nice, I give her lots of praise and she loves it and starts smiling!
Hang on in there and good luck.

I can see that he might be fighting your control over him, rather than fighting you, ifswim?
Four year olds LOVE being responsible and "grown up". So find ways you can give him responsibility (control ). And then praise the heck out of him when he does it. You'll see changes in him and you won't have to nag so much.
Sticker charts also work wonders for some kids.

Mine's like this, he's 3.11. I read about the 4yo testosterone surge years ago and believe that's what's happened. It is wearing when you're just about to leave for school and he decides to throw his hat on the floor and have a tantrum though. I now allow 50 minutes for the 20 minute walk.

Op you sound like me and that first posters reply was so awful I didn't want to read the rest of the thread but I am glad I did as people have offered helpful advice
Just wanted to say your not alone. I don't have a magic wand and am working on being calmer with my 5yr old and not shouting as he shouts then I do then he does and it spirals out of control with no one listening or feeling happy (in that moment not for the rest of their lives!)
I try to praise really well and make sure we have all been outside for a bit at least once a day as being cooped up in the house makes it worse. We try to cuddle and read a book which calms everyone down and reminds me he is still little
The hardest times for me are when we have to be out somewhere on time and he won't listen or get dressed. I sometimes set a timer to see if he can be done before it goes off which seems better than a race as he gets grumpy of he looses
Working on how I deal with them in big public places as I know that is when I get stressed and then more likely to be cross/ pick up on things
Dh helps me gives me time to myself or a cuddle
No one is perfect parent we all have moments we regret but we try to learn from them
These are for you (take your pick!)

Give him a choice, without giving him a choice: do you want to put your shoes on, on the step, or on the chair?
Either way he puts his shoes on = clever parenting.

The testosterone surge makes a lot of sense. My son only started having tantrums at four. He used to be so cuddly and easygoing (and still is most of the time), but he is much more aggressive about getting his own way now.

He had a great tantrum today. He got so mad with me not letting him play more than one game on the computer that he ran into my bedroom, pulled all the covers off my bed and replaced them with a big piece of cardboard. Pretty inventive payback, I thought!

holeinmyheart I'm sure you mean well, but you really need to rethink the way you word things. The tone of your first reply was so sanctimonious and dramatic that I'm surprised you didn't scare the OP off completely.

Based on my experience of my own 4 year old, I'd say that he know what he's doing in terms of knowing what he wants to do and hopes to achieve. With respect to how this behaviour effects me or others around him; most of the time he's oblivious. Of course, I can be calm and self-aware enough to state this when my children are snuggled against me on the sofa, quietly watching TV like they are now. By bedtime, when I've been alone with them for 12 hours and they've reduced the house to a shit tip, I'll be convinced that their behaviour is precisely calculated to drive me insane and may well shout...

Give yourself a break when you can, OP. The Playful Parenting book mentioned up thread is really good; lots about using silliness and humor to de-escalate those situations when you feel like you're about to explode. I even manage to follow the author's advice sometimes!

ExitStage, I've always dressed my 4 year old because he flatly refuses to do it himself and I like to leave the house occassionally. But when he started preschool 6 months ago and realised that his teacher wasn't going to help him, it turned out that he can dress himself perfectly well! I still do it way too often because my patience is limited, but I feel slightly better knowing he is at least capable.

Look at the website 'aha parenting by Dr Laura Markham. She is fantastic!

Also Bonnie Harris's website and book.

I was an angry shouting mother. With the help of the two women above I don't shout anymore and everyone in the house is calmer.

Good luck. It is possible to change it and it's so nice when you managed it.

I know this thread is over a month old but it came up when I did a search and I felt compelled to add my voice to the chorus of mothers having similar experiences!
Dd is 4 and for the past year and a half I've struggled with her constant whining, crying and shouting about everything and nothing. It's just been so draining, and I have lost my temper again, again and again. It's difficult in the heat of the moment but I know full well that reacting to a child's temper tantrums or the highs and lows of their emotions with anger and irritation just makes life worse for everyone. So many times I have shouted "stop shouting!!" and been embarrassed by the hypocrisy apologised to dd so many times for being a naughty mummy.
Ive realised I have foggy, unclear boundaries with regards to the behaviours and willing to accept, and end up giving empty warnings until I thoroughly lose patience. I also hear the words of my own mother when im telling her off, particularly when I've yelled that she is hard work . I remember how I felt when my own mum and dad told me off for various things and they would go on and on, sometimes winding me up further, then punishing me for reacting they have done this with dd a few times but I've told them what they are doing isn't fair or helpful. Then I feel like a hypocrite again.

I constantly feel like I've failed my daughter, especially now when she has started to scream at me to GO AWAY when I pick her up from grandparents after a few hours play. After 5-10 minutes she is "normal" again.

Despite all of this she is a happy, confident, loving and very clever child. Great at school. I don't appear to have dented her self esteem but I have definately ignited a temper in her.

I've really vented here so sorry from long post. Hole was right essentially about a lot of things, but her delivery was a bit off perhaps.

Hey Rasell
You lost your cool. You looked at your behaviour, decided that was contributing to the problem and sought advice so you can up your game. He's a lucky boy to have a proactive, caring mum.

All the best. Don't be too tough on yourself. They know which buttons to press and fortunately you're taking steps to change your reactions. Do keep us updated how you go!

marking spot to read at a more sensible hour. ....

Hello hello
As someone who's been losing her temper with her own 4 year old today just a reminder that Mumsnet's raison d'être is to make lives easier and that what we can ALL do with is some moral support
PEACE AND LOVE, eh?

I am so glad OP was stuck up for after the first poster said she was abusing her child

This is an extremely old post but i am wondering if OP @Rasell is still here and can let me know how is her teenager, did the yelling mess him up years later as i am going through the same and i am so worried of the long effect on my precious boy😭

@Newusername1234567 wow, this really is an old post!
I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this.
My boy is a wonderful teenager; creative, easy going, fun and talented. There is still some yelling on both sides, but not excessive. We're very close and have a trusting and open relationship...pretty much what I would've hoped for when he was little. I carry that regret and guilt with me always, though. It seems to have affected me more than him, thankfully.
I think that at the end of the day, none of us is perfect and as long as the child is getting a lot more love and positivity throughout the day some telling off and shouting won't have a massive, long lasting effect on him...but obviously, it won't do either of you any good and you want him to feel safe and cherished, not scared or forced.
There are loads of books, podcasts, insta posts and resources nowadays that might be helpful to you...and all of them say don't punish yourself for what you've done up til now and it's not too late. I think lots of armchair experts on mumsnet could do with listening to that. Mumsnetters are often incredibly cruel and seem to like the sound of their own voice!
Take stock today; he is only little and is pushing the boundaries. It's just a phase and everyone has done it. When you feel yourself about to boil over, imagine you've got a cappuccino; smell it, blow the foam...or pinch your earlobes and count...or leave the room for a quick breather if you can.
Raising kids is amazing but it's also hard and we're all learning as we go.
Everyone makes mistakes, I'm sure even @holeinmyheart has (if you're still around, your comment was awful, uneccessary and damaging).
Good luck to you and your precious boy! Xxx