I am at the end of my tether

[SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers]

I actually dont know wtf to do anymore. I could quite easily rip my hair out I feel that stressed.
I've posted a couple of times in the last 3 or 4 months about my dd and her behaviour but atm it is getting worse and worse.
As some of you may know, we moved house in the summer and then had a baby. DD has also started pre-school and she turned 3 last month.
Now everyone I speak to keeps saying how much of a change it is for her and yes I totally agree with that. I mean its a big enough change for me and dh and we are adults so it must be a huge thing for a little girl.
But it has got far past the whole change thing now and it is majorly spiralling out of control.
I am glad for the first time today that my parents have witnessed one major major scream fest and my mum has finally admitted that it was pretty bad. It was that bad, I actually thought she had gone blind or was having some sort of seizure because she clamped her eyes shut so tight and wouldnt open them. She was screaming mummy mummy even when I was holding her and nothing could console her. Altogether it lasted over an hour.
The other problems we have had are eating, wetting herself and bedtimes.
All this I have been told will ease and then finally stop. They are not its becoming more frequent rather than disappearing. She wets herself everyday about 3 or 4 times, depsite treats, encouragement, constant reminders, physically making her go, ignoring it, not ignoring it. Dinners, I have just totally passed to one side as it is so not an issue compared to the rest of the time. I've figured she eats when shes hungry, she doesnt starve herself so its not that bad.
Bedtimes are utterly horrendous. Previously we had an issue with having music when she went to bed. So as a result we took out the stereo and she didnt have it at all and tbh it was ok for about all of 2 nights. She looks for every delaying tactic going. Atm I honestly think the only way round it wouold be to take out every single thing in her room and I mean everything just to not give her an opportunity to delay bedtimes.
We put her stereo back in her room as it got that bad and again for the first couple of nights it was ok but after that she slipped back into her old ways and it was just as bad as before.
You give her a kiss and a cuddle, you tell her its the last one and the second you get to the door you can guarentee shes screaming kiss and cuddle again.
It is just so wearing now I cant describe how pissed off I am.

Dh thinks that we should be speaking to the HV about it all but even if we did, what exactly can she do?
All I do know is that something needs to be done because I cannot sit back and watch this carry on anymore.
My once delightful little girl has turned into a total monster and it makes me sad.

what's she like at pre school?

is she like this with everyone? what happens when you and or dh aren't there?

Thats another issue. She was ok at first but now when we take her its all screaming and tantruming.
I'm not sure what shes like there. All they say is that she stops the crying and tantrums a few minutes after we have gone. I think on Monday though I will speak to the head there and see what she has to say.

Ok, you've got to get seriously back in charge imo. Yes, she's reacting to a sibling probably but you need to show her that the boundaries are there, that they're consistent and that you love her, all at the same time.

Tantrums:
See if you can spot them coming. It's v often about attention imo so make sure she gets lots when she's being good or normal. Watch out for tiredness/being hungry/about to kick off times. Be consistent about what is and is not ok. So for eg screaming without telling me what the problem is is a cuddle and 'talk in a normal voice, tell me what you want' but if that gets no reaction then in my house we do "Right, you go OUTSIDE until you can tell me what you want" and she goes in the hall for a couple of minutes. When she comes back it's "Ok, use a normal voice, tell me what you want" and see if you can do what she wants or whether it's an unreasonable request.
Pick your battles. So what if she wants to be naked in the house ni the day time? Argue only when it matters/is crucial to safety or a rule.
Distract. This should work big time. If you can spot a tantrum coming and go for distraction it's much the best thing imo.
Bedtime: Tell her this is the rule and stick to it. You can say, ok, bath, music, cuddle and then BED. You get out, we put you back. And back and back and back and back until she gets the message. You are in charge, esp wrt bedtimes. Be calm but the message is 'it's bedtime, you are going to bed now.'
Eating: she won't starve herself, I think you've doing the right thing keeping calm and not worrying about it. Keep doing airy I don't care ness about this.
Wetting herself. If she's only just 3/potty trained I'd go back to nappies. If she's been trained ages then again, DON'T GIVE IT ATTENTION, just calmly change say 'oh, that's a shame, but never mind!" and don't react.
She's not a monster but I do understand why you feel it, she's unsettled but she WANTS you to show her boundaries imo. Someone here once said something like 'imagine being in a totally dark room and feeling about and NEVER ever finding a wall, how scary would that be?' to illustrate why children need and want rules and consistency from their parents.
Also, watch food. Sugar sends my ds wild as does lack of exercise/sleep so think about those.
Good luck, bet it's the last thing you need
being knackered with a new baby but it will pass, promise!

have you tried naughty steps?
it worked for my daughter. but it has to be done properly.
and for her screaming; can you try to change her focus to something else than what she was upset for. they dont understand logical explanations when they are screaming at that age.
i think there has been many changes for her and she is very young. moving home, having a new sibling, starting pre-school. these are very new things for her. especially having a new sibling.
she will get there but it may take time and a lot of patience.
wish you good luck.

sorry short answer as no time but put her back in nappies for a few months - at least that will sort thast out

agree agree agree with everything www hs said - deffo watch diet and drinks

Fantastic advice from www - glad she is back to give it. I don't really have much further to offer, other than definitely speak to the pre-school in more depth.

I feel so sorry for you - all this and a new baby too. You have several co-existing problems, for which you have tried several different solutions, none of which have worked. Talking this through with your HV might be a way of sorting out which problem you want to focus on tackling first, then deciding on a strategy that you feel you can stick with for long enough to work. Consistancy is the key. When you are overwhelmed by everything and trying lots of different strategies you end up with more stress and confusion. Dd realises you are floundering and gets more distressed and insecure. This is absolutely not your fault - please don't take this as criticism - it is really hard to be objective when you are frazzled and exhausted. The other thing is that everyone who looks after dd must agree and follow the same routine. Maybe you could decide to work on bedtime first, along with a consistant routine and no chance of overtiredness? Often, once you have got one problem solved, the others are easier to deal with. Agree that the food issue is of minor importance here - I wouldn't even discuss it. Present the food at the meal time, remove if not eaten within 15 - 20 minutes without comment. nothing until next meal. The tantrums and wetting may well lessen if the routine and bed time issue improves. I do hope you can get consistant support from other family members. Good Luck. It will pass, but it will take a bit of time.

Can't really add much to this, the old tricks are usually the best, but sympathise so much, and hope things get better soon - you sound completely knackered. I never really engaged that much with my HV, but it might be worth chatting it through with her, in case she sees things any differently. It must be exhausting with the baby as well. Good luck.

some good advice here, also from what i read in your op it sounds like you have been changing the way you are dealing with her behaviour - obviously trying to find something that works! but what she needs now is 'broken record'. you decide how you will respond to each thing (eg screaming you will do X - ignore / distract / move to different room and shut door etc) and do the same thing every time. this is not a quick fix and requires patience on your part, but eventually she will understand that if she does x then y will happen. at the moment there is uncertainty and shes pushing her luck - and your buttons!

i did some fairly odd things to get thru to my eldest - including putting the hoover on (hey, it worked!!) sometimes you need to get creative!

oh, and never ever ever change your mind! if you say no, it stays no otherwise she will always think if she makes enough of a fuss she can get her own way.

OK i can totally see why you're stressed out, is there any chance you can get a babysitter to give yourselves a break first of all? (even if you go out with the girls and dp babysits) you could do with going out with dp really to chat through how you are going to handle it all as you are both going to need to be strong and united in your approach or this will not work as quickly.

i would clear out her room, take it back to basics, def take away the stereo (do not give it her back it will make things worse, imo she is too young to need a stereo in her room anyway)

do a sticker chart, BUT YOU HAVE TO STICK WITH IT, BE CONSISTANT, give her a sticker for every 2 hours she is good (dont worry too much about wetting herself, if you can tackle the other stuff it will come together)
at the end of the week give her a treat for the stickers she has earnt (no matter how many she gets) tell her all week she will get a treat for the stickers she has earnt, when you can see she is about to go off the rails distract her and talk about the stickers and what treat she would like at the end of the week, give her little incentives as well, (i dont mean buy her stuff) i mean outings, feed the ducks if shes good etc.
either completely ignore the tantrums or give her a time out for it.

i hope some of what ive said will help.

i had trouble with a mindee a few weeks ago, he was being quite a handful with hitting, spitting, kicking, punching, being defiant etc and this is what i have done with him.

make sure bed times are calm and tell her what is coming, so after dinner say in 5mins we are going to give you a bath, 5 mins we are going to get you out of the bath, 5 mins we are going to get you dressed, 5 mins story, 5 mins cuddle and kiss then straight to sleep etc. i always say i love you and shut the door.

The running commentary is quite good actually, i use it all day so they always know whats coming.

maybe she is jelous, maybe she is finding it all new etc but it cant carry on like this can it. you are her mum and you can do this.

i really hope things improve, this will just be a phase. be kind to yourself get as much chill time as you possibly can. get dp to do bedtime for a bit and take yourself out for a drive for 15mins just to get out every night if it makes you feel better.

Thanks ladies

Diet is pretty good. We did a sweet ban as this was causing some problems so now she has no snacks just meals.

WWW, that idea of the dark room really makes me sad. To think thats where my dd is right now is awful.
Surely wetting herself should be easing now though. We've been doing the no fuss thing for ages and it just doesnt seem to make an ounze of difference.

I've certainly been walking the dog more as a result. Just to get 5 mins peace!
No one else looks after her as we live away from family and I'm a sahm.

We've changed bedtime to 6:30pm now rather than 7pm and from dinner time she gets a running commentry of whats going to happen eg, playtime, bath, bed etc.

This all so hard. I never imagined that I would have this to deal with.

Poor you YellowFeathers- sounds horrendous. I do think it's the changes, despite the extent of her tantrums- new house and new sibling are classic triggers for horrendous behaviour- she's feeling all unsettled and she wants you to know it, imo! She's also checking that you still love her after the arrival of the interloper (aka known as her cute and adorable sibling grabbing all the available positive attention chiz chiz grr) and can cope when she falls apart a bit. You must all be exhausted with the move and new baby too and your hormones and emotions will be all over the place.

I guess you need to break things down and tackle one thing at a time. I'd start with sleep because it might make a big difference to her behaviour and tackling bedtimes etc might make you feel more positive and in control. Have you tried the returning her to bed technique they do on Little Angels etc? Basically you have a good bedtime routine- bath, story, bed, kiss, cuddle, night night, tuck her in, leave. Then when she gets up first time say calmly and nicely "It's bedtime darling" (and NOTHING else) and return her to bed. Next time say calmly "bedtime" (and NOTHING else) and return her to bed. On all subsequent occasions say nothing at all, just return her to bed. Do not, whatever you do, allow her to engage you in conversation- be boring and calm, don't make eye contact, shush under your breath if it helps you and don't give in once you've started. It can take hundreds of returns for the first couple of nights but really seems to work for many folk. You would need dh to be fully involved and maybe take the lead on it so that you can give the baby any attention it needs while dd shows you how cross she is at the turn of events and tests your new bedtime rule to the max. You can get dd on board by using some kind of reward for her too- but that won't be enough on it's own unless she's far more compliant than she sounds!

With the tantrums- can you ignore her a bit more? It is normal for them to be volatile at this age and tantrum all over the place but it sounds like she's getting quite a lot of shocked and horrified attention when she does this (understandably) and that can make things escalate. Any kind of attention will be good at the moment- she is competing with a cute new baby, remember, and will resort to any tactic she can. Can you put her in her room or somewhere else safe to calm down a bit? Holding her while she screams at you sounds like a recipe for everyone to get crosser and crosser if you are anything like me and she is anything like my sons!

And most importantly- what is she doing right at the moment? What do you love doing with her? What is her and dh's favourite game? Make as much time as humanly possible to spend time with her- I imagine it's v hard with a new baby and house- and tell her every tiny solitary thing she is doing right and how much you love her. Use your irritation as a cue to remind you to praise her for small steps towards good behaviour. She really will be looking all the time for reassurance that you love her still even though the world is different from how she thought it was and there are other people in her world you love as well and that will take time to get used to and lots of tests to chack all is well. The more positive attention you and dh can lavish on her within the new world and confusing and busy world you are all in the better.

Do hope things get better and KNOW they will, whether any of these things appeal or work or not. You are all adjusting to massive changes in your family set up and the dust will settle in due course, I'm sure.

www's said everything I wanted to say already in fewer words! Doh. It is lovely to have you back, hon.

Yes I forgot to add, nice to see your name again WWW.

agree with WWW totally .. fab post

You might also want to consider having a family meeting when she is feeling good

Talking about how sad you know she's feeling sometimes and how sad you feel too sometimes. Working out together (well obviously you telling her and getting her to agree to) some simple rules and drawing them up in PICTURES so its easy for her to follow and be reminded and having a big giggle and agreement over what you are going to do together

obviously this won't work for ALL issues that you're facing but maybe you could pick one of them and use it .. maybe bedtime??

you could have a big tick chart for bedtime .. so you have a picture of bath .. and when she's had a bath you do a big tick

book .. big tick

kiss and cuddle .. big tick

sleep .. and you tick it overnight

Shinyyf, I had some truly awful times with my ds at 3/4, I so sympathise, it is horrible. But he's (mostly) a gorgeous 9yo now!

ticks v good idea imo.

And remember that the normal response to changes - moving, new baby etc is for small children to regress. You have to go back a couple of stages and help her through them again. You are having to go through the terrible twos again with a bigger, louder child. But you will get through it.

Thats very true littlefrogs.
I like the big ticks idea. I could do that tomorrow night.

lots of good advice here - so nice to see www back as well.

My two sons certainly weren't easy children at that age. For me, lots of exercise and getting them out and about helped. A trip to the park, getting their bikes out, anywhere where they could let off steam. Somehow they seemed less of a handful when they were running around in a safe place outside. The bonus was that it tired them out, so however impossible they were beforehand, after going out, they had less enegy to be naughty and keeping up their activity levels helped the sleep thing as well. Exercise outdoors also of couse helped their apetites, (though I have to say neither of them were fussy eaters to begin with).

I know it's more difficult getting out and about if you have a baby, but try building in more park trips to your week if possible and see if it helps at all.

Another thing that might help is having a later bedtime for your dd. I know this might put more stress on your evenings, but if a later bedtime means your dd goes to sleep more quickly and happily,it may be worth it. My sons when they were 3 years old wwould never have settled down to sleep at 6.30, or even 7.00 pm most nights. They would have tantrummed and rebelled a lot. To ensure they slept, their bedtime routine ended about 7.30 to 8.00 pm.

If your baby is normally asleep around 6.30pm getting your dd to bed later also means she has some evening alone time with you, when you can lavish attention and praise if she is good.

As for the wetting herself, have you taken her to the doctor? It could be that there is a problem but if not, having the doctor talk to her about it might be a good thing.

I completely sympathise with you and agree with everyhting that WW said.
My DD is also 3 and has turned into the devil......having me in tears on several occasions.
I have been using a "good girl chart" for the last 2 weeks, with specific things that she has to complete to get stickers ie - getting dressed, putting coat on to leave the house, eating tea, getting ready for bath etc. For all other bad behaviour she gets one warning and then if the behaviour continues she goes straight into time out for 3 minutes.
It has been hard work (actually that is an understatement) but finally after 2 weeks we have been able to buy her a small gift for her good behaviour this week
Also, if she doesnt want to do something then I say "OK then thats fine" and carry on without any other comment - for example, no coat on mummy, OK then, we will still go out and you will be cold - it works -
Much love to you, you are not theonly one going through this, I think 3 is worse that 2 to be honest

TM, i did consider an infection as its gone on so long.
It probably doesnt help that ds doesnt sleep at all during the day but sleeps through the night.
I'm not sure about the later nights though as shes been waking at 6am.