5yr old again-help to 'decode' a message from teacher pls!

[kizzie]

Hi - saw Ds teacher today. She said he has been in trouble a couple of times this week (eg. didnt sit quietly in assembly one morning.) i asked her whether she thought he was/is improving but found it very difficult to get a straight answer out of her. (To be honest she is quite wishy washy. Everyone thinks the same.)

Although DS is doing v well with his reading and a lot of his school work she didnt really have anything positive to say and said that he does have 'a problem with attenion.'

I tried to get more information from her - she said he sometimes finds it difficult to sit still on the carpet and to concentrate but that it isnt consistent (ie. sometimes he is fine).
She said at the moment that although there is a problem she doesnt have any 'strong evidence' to ask for an assessment.

She also said he can be very emotional and stroppy if he doesnt get his own way (this is true).

I was v upset when I came away - just because it was so negative - but now I just feel up in the air. Do I need to do something - be worried.

Thanks for any thoughts. Im sorry im going on and on about this.
Kizziex

Kizzie, I'm sure you'll get much more knowledgable help in a minute, but I can tell you this. I help out in dd's class once a week (same age group as your ds) and what the teacher has said about your son describes exactly at least 3 or 4 children in the class (out of 24). If you take out the very emotional and stroppy bit you could add another 3. There are several in the class who consistently find it hard to concentrate, never mind sometimes. She sounds rather pathetic to me, and I can't really see anything in that description that makes it sound as though your ds needs assessing.

You poor thing, I can see how upset you must be. It's so good that he's doing well with reading and schoolwork. I would bet it's just his age.

what age is your ds? i think most kids no matter how good they are find it hard to concentrate and sit still all day.
i know my dd teacher talks about dd in same way and when i asked her how often this was happening she said it was most of the children in the class and she couldn't pin point how often my dd was doing it. so i would ask is it a general thing in his class and if he is very young don't worry. my ds could strop for britain and cries like a baby if dd dares looks at his cars let alone touches them.

I've just been reading this back through after your message lieman and thinking why on earth did I assume Kizzie's ds was 5, but then realised it was in the title

tamum, thats me with one eye on the computer and one hand trying to seperate 2 kids fighting over the dogs bone!!!!

I am a secondary teacher, and I am sure that there will be more experiences mns allong to give you some useful information soon.

First off, as a mother I'd say that you rson sound very like my son. He also finds it hard to cencentrate for long periods of time, he is fine sometimes, but sometimes not. Mt dd can also be emotional and stroppy when she doesn't get her own way, but this is improving with time.

As a teacher, I'd say that if there wasn't strong evidence for an assessment, I'd try not to worry too much. To be quite honest what you have described rings true for a number of perfectly normal 16 year old boys that I teach! Have a break from this this weekend and when you next see you ds's teacher ask her if she is concerned, and if there is anything that you can do as a team to help your ds.

HTH and that better qualified people are along soon.

my dd school brought in the enriched curriculum to her school this year which gives them more freedom to move from table to table doing different activities all day. talking to other mums this seems to really suit this age group especially the boys who are out doing the girls for the first time at this school. the work is still being done but the boys are enjoying it much more. this curriculum is being brought in all over n.i. in the year 2005 is there no sign of it where you are?

Hi I'm a primary school teacher onm maternity leave avoiding ofsted. I wouldn't worry too much. If she says there is no evidence for assessment then the problem might not be that serious. He has plenty of time to develop. I would go in on a positive like hmb said. Be all smiley and don't mention the negatives. Sorry if you have already tried this and it didn't work, I'll keep thinking.

That sounds a bit patronising now I've read it back and I didn't mean it to. I'm still thinking

Kizzie, me again - I keep seeing your messages and thinking you could be me talking - particularly the "what to do?"

Even if his teacher doesn't seem to be suggesting an assessment, might you consider asking for that yourself? I'm suggesting that not at all because I think you have a serious problem - nothing you've said in your postings so far makes me think that - but because having a tangible plan of action helped me. Seeing an educational psychologist was genuinely helpful for us - particularly so as the chap we saw had real sympathy for way school structure (and maybe teachers?) often suits sensible mature little girls far better than fizzing little boys. He certainly made me able to think about ds in a different way and we're all the happier for it.

Kizzie,
I think the sooner you start your boys on the IQ/Omega3, the better. I'm sure the concentration is a high energy boy thing.I've also been told by their teacher, that one of my DS's gets very stroppy if he can not get his own way, I knew exactly what she ment, as I get it at home as well, screaming, crying and generally carrying on.
I told her what I do, which is to completely ignore him, or send him to his room, he only does it for effect and is a complete drama queen.
I told her she has my permission to put him outside, if she needs to.Luckily though, she had already sussed it was just a show, as she has got to know him pretty well.
Perhaps, the teacher is too soft, especially if she seems "wishy washy" the kids will pick up on that. My DS's teacher is quite strict, which I think they need, as they don't get away with much at home either.

Hi kizzie
Just my thoughts, but it strikes me that your little boy can't be doing too badly with concentrating if his reading is coming along well - you can't learn to read if you're not paying attention some of the time. He is only 5 - my two (dd age 8 & ds age 7) had strops at school pretty often at least until into yr 1, particularly DD, though now are well-behaved most of the time. It's amazing how they mature in a short time.
Have helped out as a mum in reception and seen lots of children struggle with sitting still and concentrating for long periods (or even short ones!). Have a great deal of respect for teachers of this age group, 'cos it seems like hard work to me, however surely one of the teacher's skills should be to find activity to capture your child's attention and help him to develop his concentration. Perhaps you should ask her what ideas she has for helping him to improve in this area.
Personally, wouldn't be too quick to jump to the 'assessment' option - may well result in a 'problem' label where one is not appropriate.
Have also sadly found that some teachers (not all) do seem to focus on the negative and I have been known to cry in the car on the way home as a result of this (pathetic mummy, I know).
Don't know if this is helpful, hope so.

Kizzie,
Have you seen 'twogorgeousboys' helpful post on the 'not concentrating at school' thread - sorry, don't know how to cross-post.
Also, can someone enlighten me about fish oils for children?

Thankyou for all your messages!!

I really appreciate all your advice.

This all started (as I wittered on here about for hours) at christmas when DS twin 1 was disruptive during rehearsals for school play. The teacher was very stressed (there are many more boys in the class than girls which doesnt help) and wanted to ban him from the play. I was adamant that he shouldnt be because it would be just like saying 'if you dont want to do something then just misbehave and you wont have to.'

Anyway in the end she agreed but in one of her more stressed moments she did mention watching him for ADHD. This of course freaked me out and Ive been watching really ever since.

RE. comparing to rest of the class - I did ask this and she said he was worse than the others but then one of the other mums had helped in the class this week and made a point of coming over to me the other day and saying that she couldnt believe how much he had settled down this term and how well behaved he had been (she has an older son who is quite similar in personality.)

I have thought about getting a private assessment but to be honest i am worried about him being labelled if theres not actually a problem.
He IS significantly further ahead the DS twin 2 in reading and is in the top few in class. When he is quiet at home he sits and plays with lego for a long time and also does jigsaws for 8-10 yr olds on his own

Was thinking today to maybe try and put into place all the things people suggested in my other thread (star charts/ fish oils etc.) / see how the rest of this school year goes and then wait and see how he settles with a new teacher in september. The one he has now definately focusses on the negative - particularly with the boys in the class.

Then if still an issue go down the assessment route. DS would be 5 1/2 then. IF there is actually a problem do you think Id be doing him any harm by waiting?

I know this is irrational but Im really starting to resent the teacher beacuse she is just so negative and has made me question my son. I know its my problem, though,and ive got to stop looking for a problem all the time.
Kizziex

I dont think you will be doing him any harm by waiting. A new teacher could make all the difference even if its just breaking the cycle of you asking if things are ok and she thinking well actually he did do this today. I bet some of the things she tells you she wouldn't mention normally it's just cos you were there. Take on board what the other mum said about him improving and hold on to it

Hmmmm Kizzie, your plight has made my reach for my wine bottle!

What's all this cr-p about banning your little boy from a school play, and the possibility of ADHD about? (Sorry, have now drunk large glass of said wine). I get really upset when I hear what is said by fellow members of the teaching profession to parents sometimes, especially regarding very young children who've only been in school 5 minutes. Hope you have read the thread about concentration as I would say pretty much the same to you in terms of advice.

Do not worry, and do not allow the school to label your child - he's bright, lively and i cannot see what there is to worry about at this stage.

Thankyou (again!) think I need some of that wine!
I'll go and have a look at that other thread now.

Binkie - forgot to say - I tried to do a search earlier but couldnt find it - what did your report say in the end. i know youve said that you feel so much happier and at ease now but I must have missed the actual note about it.
Kizziex

kizzie - your son sounds a lot like mine. He gets bored during 'whole group' activities at school when he isn't getting attention from his teacher and his attention wanders big style, and he gets incredibly emotional and stroppy when he doesn't get his own way and isn't first to do things and flounces off in a huff. His teacher fortunately handles it really well and just ignores the huffing and talks to him normally. There is a boy with ADHD in my DS's class and his behaviour is in no way the same, I volunteer one day a week and can see the difference. I think that the teacher is handling it badly and is not a strong enough personality to deal with your DS's obvious liveliness and strong personality, and it does seem to me that holding off until he has some time in a new class (ie at least until Christmas) would do him no harm.

HTH WMxx

kizzie, here is a link to the thread I put the main outcome from the assessment on - as you will see I had a very particular concern about signs of Asperger's and as time has gone on since the assessment I am agreeing more and more with the ed psych in ruling that out.

It took a while to get the written report, but when it came it was a lovely warm appreciation of ds & his bouncy eccentric inquisitiveness - made such a difference from school reports deploring his inability to sit nicely - and was just the change of point of view I needed.

Thanks Wedgiesmum - your little boy does sound very similar. Ive actually changed my work hours round so that Im going to be able to help in the classroom too - hoping that will help.

Binkie - thanks for the link. Your little boy sounds lovely!
Kizziex

That's such a good idea, it will give you an opportunity to see for yourself exactly what is going on, and will give you an informed opinion as to how he is really behaving in relation to others, and how the teacher handles it. If you want to talk about it at all - even if it's only to moan to someone with a similar child - or exchange coping strategies (!!) please contact me through 'Contact another talker'.

Kizzie, I'm no expert (ds only 9mos) but my an idiot reception teacher suggested (vaguely) to my SIL that her ds was autistic because he did sit still and concentrate! So if your ds was doing exactly the opposite there still might be some silly s*d around trying to frighten you. There are good, bad and indifferent teachers, just as there are good, bad and indifferent people in every line of work.
My nephew's fine (and over the last year or two has actually developed so much more into other people now) and I'm sure your ds will be too. It is asking a lot of very active, very small children, to sit still and concentrate for significant lengths of time. It's a skill they have to learn, like any other, and it takes a while.

Thanks wedgiesmum - may well do that!

eddm - tahnks for replying. Im hoping that by actually going into the school I'll get a better idea of how the teacher deals with situations as a whole.
Kizziex

I think your son sounds lovely - interesting and interested, bright, lively and NORMAL! I think some people like to worry others to cover up their own insecurities. When my ds cried and cried at nursery the stupid woman told me it was because I "didn't leave him with people"....er...I leave him with YOU - you stupid bint!
I was also very upset by the implication that a/there was something wrong with him and b/it was my fault. Now I just feel cross that her silly comments got to me. As someone else wisely said, a child who can read well at five and do jigsaws does NOT have a problem with attention. Grrr.

Well, he hasn't got ADHD if he plays with lego for long periods and does jigsaws! Why can't teachers just cope with the slightly more difficult kids without moaning, and just teach! At this age anyway. Its too soon to start looking for trouble. (IMHO!)