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Original poster

4 year old impossible to potty train and starting school in Sept - any advice?

54 replies

puddymuddles · 28/04/2015 09:38

I have been trying to potty train DD1 since she was 3 years old. She is a bright girl and has no obvious special needs but refuses to use the potty/toilet and seems afraid of growing up - always saying that she does not want to get bigger or go to school and talks about when she was a baby and the things she had and toys she played with almost as if she wants to be a baby again.

She goes to nursery 2 afternoons a week and has a younger sister who is 2 and I am expecting DC3 in June.

Her keyworker at nursery says I should ask to be referred to a child psychologist as DD has been saying lots of things at nursery about how she doesn't want to grow up etc. Everything else at nursery is fine - she is well behaved and has lots of friends.

I have been to GP who dismissed my concerns and said they couldn't refer her to anyone as she does not have a physical problem.

All the things that work on my friends' children do not work on her - bribes, star charts, rewards, getting big girl knickers I have tried them all. The most she has ever done is agree to wear knickers at home and has done a few wees on the toilet then seems to get fed up and doesn't want to use it anymore and just has constant accidents. I am starting to encourage DD2 to use the potty and she is a lot more interested but then DD1 gets even more upset and won't do it at all.

Please help - she is due to start Reception in Sept - they will think I am some lazy parent who hasn't bothered to toilet train my child whereas I have been stressed about this for ages.

Should I go back to the GP?

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Original poster
puddymuddles · 01/05/2015 10:16

DD2 took her nappy off yesterday and did wees and a poo in potty and DD1 is trying to use it a bit now. I will ditch the nappies for both of them and see what happens!!!!

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FujimotosElixir · 01/05/2015 10:26

i could have wrote this, he would wee in the loo,but pooing was a horrendous ordeal he mastered it the may before starting full time, every now and again if something changes, he gets upset he will regress slightly, for me i rewarded trying, and "deliberate accidents" were punished by confiscation.

PeterParkerSays · 01/05/2015 10:53

I wouldn't worry about the hand drier thing, my DS was also terrified of them as well and has taken until he was 5 to start using them and even then only the ones he thinks look safe / sound not too loud. A very noisy one he won't use. I just keep hand gel in my bag and let him use that to clean his hands instead of washing them or ask him to wash them and let him dry them on my jumper / skirt etc instead. That one's not worth sweating over.

How is your DD with age related activities - does she have a balance bike where her younger sibling has a tricycle, for example?

Goldmandra · 01/05/2015 10:53

It's worth looking into Aspergers in girls. The symptoms can be very subtle while also having a huge impact on children's well-being. Tony Attwood has written a lot about it.

I was very surprised when my DD was diagnosed aged 12 until I read about it and realised how skewed my perception of the condition was.

Mrsjayy · 01/05/2015 16:07

Could she have developmental co ordination disorder (dyspraxia) it sometimes goes along with hypermobility dyspraxic children like routine and dont cope well with change

Mrsjayy · 01/05/2015 16:10

Being scared of handryers isnt unusual i dont think those things are fierce

Cedar03 · 01/05/2015 21:17

Being scared of the hand driers is pretty normal these days as they are both too loud and often right at the child's face height.

OP sounds like you are getting some positive interest in the right direction from both girls so that's good news.

Original poster
puddymuddles · 01/05/2015 23:11

Fuji - that is really encouraging!

Peter Parker - they both have scooters. DD1 got one aged 3, took a while to learn how to use it properly/steer it etc and DD2 picked it up very quickly when she got it for her 2nd birthday. She does want a bike but doesn't ride the ones they have at nursery.

Goldmandra - Interesting. I thought as she is so good verbally and is fine socially with other children that ASD very unlikely. Will google Tony Attwood. What were the symptoms your DD had?

Mrsj - I had thought of dyspraxia actually as she had problems putting her shoes and socks on/dressing herself - though part of it is that she doesn't want to try I think. Nursery keyworker has taught her to put her own coat on - very recently she didn't do that either. DD2 can put shoes and socks on herself now and tries to dress herself. I didn't know it often went with hypermobility.

OP posts:
Mrsjayy · 02/05/2015 08:02

You probably have already but google hypermobility and dyspraxia.

Goldmandra · 02/05/2015 12:23

Dyspraxia, dyslexia, Asperger's, etc have lots of similarities and shared symptoms and hypermobility does seem to be very common in all of these conditions.

My DDs both have diagnoses of AS but presented very differently at this age. DD1 was quiet, very verbally articulate and interested in puzzles and activities with adults at this age whereas DD2's speech was just above normal for her age and she enjoyed the company of other children but struggled more with sensory processing.

Children with ASDs do tend to have quite spiky profiles, meaning that they develop well for their age in some areas but can be very behind in others without a logical reason. They all seem to have different patterns in terms of where the spikes are.

I hope you get a helpful response from your HV.

Mrsjayy · 02/05/2015 18:42

Yeah there is no 1 type or trait to a lot of conditions is there I guess that might be why they are complicated to diagnose

TeWiSavesTheDay · 02/05/2015 19:52

Just to add to others comments with my challenging DD1 - we did consider pretty much every asd related possibility (she had other issues too) but at 3/4 her symptoms weren't obvious enough to get back up from preschool for a dx, we tried at 5 for sensory processing but again not enough symptoms.
which sucks, in some ways but the reality is she does cope okay at the moment (she's 6) and putting a lot, lot, lot of our time and energy into the things she found hard (like potty training) did pay off. For us I would say it was about building a new normal for DD1, where she was able herself to recognise the importance of going to the toilet on time. (not just that other people think it matters!)
so... don't be afraid of trying to tackle the potty issues just because you aren't entirely sure what is going on. If she's getting distressed then back off, but otherwise there's no harm in trying in a kind but firm way. And if you try everything and nothing works then that gives you more to go back to the HV/GP with.

I hope none of this is relevant and the nappy off time has gone well! Wine and Cake for you!

Vijac · 02/05/2015 22:53

I do think you need to talk to an expert. I am not an expert but I think I would be tempted to leave it for one month-no talk of nappies, toilets or being grown up or a big girl. Just put her in nappies, no comments. At the beginning you could say 'if you ever want pants or to go on the toilet just let me know'. Then after a month ask one morning, do you want to go on the toilet today? Maybe feeling the pressure off she will.

Another alternative would be to just get rid of all her nappies etc and she just wears pants regardless. Don't make a fuss if there's an accident but no reverting. Good luck!

Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:56

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:57

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:57

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:57

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:58

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:58

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:58

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
Original poster
puddymuddles · 02/05/2015 22:58

MrsJ - thanks have googled it, I now know there is a possible link between hypermobility and lots of other things including dyspraxia.

Goldmandra - what do you mean when you say your articulate DD2 struggled with sensory processing? What kinds of things did she struggle with? In addition to the hypermobility DD1 refused to eat non- mushy food until about age 2 - even now she won't eat really hard things like raw carrots though is much better and eats most things now. Is this what people mean by sensory processing?

TeWi - thanks for that info. The potty training has gone a lot better today as both of them are doing it. DD1 even used the potty when out! They have both had a few accidents too of course but DD1 seems to be doing it because DD2 is doing it - will see how she is at nursery on Tues when DD2 can't be there with her! So it seems to be going well.....but I don't want to get too excited yet!

OP posts:
TeWiSavesTheDay · 03/05/2015 08:08

That sounds great!

Original poster
puddymuddles · 03/05/2015 10:06

Not sure how I managed to post about ten times!!!!

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Original poster
puddymuddles · 05/05/2015 23:16

So just to update DD has been at nursery this afternoon for 5 hours and used potty no accidents! Does still have the occasional wee accident (usu when tired and before I put her in nighttime nappy) but basically so pleased we are getting there. DD2 is determined to stay in knickers and really trying to use potty though she has a couple of wee accidents a day (usually when she is on her scooter!) but there is no going back with her, have to persevere with both of them!

Nursery asked me why I think DD1 suddenly agreed to do it - I said I think DD2 wanting to do it also I told DD1 she didn't have to be a big person to use the potty - she still has this thing that she doesn't want to grow big but i will not worry about that for now!

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TeWiSavesTheDay · 06/05/2015 11:31

Yay! That's great. Hopefully the bring big will resolve itself once she's at school and realises it's pretty fun!