Overbearing narcissistic 5 year old son-advice needed

[Bellejessleo]

Hi, I'm just looking for some advice really. My ds is 5 and in reception at school. He has always been quite a demanding, spirited child..even from newborn. It's starting to dawn on me, mainly from him starting reception and me comparing him to his peers, that he's really controlling in every situation. He has to go first, be the best, everyone has to play 'his' games the way he wants. Doesn't seem to show genuine empathy or care for other peoples feelings. At home he is the same, and I really struggle to get him to consider his sister (2.9 years), or me or his dad. His behaviour is quite bad, he throws tantrums like a 2 year old. Crying and screaming etc.
I struggle to get him to do anything that he doesn't want to do. I'm feeling really sad, like I'm raising a little boy that just isn't very nice. I try and encourage him to be nice to people and respect things, but I'm feeling a bit lost and am worried he's actually abnormal?
Is it possible to be a narcissist at 5 years old? Because that is what he is! I'm overly worried about this because his uncle and gran are and I know it runs in families.

younger dd's case (sibling rivalry with dc3)

I don't think it's fair to immediately lay the blame at the mothers door. The are many factors that contribute towards a child behaviour.

'Lazeretto' could u link the websites, or just tell me them? And the books about anxious children? Thank you everyone for all for your help, I feel like you've helped me see things a bit clearer, I think you've probably got it right between u.
I try not to compare him to my dd, I never ever would to his face. But in my head I feel so guilty for finding my dd so much easier to handle. I want to be able to feel completely proud of my ds, and able to enjoy his company but I'm just having to walk on eggshells around him. It makes me so sad.

I find my dd is anxious and that causes bad behaviour and temper and showing love or trying to connect before getting her to stop makes things better. She's open to learning about what she did wrong after the moment has passed but here very defiant when tackled head on. Interested to see what people suggest for your ds.

"He's always been a high needs baby..colic, reflux." That's physical, not behavioural. You can't lump them all under the same umbrella.

I do think earlier suggestions of trying the SN board may be helpful to either point you in the right direction or allay concerns.

'Bigfoot' I know reflux is physical, but I think his colic was actually more of an emotional reaction to him not being able to handle over-tiredness and over-stimulation. And he is still very much the same now. 'Gen35' that is exactly how my son is, shouting at him or lecturing him gets me no-where. If he's done something wrong I'm much better off using a softly softly approach than going in all guns blazing.

I would ask for an ed psych assessment if things don't resolve. I massively regret not getting one done sooner for my ds. Years at primary of thinking something was wrong and getting fobbed off by teachers. We paid privately in the end. Finally got to the bottom of it in year 5. Go with your instinct about your child. Ask for an assessment.

This site is a good start
www.ahaparenting.com/

the first thing you need to do is try to regulate yourself so you can be more mindful and really observe /hear what is going on for him. It's important to understand his triggers. The abc of behaviour is also useful.

synapse.org.au/get-the-facts/abc-approach-to-behaviour-fact-sheet.aspx

It's hard...It's exhausting...nut it is worth it. You are not alone, there are many parents with children who suffer from anxiety. Key is to realise your child cannot help it and it's difficult for them to help themselves. Raising self esteem and teaching them alternatives to reducing anxiety is important. Also pick your battles...Some. controlling behaviour needs to be addressed but not in one moment...its a slow mission...little actions daily...even small ones like not allowing him to control the order of an activity even if it's inconsequential.. He needs to realise even if he can't control things, nothing bad will happen because he can deal with the resulting anxiety.

OP, my son is very similar. We had a meeting with his teachers recently to make sure we were dealing with his behaviour at home and at school in the same way.

We and school have found that routine and structure help. He likes to know what is happening in advance. Lots of warnings, "in 5 minutes, we're going to be doing this".

Rewards for good behaviour rather than punishment for bad.

Lazretto above has very good advice.

Good luck, my son is only five, I find his behaviour very challenging.

Agree, you need consistency with their approach at school. Inconsistency will probably trigger his anxiety.

'Lazaretto' thank you I will look at those. I really need some real life guidance and advice, somebody to look at us and tell me where I'm going wrong. Point me in the right direction with how to help him. I will speak to his teacher if I can get hold of her at school.

Seriouslyffs, I think that was uncalled for. The OP is reaching out for help and you've basically told her that she's completely wrong...but that if she is right, it's all her fault.

OP I think you've had some unnecessarily harsh responses when you are just looking for guidance. There is a child in my family a little like this from a young age and it's been challenging. The family try to put in place very strong boundaries because sometimes his behaviour seems like a need to test whether he really is stronger than everyone else. A part of him wants to be but a part of him needs to be a child with stronger adults in charge.

There's a book called 'raising your spirited child' which might help but also I'd seek a referral to a child psychologist just to help you identify whether you are on the right lines with your approach.

We all need guidance belle. I couldn't have coped without the help from others. It's not you failing if you don't know what to do... but you can find out...although it can be tough getting support. If you have the resources an assessment by a private ed psych might help.

Harsh responses are so out of order. Well done for recognising that your son appears to be rather more controlling than his peers and wanting to help him than being a parent in denial.

Every school has a SENCO you can ask to speak to them.

Another thing that may help is talking to him about his conflicting feelings - how scary it must be when things aren't going how he thought they would/should. Helping children label their emotions and do realise others feel them too can help.

All the best.

OP you need to be kinder and more nurturing towards your son. It sounds like you are controlling and difficult. Perhaps if you lighten up on the demands and are gentler with him, he won't feel the need to act out what he is seeing from you. I know this is harsh and I mean it that way. He is FIVE and deserves better than you're giving him.

Fwiw I completely sympathize, what helps me keep even (most of the time) is to go through all the many scenarios likely to result in bad behaviour, and figure beforhand which fights to fight (lying, kicking etc) and which to let go (wanting to control food, clothes) and know exactly which consequence for the major misdemeanors so it gets automatic - oh he's hitting, I'm going to remove myself and dc and take x toy away, tell him nicely that I understand he's cross but hitting isn't ok, leave him somewhere safe and let him burn it off. When he's calm, you talk it through. I also list all the things dd is in control of, explain this increases as you get older year on year and just try and get through the specific instances of tantrums with as little harm or temper engagement as possible. When we're out, pick up and straight home for bad behaviour with just a warning and then do it fast don't string it out. They kick off but over time the outside tantrums have reduced....

Thank you everyone, 'fizzy cola' how do u know how kind or nurturing I am towards my son? Do u know him, me? Have anything more helpful than a serious misguided judgement to make. Most of the posters have been so helpful and have given me the advice I needed. What I love about this site. People like you give mumsnet a bad name. I'm sure your children are perfect and you are a perfect mother!

My DS (also age 5) can be like this OP. He has a diagnosis of mild ASD with, we think, anxiety/separation disorder. So we try to see things from his point of view and roll with the punches. Occasionally I nip upstairs to scream into a pillow.

I'd start with speaking to school and GP. There's a lot you've mentioned (need for routine, needing things explained explicitly, need for control, demand avoidance etc) that could point to an anxiety based need or similar. I also know how hard it is to deal with when yiur faced with it daily and looking at it from the inside - people looking at it from the outside may see things differently.

I don't think there's any need for the harsh posts the OP is receiving - she's clearly struggling enough.

fizzy - I think you are the one being harsh. Belle has asked for help and advice. You are being judgemental and unhelpful.

Depending on where you are (presume you're in the UK's), it can be months before an Ed Psych gets round to seeing a child who's been referred to her by the Senco. On the other hand, it might be better to have the assessment done by the Ed Psych attached to your school because they can then work together as a team to support your child. They will come on and observe your child, work with the teaching staff and so on. And it's free!

What was your DS like at pre-school, OP? Any problems they noticed with his social interactions?

I am sorry if I sounded unhelpful. I knew what I said was harsh. I was really disgusted that a mother could call her child such negative things, use such strongly dismissive words. I felt that was unkind, it was more than letting off steam and I felt it was reflective of an unkind attitude and a controlling attitude towards the child. So I am not sorry for what I say, I stand by it. I do think when things get tough you have to be the kindest you possibly can and not let it get the better of you. Good luck anyway, you have indeed had some helpful advice.

OP I don't think you were unkind at all. It's the hardest thing, not to like a child. For them and for you. I hope the excellent advice you've had helps. When things get overwhelming, remember how little he really is.

I am going to speak to his regular teacher, surprise surprise though she's off again today! So I'm going to ring the school and ask them if I can make an appointment with her or who I can speak to about concerns over my ds. Then see where we go from there. I know a certain amount of controlling behaviour is normal in his age group and nothing to worry about. But his need for control does feel to me like something more than that. His auntie has aspergers as well, so with that and the history of anxiety and narcs in the family I think he may have a strong disposition to be this way. 'Fizzy' surprisingly actually I'm the least controlling person, a bit of a push over actually and a softy. Which causes endless arguments with my dh as he thinks I should toughen up with him. 'Surburban' he didn't have any real problems at pre-school, he thrived there and was mostly very well behaved. He had an excellent key worker who just seemed to understand him and 'get' how to bring out the best in him. She was amazing! He actually is a very popular child and was at pre-school. He very often will be the 'leader' or 'initiator' in games and creative play. He appears so outwardly confident that if you didn't know him you really wouldn't think there was any problems.