Toddler behaviour - bit out of my depth!

[SproutsMa]

Hi every one - bit of background. My 2yr old son has some strong flags for autism. I'm an older mum, not a huge amount of experience with little ones, but I do adore my boy. He's just turned 2 and his behaviour is changing - I dont know how much of it is entirely normal for the "terrible twos" and how much I am reading into it being something else. How much behaviour change (willfulness, tears, independence, moody etc) should I expect as normal toddler behaviour?

Eek - I sound totally incapable!

Can you give examples of what behaviour is concerning you?

2 is a challenging age They do naturally get moody, push their independence, cry a lot...

Wait 'til he gets to three! My DD can be a right diva.

Seriously, as Thurlow says, can you give some examples? From 18 months my DD became more independent and I noticed changes - wilful, tearful, moods, throwing, shouting...

Well like I said nursery has flagged up issues and with the reading I have been doing (damn you Dr Google!) many children on the spectrum seem to "meltdown" or become very upset when over stimulated, also they have difficulty dropping off to sleep and waking up very early. He does have issues with sleep, but not meltdowns - he is pushing the boundaries and getting a bit naughty then bawling when he cant have his way. I guess I had lumped all this is with the issues nursery had flagged but reading some other posts it seems like he might be doing exactly what every other 2 year old is doing! I'm just struggling a bit with him at the mo I guess :S

Toddlers are incredibly willfull! If I told you all the naughty things mine has done already today (and it's still only 9:30!) you would be shocked. It is very normal to push boundaries and to get very frustrated and angry at this age. My oldest was very hard work until about 3 1/2. My middle child was less inclined to push boundaries but did display a few traits common to autistic children. These have all passed now. The youngest recently turned two and is a major handful (but very charming and sweet imbetween bouts of stroppiness). I'm optimistic that the sweetness will outweigh the tantrums over time .
What sort of things is your son doing?

How many months is he? At 2 my 'darling' was a little angel - at 2.5 she's getting quite interesting! She gets overstimulated and struggles to nap, she has the odd meltdown for absolutely no reason at all (and I mean hand wringing, screeching, sounds like she might be sick meltdowns), refuses to listen to anything we say, seems to live in a little dreamworld half the time, wants to do what she wants to do...

Nursery shouldn't be flagging autism markers at 2yo because it's too difficult to tell at this age. Please don't worry.

Again 2 is a very common age for sleep issues to either start or resurface, it's all part of development, increasing independence, pushing boundaries etc.

This is a good site:
www.ahaparenting.com/ages-stages/toddlers

Thanks both. Well he has an instant reaction to NO of tears and has started to throw himself down on the floor, he is very strong for his age and will try to wrestle with you if you pick him up and take him away from a situation. I guess what I am describing is not that extreme, its just such a marked difference to how he was a month or two ago. he also started nursery in Feb this year so I guess he might be picking up from other children how to get something done :D

I don't know much about autism but It does sound exactly right for a 2 year old. When my DS was just 2 we actually flew home early from our holiday because his behaviour was so horrendous. He would bite us, tantrum for hours, beat his head against the wall... It was quite a shock when it started but you quickly find mechanisms for dealing with it and life gets easier.
He is now a lovely 3 year old

Wow - thanks all! I'm pretty isolated where I live, I work full time and I dont really know any other mums. Its hard to know what is normal.

He is 2yrs 2 m

He doesnt speak, just makes noises (thats the biggest flag). So I guess he gets frustrated at times. He seems to have discovered screaming? Nursery asked me to come a week or so ago as he had got himself upset with a member of staff and was screaming at her, then the other night when i put him to bed he really screamed at me when I tried to leave. Never really been a screamer before.

Meltdowns when over stimulated are very common. Lots of children this age rev up and become more hyper when over stimulated rather than seeming sleepy. Early waking is common too. They are on an immense learning curve and as soon as they wake up they are full of ideas. They can't really articulate themselves well which is hugely frustrating and because they are attempting to absorb so much information it is easy for them to get a massive sensory overload and become a bit hysterical.

It's enormously hard with the first child but once you have seen one pass through this it is easier to develop a sense of humour. My middle child (who was actually the least tantrummy) could not bear supermarkets. Too many people, too many things. Just too much! He would lie on the floor and HOWL as soon as we went in. With my first I would have been mortified, but second time round I was able to laugh it off, joke with him, take photos to send DH and shrug off the stares of other shoppers (and ultimately do most of my shopping online).

It's more that their brain is only just beginning to process emotions. Up until now they've been pretty passive and their emotional state was quite immature, pretty much happiness and fear. Now they are starting to experience other feelings too, sadness, anger, frustration, confusion, they are starting to realise that they can communicate but may not be able to do so very effectively, they now understand that you are a separate person but still don't really get what that means so they think that you can read their mind and don't understand when you don't. They're starting to realise that there are a lot of different options which might be available rather than just the thing in front of them right now and that's confusing and overwhelming, they want the green plate, but no perhaps the red plate is better, they meant yellow but got the words mixed up, now it's all too much and they can't handle it.

Try not to think of tantrums as naughtiness but more of an overwhelming feeling. It is hard to hear "no" especially if you've said yes before and they don't understand that this time is different. It can help to explain, but don't go into long waffly explanations, just keep it short. Or do a "delayed yes" like "We can go to the park after lunch. Right now we're having breakfast and then we need to go to the post office".

They have hormone surges a bit like teenagers, they want to be independent but they don't really understand moderation so they try to be independent about everything. They're not that co-ordinated yet so things they want to do, they can't do and that's frustrating. Adults and older children can handle emotions better because we've experienced them a lot of times before and we can put them into context, but toddlers can't because they have a poor sense of time (at two, only "right now". By four you get "this day" and "before this day". They're about five and a half by the time they can really anticipate something in the future.) They can't imagine how they will feel later, which is why everything is "my favourite" or "I hate dis" (including mum + dad!) Anything bad is the worst thing ever, anything fun or good is the most hilarious thing ever.

Toddlers are awesome but you need to try and look at things from their point of view, or they are just frustrating and difficult.

It's not outside the realms of normal to not be speaking yet but mention it to your health visitor as they may refer you to a speech therapist. Screaming is unfortunately quite common in non-speakers as they learn it's a very quick and effective way to get attention and/or communicate "I don't like this situation" which they are struggling to communicate in other ways.

Does he point? Use any baby signs? Do his sounds mean anything in particular or are they still just baby babble?

Thank you It actually sounds like I'm not having such challenging behaviour as other toddler mums!

He typically is very good when we are out, these tantrums are mainly at home.

I have been having a row with his nursery as they had kept him back with the babies until I complained. Now he is with his peers of the same age and older he is learning lots of positive stuff but maybe picking up the emotional stuff too!

I hadn't thought of that - maybe he wasn't doing it before because he didnt know he could. Cheeky.

He's exactly the same age as my toddler who us barely talking. Middle child was really late to talk - and quite suddenly started talking with a really wide vocabulary aged 3.
Not talking could be making him more frustrated. You could check his hearing. Does he seem to understand you? Mine can follow sequences of instruction when she chooses to, so I know hearing isn't an issue. She was doing the screaming thing a lot a couple of months ago. Often when we were in the car. Stuck in traffic with a screaming toddler. Utter torture. Mostly I ignored it and it seems to have passed. But today she has slapped me across the face (when I told her off for drawing on the wall). I haven't do e the naughty step with her yet but I think it may be time to introduce it.

Yes we have seen a speech therapist for an early observation and waiting for the therapist at our new surgery (we just moved) to get in contact so we can set up some regular appts. Also waiting for an appointment with the Pediatrician just to discuss his development.

He did say baby, dad, etc not many words but now he seems not to. Never said Mum apart from the sound - sometimes when he is upset and comes to me he says Muuuuaaaa but no recognisable words. Sometimes we hear him say things that sound like words but we tend to accept that they are probably not now.

He does point sometimes but not all the time, however he does gesture and reach for things and he does bring you things like cups if he wants a drink, or a packet/bowl if he is hungry. Something isnt quite right I will agree - but I am not convinced that nursery quite have it right.

I wish I could give all of you a massive hug just for listening to me. Thank you x

so much wisdom in that post! thank you x

My toddler has only just started to say mummy in the last few weeks. It sounds like her speech isn't that different to your son's.

Does she say any other words WildCherryBlossom?

The nursery sound quite concerning TBH. Totally not fair to keep him back with the babies!

She is just starting to. But most of the time she babbles nonsensically. And gets pretty irate when you don't understand her. She has worked out some ways to ensure her needs are met eg getting her cup or plate and plonking it in front of me if thirst or hungry. (She has actually worked out how to say 'dink' when thirsty - but only just).

I know? I said to them regardless of him having developmental issues or speech issues, children have to learn or model behaviour from other and older children. They finally conceded and he now spends the majority of his time with the older group. There has definitely been more noise, more independence and more signs he has been with them. Now absolutely insists on feeding himself with the spoon, was not bothered before, loves sand and water play, tries to dress and undress himself. Obviously things he has seen in the older group.

I met a couple with a child the same age a few days ago. They seemed pretty shocked by how little she speaks compared to their son. But as my middle child was even later, I am not concerned yet.

aw love that! I had a doll called Dink when I was tiny :)

I get the shocked reaction a lot - especially as he is big for his age too. Or people think he is rude for not responding.

Ah yes - it was some blessing that my middle child was very small for his age! But my eldest was v v big, and articulate v early which also drew raised eyebrows when she looked 3 but threw a crazy wobbler like a 2 year old.