concerns about MY behaviour and development

[whathaveibecome]

NC but regular here. This might be long so apologies in advance and please be gentle with me.
prior to being a mum i was a pretty placid person generally. I was no saint and could get seriously pissed off about things but i think in my whole life i must have shouted at someone about twice. Maybe three times?

Ds was born nearly three years ago. Really bad PND which had very intense treatment from psychiatrists etc and I got better quite quickly with medication etc. Afterthat all was fine. But since ds reached the terribke twos I feel I am losing it more and more. I am so irritable, so shouty, and I hate it. When he's in full tantrum i just can't cope. I yell at him and handle him quite roughly ( e.g. trying to strap him in pushchair). A few weeks ago i smacked him on the bottom - something i never, ever thought i would do. Today he has been tantrumming all day because he was clearly exhausted but absolutely refuses to nap. Twice i just had to walk out of the room and scream, slamming the door. I just said 'oh fuck off!' to him/myself when he was thrashing around refusing a nappy, which i think is totally unacceptable thing to say to a child. Sometimes i feel so angry i have mental images of really hurting him and it terrifies me. I'm pregnant again and really scared that this screaming banshee behaviour is going to get worse.
Please don't respond just to tell me what a terrible person i am. I know this behaviour is totally unacceptable and i can't believe this is me. I should say i do really love him and most of the time things are fine. I'm not constantly like this, but when it happens it's awful. I don't know what damage i might do to his development and can't bear the idea of him growing up to suffer the depression and selfloathing i feel because of bad parenting. Can anybody help?

Hi there,
I didn't want to read and run.
I know how you feel with a 2yo, some days are really hard.
The fact that you realise yourself that you're not maybe coping all that well is a good thing. I think you should speak to your GP or midwife about how you're feeling and coping with everything.
You should maybe consider some counselling to help you reflect on your reactions/behaviour and have someone else help guide you in altering it.
It's really important that you get help with this because, as you say, you are modelling behaviour to your child and this could become a vicious circle for you both and have an effect in your relationship.

I really do hope you seek some help with this for both your sakes.

Thanks for responding linadee. I want to get help but i don't know what or where. I am on the mental health at-risk register with currebt pregnancy so might be able to access a counsellor through that but i feel like this is just me beong a shit mummy rather tham a mental health thing. Although it's definitely worse when I'm stressed or feeling down. And I'm afraid to tell anyone in RL in case they take him away or something. I know that wouldn't happen just because i shout at him but I'm hardly going to tell the health visitor that sometimes i want to punch him in the face. God I'm a terrible person. Maybe they should take him away. I just eish i knew how other people cope when toddler is pushing you to the limit.

You might have antenatal depression- it's not as well known as pnd but certainly experienced by some. In which case, some of the same medications/ talking treatments might help again?
But do talk as openly and honestly as u can to people in real life. Your wee boy deserves u to be the best mum u can be, and u, too, deserve best possible.

Right, this is kind of the blind leading the blind but...

Try try try to get decent sleep- even if that means shortening your evening and going to bed early. Try and eat healthy and drink lots of water. Exercise and find time to spend good quality regular time away from dc - not talking spa breaks, just coffee and a magazine for an hour or so.

That's the first step. Second is to try and fake it. Seriously. Act as if super nanny were in the room.

I'm smack bang in the middle of a vile phase (me, not dc) and need to take my own advice. The things that help me are : structure, company and dh. Today was better because I had planned stuff, the people I chose to meet were great and dh texted me to say he has a later start tomorrow so I can get a lie in. Small things but it all counts.

You may very well not need specialist help ( although I'm not counselling you against it as I don't know your individual circumstances )but judging by lots of the conversations I've had with other parents, we're not alone. It's normal, it not insurmountable and it will get better.

Thanks both for your responses, really helpful. To be honest chai, i think i am quite depressed but i don't want to take the medications while pregnant so i feel stuck. I guess i should try to find out more
mrtumble, thanks for sharing the pain. I am totally up for the pretend supernanny idea (I've seen loads of people on here do that!) But i am genuinely clueless as to what i would do if i was doing it 'right'. I can't see how putting a toddler on th naughty step will help if he's screaming from tiredness. When i think about it actually, both of us have been behaving like this since he suddenly stopped napping. Nothing i do willl make him nap, even though he's clearly exhausted and KNOWS he's exhaustes, and SAYS that he's exhausted. Although childminder says he still naps at her house for an hour or more every day, no problem.
Aaaaaaaagh.

I don't know if it is storing up trouble but we do a lot of tiptoeing round tantrums trying to head off the trouble spots. (2.2yr old here) ie if we r both knackered I put her fave tv on, and make myself tea, and we sit cuddling for as long as it takes for me to recharge enough to pick the next battle! It means some days we watch more tv than I would ideally like, but I am not perfect and it is better than me getting exasperated and shouting! So I would say pick battles, lower standards, call in all childcare help and in the head space that gives u form a plan for tackling the big black dog (depression)

More tv might be a really good idea. We don't actually have a tv (ours broke about two years ago and as we only ever seem to watch box sets it wasn't worth replacing). So at the moment we never have tv as a backup but I'm thinking it might finally be time to invest in one again. Good idea.

Take a look at another thread on here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me?reverse=1

Dude, seriously get a tv ASAP. You can probably get an old fashioned one from free cycle, I see them there regularly. A couple of hours of cbeebies every afternoon with a blanket on the sofa and a bottle of milk has got to be better than everyone losing the plot because toddlers are so horrible when they are tired.

Also go to the gp if getting a break doesn't help, because antenatal depression is a thing, and is more likely after postnatal, and the level of stress it can cause is more risky than the drugs they give you to treat it. I took the meds and ds2 is fine and dandy.

I recently had some counselling for similar issues and it has been really helpful. It wasn't NHS - I'd had very bad experiences with NHS mental health services - but wasn't too expensive and I could choose someone I felt comfortable with.

I've had this, not the depression but the terrible rage and unacceptable reactions when I used to be a calm person. I think I'm quite a slave to self-pity and when my ds kick off and scream again and again it just feels so thankless and unfair. I am definitely getting better - although sometimes we have bad days, they are much less frequent now.

What really helped me was to separate the anger I felt from my reaction to it. As the pp said, basically, fake it til you feel it. I gave myself permission to feel all the rage and frustration, but I took control of how I acted on that feeling and instead of shouting I would just disengage from the situation and walk away quietly. It almost felt like I was treating myself to a few seconds on my own to calm down enough to deal with things. The key is to recognise when your feelings are getting out of control - then make sure your child is safe, go into a different room and shut the door, so that even if they're still screaming outside you know you at least have some guaranteed physical separation for a few seconds. Take some deep breaths, make sure you know how you're going to deal with the situation, and go back out. That way you are able to control your behaviour even if you cannot control your feelings.

One other trick is to deliberately make your voice quieter, rather than louder, the more annoyed you get. This has the double bonus of stopping you shouting and (sometimes) making them stop screaming too so they can hear what you're saying.

If it helps I have a stroppy 3 year old and a mischevious 1 year old. I was dreading ds2 arriving because I had no idea how I would have the energy to deal with tantrums with a baby in tow. In fact it was fine - babies are a great distraction, for parents and older siblings alike. In the meantime I second the recommendation to look after yourself, get enough sleep and rely on everyone you can for help.

I'm just reading "peaceful parents, happy kids", after seeing it recommended on a different thread, and you might find that helpful. It is about fostering empathy and connection as a way to better behaviour - essentially rather than let anger take over and seeing them as the enemy (in the heat of the moment) you try to remember they are little people learning about the world and their emotions. It advocates time-in rather than time-out and setting firm limits with empathy. There is a lot in there and it is hard to explain but you might find it helpful in setting up both a new mindset and new way for handling challenging situations. There is a section in there on anger management but I suspect it may be easier to deal with that side of things with some RL help not just from a book. Some of the suggestions above loom good on that.

mandbaby - thanks, will check out that link right now.
asleeponasunbeam - can you tell me a bit more about the counselling you did and how it helped? I've had lots of counselling/therapy over the years, some more helpful than others, but I can't see how it would help with this kind of anger control. I also had bad experiences with NHS mental health services so I'm wary of getting them involved again if it's not even going to help much. On the other hand, if there's something out there that really would help, I'd go for it in an instant.
anicesitdownandacuppa - I wish I could do that effectively. I try so hard, I really do. I walk away and go in another room and calm down, but as soon as I get back to him I'm in a rage again. I guess because I can't figure out how to deal with the actual problem so we just go round in circles. I also try to think about the rage as "just a feeling" and distance myself from it etc. Ironically, it was one of the occasions when I first tried doing this that I actually smacked him. I think part of the problem is that because I'm generally pretty patient I seem to suddenly snap because of the cumulative effect of a days' worth of shitty behaviour, rather than unleashing a little bit of Cross Mummy with each minor incident. I will keep trying these things you suggest but I find it so hard.
biscuitless - I'll have a look at the book you suggest. I've read a few like that and they generally just make me feel guilty. "Toddlercalm" is the biggest load of shite I've ever read - all about how if basically you were just a nicer person your kid would never have a tantrum. Great message.
I realise I've been a bit negative about everyone's suggestions but I am really grateful for them and will do my best to follow them. I'm just in the bottom of such a pit at the moment it doesn't feel like anything can help. Yesterday was so awful I am now thinking about aborting DC2 because I just don't see how I can possibly cope with 2 when I can't even manage one.

I'm no expert but I think you do need to seek some RL help - it sounds like there is more going on than the usual shouty parenting we're all guilty of at the end of a bad day. Please get some support and help for yourself.

In the meantime any chance you can try to turn it around in your head and see the tantrums as funny? Toddlers do look fairly ridiculous when they're yelling and foaming at the mouth because their favourite t-shirt is in the wash. An askance look and "gosh, what extraordinary behaviour, don't you look silly", then carrying on with what you're doing might diffuse things, in your head at least.

Posted too soon. Meant to say that the situation you're in, with one shouty toddler and another baby on the way, is incredibly hard. Nobody would find that easy, so cut yourself some slack. And do get some help.

Op you've had some great advice which I can't really add to. Just to say that I am fit and mentally healthy but I too have said and done things in the heat of the moment that I am not proud of. While I have never smacked, I have shouted and been too forceful with my ds, especially since he turned 3. It is a very good sign indeed that you recognise it in yourself, so please take something from that and be kinder to yourself. If I am on my own with ds I have learned to walk away for 5 mins. It's also important to me that I say sorry to ds is I shout so that he knows it's not good behaviour, in anybody - even us parents! If dh is around he has learned to recognise when I am struggling and will step in using a good deal more patience than I can muster at that point. He knows it doesn't happen often with me as I am usually patient, gentle and understanding. But is is important to have those trusted people around you in RL to help share and deal with the pressure. Is there anyone like that in your life? Good luck and please don't imagine you're on your own or a bad parent.

Hey, you sound like you are being hard on yourself. You are managing the frustration of a toddler quite well - you walk out and scream, you are using words rather than getting physical.

Obviously, try not to swear again.

My 5 year old goes completely over the top when she hurts herself a tiny bit. She screams blue murder at the top of her voice, its awful, gives me such a fright and enrages me as she is so OTT (I wouldn't mind if she had done herself a massive injury but its when she has just bumped her arm on a chair!). When she does it my first response is fury and I really feel like slapping her. I would never do it and I swallow my fury and try to be sympathetic. After all she may have a low pain threshold and it may really hurt, how do I know. But I get the rage and violent feelings when I hear that blood curling scream and yet I know nothing is seriously wrong!

This is your first toddler so it is a steep learning curve. You can learn to manage your annoyance better, and it is worth trying hard at it as nothing ups the ante more with a toddler than the parent radiating annoyance and frustration.

Im on my second toddler now and am much better at taking a deep breath and the more he shouts, the quieter and calmer and more gentle I try to become. There is an element of faking it till you make it, but it does work.

Try also keep in mind that a toddler can't deal with his own very strong feelings. They project them out onto us, so no wonder that a toddler can make you feel levels of frustration and rage you hadn't thought possible! He is literally passing his own angry and frustrating feelings on to you. Try to imagine lifting all those feelings out of him, and processing them in your adult "feeling processing factory" and them coming out at the end of the production line as something more manageable and socially acceptable! When he sees you doing this, he will learn and one day (far far away!) he will perhaps be able to do it himself, bless him!

And breathe. I find "silent screaming" quite helpful. I go into the utility room and silently scream my head off while jumping up and down. Very calming.

Another thing is if he's really letting rip, get him out in the buggy and walk. The screaming seems far less intense in the open air than out of the house, and if he's exhausted he may eventually sleep. Out of the house, you're part of a bigger world: not just you and him.
My youngest was awful at that age but it does pass. He's lovely now.

PS - the other awful thing with toddlers is that if they scream and are awful you feel rubbish too as you think its because they are so unhappy with you or that you are a rubbish parent.

Wrong though, they are just little people who can't handle some very big feelings and need us to help them with that.

Thanks everyone, you're all being so great. I am going to start again and try harder. And if in the next 3 months I find I am still losing it then I will talk to the mental health team about medication/counselling. I know I would do better if I was feeling better in myself, but that's not an excuse for being a bitch.
Anicesitdownandacuppa - highlight of my day yesterday was his tantrum in the bath, which made me laugh. He didn't want to get in/ be washed/etc and was screwing up his face and wagging his finger at me saying "Mummy, no!" in a spot-on impersonation of me. It was VERY funny and I had to turn away so he wouldn't see me laughing at his anger. But kind of heartbreaking too, to see him reflect my behaviour so accurately, as it shows he clearly absorbs every detail. Which is why, apart from wagging my finger and saying "No!" in a serious voice, I have to get a grip on myself before he imitates anything else. (He also said yesterday, "Does Mummy want to go in the kitchen and say [rolls eyes and sighs loudly in exasperation] 'oh GOD!'?"
Bumpsadaisy good point about him basically casting his tantrum onto me. It's like witchcraft. I am totally feeling the same thing as him. Unfortunately I don't seem to have progressed much beyond his level of coping with things.
I will do better.
Thanks again everyone, you've been very helpful and kind.

You sound like you have a lot of insight into what's going on, OP. Good luck.

PS when we have toddlers I think it really reawakens our own experiences as toddlers. I think people whose own parents were able to remain calm and adult find it easier to have those kinds of resources to draw on when they have their own toddlers, as they have already internalised that "model". If your own parents got enraged with you, you will probably feel the same with your toddler as that is how you have learned to deal with frustration.

Nothing's set in stone though, we can all learn more about how to manage things better provided that we at least have some insight into what is going on currently. And that sort of personal development ultimately makes for enrichment in life.

I get the rage too.
I never used to get the rage. DS has just turned 2 and the other day I held him down with an arm across his chest to put his nappy on. He was screaming so much I felt awful but I just saw red. I also have these visions of flinging him down the stairs sometimes.
If I had a pound for each time I feel like screaming "fine, just fuck off then" I'd be rich. I haven't said it yet, but that doesn't mean I won't :(( Am 25 wks pg with DC2 and am terrified of how the rage will multiply when the baby comes along.
Just to say that the rage doesn't make you a bad person. it's how we all cope with it that's the tricky part.
Hope you feel better and get some help soon either from this thread or GPs etc.

flipflop ... do you think you will BF your new baby? I found I was zen with my toddler when bfing my newborn - oxytocin!

Bumpsadaisie - I hope so, I bfed DS until he was 18mo. I've chatted to my mum about The Rage - to be honest I get it more around kit malfunction, mostly travel cots, buggy wheels getting stuck on the pavement, carseat buckles not clasping... - and she said that when my brother was born and I was 2.4yo she just completely zenned out. She gave into the chaos and 'accepted' the reality of her fate and never had The Rage again!

That's what I'm hoping will happen. A bit like the faking it tactic - just sit back, and let it wash over you...