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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Am I wrong in wanting to punish him twice?

30 replies

windypops · 31/03/2004 14:45

Need some much needed advice. Basically my son starts school in September and has recently been playing up at pre-school (not listening, running about and causing trouble) he has been put on assessment. I obviously want to stamp this out before school. I think the pre-school are being too soft on him and have told them they need to be firmed and given them examples on how to do this. the thing is his behaviour is fine at home and everywhere else, its just the pre-school where he has the problems. The thing is I asked to be informed on a daily basis of how he has been, and they advised that were not that happy in discussing it with the child around, and also if he was naughty at pre-school I was going to not let him watch his bedtime video, this was also met with uncertainty as they said it was like punishing him twice. Any advice qould be appreciated.

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motherinferior · 31/03/2004 14:48

Without knowing more about it, I wouldn't want to punish twice.

mummysurfer · 31/03/2004 14:49

no pinishing twice isn't a good idea IMO however, rwrding twice is fine ..if he's been good at p-s then a star or some time doing something special will reinforce the desired behviour

mummysurfer · 31/03/2004 14:49

well hopefully

roisin · 31/03/2004 14:57

In general I wouldn't want to punish twice. Also with a child this age any punishment (or withdrawal of privileges) is best administered immediately after the event.

Original poster

windypops · 31/03/2004 15:07

Sorry I was not too clear about his actions. he has started being quite naughty, running about, wont sit down, at register runs about and not listens to any command etc etc. I have repeatedly told them to be firm, which I know they are not really doing. I just wanted to try anything to help.

Advice very much appreciated.

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roisin · 31/03/2004 15:50

How old is he windypops? How much is he at pre-school?

DS1 was a bit daft at times before he started school. But once at school they were very firm and strict, so there was just no option for him but to sit down on the carpet quickly and silently for registration. Some boys this age do benefit from very clear boundaries, and some pre-schools don't give them, (because they are catering for much younger children as well).

Btw, what does 'put on assessment' mean?

aloha · 31/03/2004 19:32

It seems to me that running about is normal and healthy behaviour for a little boy and maybe THEY need to chill out. He doesn't HAVE to be there. Actually I think running about is better for him than sitting about. I think it sounds frighteningly strict for a nursery and - I think - not very nice. I wouldn't want someone bullying me into punishing my son for what is, IMO, perfectly normal behaviour for a child. Obviously I don't know the whole story from your post, but it's not like he's attacking other kids or biting or anything. I think they should give your baby a break.

MrsGrump · 31/03/2004 19:45

There's a gang of boys at DS's playgroup who would run around amock and wild. The staff have to be on their case constantly, so I wonder if Windypops' boy is all that unusual. One of the staff was saying to me that they get this behaviour every year, this time of year, from the oldest boys, as they get to be that bit older and outgrowing playgroup. DS's playgroup staff do seem pretty strict and are constantly on the gang of boys, but I would wonder, too, if it might be better to try something different to stamp it out other than extra punishment (sadly doesn't work with my DS, either). More exercise (long walks to playground, etc.?) in the afternoons so he isn't so fresh in the mornings?! Just an idea.

I watched a pair of 10-11 yr old boys "fake fighting" in the park for an hour this afternoon; they were apparently best mates and happily enjoying pretending to beat each other senseless. It was really weird, but maybe that's boys for you?!

kiwisbird · 31/03/2004 19:48

Maybe a little young, better to offer an incentive if he does behave
My son went through bad patch at school aged 8 and we withdrew the PS2 for one month until his work picked up, this worked big time and he now uses his leisure time more sensibly.
HTH

frogs · 31/03/2004 19:55

Actually I think for this I would put my rubbish mother hat on and treat it as the school's problem, assuming he's ok at home.

Both my older two started playing up at their (different) nurseries when they reached the top of the nursery's age range -- I think they just get bored and start flexing their muscles. At school they'll be the littlest again and it will all be new and different, so don't assume bad behaviour at nursery will carry over into proper school.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about this (and I'm the one who's just outed herself as a Demon Parenting Nazi on the table manners thread)...

Jimjams · 31/03/2004 19:59

I made a comment to ds1s teacher the other day about ds2 being a nightmare when he starts school (he's only 2 now but he's a menace) and she said "oh no they're always good as gold when they get to school". So I agree with frogs.

sis · 31/03/2004 20:19

Aloha, I don't think pre-school are 'bullying' windypops into punishing her son - on the contrary, they are conceerned that if she punishes him then it would be like he was being punished twice and I agree with them. I also agree with them about not discussing his behaviour on a daily basis in his earshot as it would be giving his 'bad behaviour' more attention whilst the 'well behaved' children did not get any attention.

Blu · 31/03/2004 20:47

Windypops, I must say I agree with the general approach of Aloha's response, and I wonder why he is being unsettled: could it be natural energy, and the rhythm / length of sit-down activities are not suiting his needs or attention span? Could he be bored because he is repeating activities, needs more variety or is finding the tasks unchallenging? Does he get excited by his friends? What does he tell you about what he does - does he seem to enjoy himself and look forward to going? Could he perhaps be re-acting to a firm approach at home by letting off steam at nursery?

I think Frogs comments ring very true, too.
(Frog re DPN)

hercules · 31/03/2004 20:49

Sounds like he's outgrown it and is bored.

aloha · 31/03/2004 21:08

sis, you are right. I misread windypop's post. I still think they are being mean though. After all, if my little boy was in a place where running about was seen as naughty, I'd get him out asap. Running about is normal, natural and healthy and why shouldn't he?

stupidgirl · 31/03/2004 21:19

I agree with Aloha's post. Ds was like this at playgroup. He didn't start until he was 4, and then only went 2 mornings a week. But he wouldn't sit for stories or join in with the singing, anything like that. He didn't run round so much (the group was held in a tiny prefab hut, so not much chance for running), but flitted from one thing to the next, and wouldn't join in unless he wanted to. I was fine with that. He was asserting himself, and I felt he had every right to do that. He went because he wanted to go, not because he needed to, so why make him do what he didn't want to do? I agreed with the playgroup that if he wouldn't sit quietly for the story (he wanted to carry on with whatever he was playing with) then he would be taken out of the room, so he spent the last 10 or 15 minutes of each session sat in the cloakroom on his own (with an assistant with him or in the kitchen right beside him) and he was fine with that. He understood and accepted that, and would sit quite happily out of the room!

Admittedly we never discovered what he would have been like in school because he doesn't go (we HE), but I suspect he would have found it hard (he has aspergers).

What I think I am trying to say is that I wouldn't be too hard on your ds. Let him relax while he can, when he's in school he won't have the opportunity.

toddlerbob · 31/03/2004 21:39

If he's fine at home it's the preschool's problem. He's acting up there because they are softer on him, or because he is bored. Running about is normal behaviour for a 4 year old and I can't imagine why you can put a 4 yo on "assessment" for being normal.

WideWebWitch · 31/03/2004 21:39

I wouldn't punish him twice, nor would I discuss him negatively in his hearing. I think he sounds normal and bored and ready for school/the school holidays. Esp if he's fine everywhere else - sounds as if he's outgrown the pre-school. He needs more exercise by the sound of it, Coddy (and Christopher Green IIRC) often says boys are like dogs and she's right, they need to let off steam.

Original poster

windypops · 31/03/2004 22:08

Thanks for all your comments.

It is not just the running about, it also the noises he makes like he is a robot or something and when they try to talk to him he jumps up and makes noises. He is 4.5. He does these noises at home while playing,and wont sit still long for story time or when having drinks, he bangs book on table or keep tipping his chair up etc etc, he doesn't show any of the pre-school behaviour outside of it on any level.

Also found out today that when he runs about at story time they are saying, would you like to sit down?, rather than sit down, so of course its to him NO I dont want to sit down. I have had positive feedback today about how he settled down second half when they are doing more activities and hope that he is just bored and settled down at school. i think he also gets easily distracted when the younger kids are running about and want to join in.

Him being on assessment means that the head psych comes in every now and again to monitor him and I get behavioural reports on him, and most of them I feel could have been stopped if they were firmer with him. Hopefully the chat I had today will sort that out.

I wont be punishing him at home, thanks for your advice, its just you go to the pre-school and some times its once things after another and of course I am willing to try anything for him to settle.

OP posts:

stupidgirl · 31/03/2004 22:16

From what you've described it does sound to me very much like he's bored - especially if he only behaves that way in nursery. Do you know what activites they have geared specifically to his age group? Surely they should be catering to his needs as well as just the younger ones?

FairyMum · 01/04/2004 07:08

I think you should let the pre-school staff deal with this as it's difficult for you when you haven't been there. You could of course talk to him about it and see how he really feel about being there. LIke stupidgirl says, it could be that he needs more stimulation. I would ask to discuss this with the staff, but perhaps an evening when your son is not there? I think it should be discussed behind his back, because focusing too much on his problems could just make him feel like the bad boy and it's possible that he will take this role on going to school too.

FairyMum · 01/04/2004 07:11

Running around isn't a problem in itself of course, but I do think that at the stage he is at the moment, it is important for him to be able to do sit still and listen to stories etc and also listen when staff tells him to sit down. Otherwise he might get more problems at school when it's a lot of sitting-at-you-desk compared to pre-school/nursery.

robinw · 01/04/2004 07:48

message withdrawn

spacemonkey · 01/04/2004 08:22

It makes me shudder to think that the school are putting your son under psychological assessment for what sounds to me like normal behaviour. He is bored, he's outgrown pre-school - I think it's VERY likely that he will be a different boy when he starts school.

Maybe I'm too laisser faire but I would just leave the pre-school to deal with it and see what happens in September. It's not as if he's hitting other children or anything really bad!

Original poster

windypops · 01/04/2004 08:37

I just hope that it gets sorted soon as it is starting to make me go nuts and I analizing everything the poor mite does, although I do keep this to myself.

He has hit other children, but pre-school say no more that any other child and when its done its not malice more retaliation.

He will be walking to school in September, its 2 doors up

I have taken a lot from what people have said and think a lot of it has been blown out of proportion, but I will monitor it and have talks with him.

Thanks

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