my parnter gives in to bad behaviour... any advice?

[superdad44]

Hi, I'm new on here and signed up specifically for this question. Firstly I am a 29yr old male & I have an 8yr old son from a previous relationship. My partner is 20 and has a 2yr old boy. Her son is lovely & she is a good mum in that she loves him so much and always puts him first. This is not a dig or a rant at/about her but I need some real advice because the issue is having an affect on the relationship. I have never been in a relationship with anyone younger than me so its a bit of a culture shock and I wonder sometimes if its lack of experience more than anything.
My partner will always choose the easiest parenting option that produces the least amount of hassle rather than 'the best option' for the child and I feel it is having a negative effect. She complains that he cries all the time (which he does) but she will not take on board any of my advice. I am not suggesting that I am an expert but I have been there with my own son and the methods my ex and I used worked! To give you an example of a situation that has just happened. We got a rabbit a few days ago and I'm building a run, it was unfinished and a bit unstable and the 2yr old started jumping on it and swinging it. I asked him not to, he ignored me. His mum asked him not to, he ignored her, she asked him several times before having to physically remove him from it. He then started to scream. After a couple of minutes of screaming he started screaming that he wanted the rabbbit out. I was half way through saying something like "im afraid the rabbit can't come out until you can behave a bit better" but before I finished my partner got the rabbit out for him. I felt quite frustrated so I walked away and whilst inside the house I heard her telling him off for something (i don't know what) and she was telling him to go on the time out step. He ignored her. After a couple of minutes I came outside and said "im thought you put him on the step" she said "yeah" so I said "so why isn't he on it" and she just shrugged it off.
This kind of thing happens all the time and consequently her son will cry for something rather than ask for it. It's not as if he is incapable either because I behave with him as I do with my own & I don't give in to bad behaviour. With me, his behaviour is a million times better. He will ask for what he wants, say please and thankyou etc & if he behaves badly he doesn't get it so he has learnt very quickly to behave.
She has even said to me on numerous occasions "you are so good with him, you always get him to behave" yet she seems unwilling to actually try my methods. The irony is that she is frustrated by his constant screaming & if she put a little bit of hard work in her life would be easier in the long run.
I have tried talking to her about it but I don't want to come across as being critical so its difficult. Any advise on how I go about it?
I'm not some kind of hard line parent, I simply believe in rewarding good behaviour rather than bad and it actually works!

Can you buy a parenting book (with methods you agree with) and suggest that you read it together?

Well I tried looking up some info from sites like this with her but she thinks this kind of thing is a load of rubbish... Tbh I don't think she does I just think she's not prepared to put the effort in but its making her life more difficult!

Could you get her to watch Supernanny? It's quite obvious that consistency is the key from that.

Personally I find it easier to be consistent. It's one decision rather than lots of decisions.

This sounds a bit Machiavellian, but maybe wait until she's had a really bad day & is feeling down on it, exploit the opportunity to have a chat about how, as a family, you should approach a change?

Watching supernanny is actually a really good idea! I can be completely covert about getting the info into her! LOL.... Thanks for your advice so far ;)

We've had a bit of a chat about things this evening & she says that she can't help comforting him when he cries. The trouble is I think his crying is quite manipulative (at the risk of sounding rather stark!). I actually think some of it is to do with his dummy. When we met about 6 months ago he would have his dummy in constantly, one of the first things I noticed about him was that despite being 'bright' and 'intelligent' he seemed to be behind with his speech (something that nursery also picked up on). It was quite difficult so early in the relationship but through subtle hints I was able to limit the use of the dummy & now he just has it at night (though at the end of this month it is d-day - that's dummy-day as he will have it taken off him for good in Exchange for a prize!). Anyway, I think because of his dummy he has been slow to learn & form words & so found it difficult to express his needs & so would cry instead of talking. Over the last few months however his speech has come on leaps and bounds but he still approaches getting what he wants from his mum without even bothering to ask, like crying is the first tool in the box rather than the last & I think its her approach. For instance, I spend a lot of time (and its so repetitive) making sure he asks me for what he wants using the correct words (age appropriate, I'm aware that extensive sentences are a little beyond him just now LOL). Anything at all though, even if I know what he wants I make sure he makes the effort to use the right words, as oppose to pointing and saying 'uuuh' I say "use your words" and he will say "bricks please" or "drink please". Now he will come to me and say things without issue but if his mum is around he will just start screaming and she will immediately run to him saying "oh my word (name) what's wrong?" & cuddle and smother him & say "do you want a drink or cbeebies or a wee wee (or whatever it is)" until he will say "yes" or sometimes even just nod.
I wish I could set a camera up so that she can see how different he is with me. I'm not hard on him, I don't shout at him, we have lots of fun & I love him to bits, I just don't get why she cannot see the light! Her time with him is frought and stressful & it doesn't need to be.
Dinner time is always mental. I don't know about you guys but I was brought up in a family where everyday we sat round the same table and talked & nobody left the table before everyone was finished. Her son will eat so much before deciding he is done and starts playing up. He gets out of his high chair and (honest to god) will WALK across the table. I will tell him to get down but then once down he will be clambering all over his mum, climbing on her knee and sticking his hands in her dinner and she never says a thing to him!
She has to change his clothes 3 or 4 times a day because he won't wear a bib and then she moans about the washing so I say "he is two, it really shouldn't be him making the rules, you should make him wear one". It seems so simple to me & if she is not there, like everything else he will wear a bib because he knows that his dinner or his yoghurt or whatever isn't coming until he does!
If she gives him a yoghurt away from his chair, he won't sit down with it and it gets all over the carpet, curtains and god knows what else. Lately he has taken to smearing foods on the tv. I would love them to move in with me before the end of the year as I own my house and its bigger but I'm terrified. I work hard for the few things I have and I don't want them to be destroyed because she refuses to put the effort in with him.
Don't get me wrong, I know kids are messy & accidents happen and my house is perfectly set up for kids because I have my own but I see how he is with me, I see his potential and for want of a better way to put it I feel like she is holding him back.
I love them both so much & every other aspect of our lives is perfect so leaving her is not an option but we cannot carry on as we are.

You love both of them this much after 6 months?

Could it be her son is acting up due to you being pretty much a stranger and she's reluctant to put in place too many new boundaries when all this is very new to him?

Do you and your new girlfriend of 6 months live together already with both of your children? That's a huge step for such a brief relationship. I'm amazed that you are living together already, and without seemingly agreeing on some very basic parenting methods.

This little boy is trapped in an adult world where the only consistent parent in his life has been his mum. You may not like how she is parenting but surely this is something you should have seen and realised before moving in together and becoming this little boy's new step-dad.

If you and your girlfriend can't agree on basic approaches to behaviour then I would genuinely suggest that you are not suited as a couple. If you believe that you are perfectly suited, then you need to discuss this situation calmly and agree a consistent approach that you both agree on. Of course his mum should comfort him if he cries, but that doesn't have to mean then giving him what he wants. So perhaps you could agree to comfort him, but still say no to his demand.

As a side note, use of time out at 2 yrs old is very likely to be ineffective and counterproductive. It's much better to praise any good behaviour that you see and then distract and remove (without punishment or telling off) from situations that are not going well.

Well I'm reluctant to read the majority of your posts 'thenightisdark' & 'frompentopaper' considering that you haven't read mine properly... I quite clearly stated that I would like them to move in with me, would that not suggest that we currently do not live together?

...and yes, I do love them 'that' much after just six months. Perhaps you have never fallen in love with someone so deeply after such little time, perhaps no one you know has but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen & we are spending time ironing out any issues prior to making that step.
I actually didn't suggest that I use time out, nor that I agree with it either. Time out was mentioned in the sense that I was explaining her inconsistent approach, e.g she asked to have time out but didn't follow up on it. Furthermore I don't agree that a child who is using manipulative crying should be comforted every time they cry, that would feed the problem.
Sorry to sound harsh but please, please read a post and the comments before you answer. I'm quite prepared to accept criticism and some of your points could well be valid but i'll struggle to accept it from someone who hasn't even read everything that was written as that would suggest that you do not have the whole picture.
Thankyou.

Apologies to 'thenightisdark' as you didn't mention the whole living together thing!

Furthermore, she tells me that he has always been 'difficult' & I have already suggested to her that he could be acting up because of me but she says that he hasn't changed at all, this is how he has always been.
He doesn't behave appropriately with her because he doesn't need to, that's the bottom line. He gets what he wants regardless of how he behaves or how he goes about trying to achieve it so he has never learned the techniques appropriate to his age, rather he has remained at a babies stage of crying to achieve his wants & needs. But he doesn't need to do that, he doesn't do that with me because I don't respond to manipulative crying. This proves to me that he is absolutely ready & able to learn 'good behaviour' with his mum.

I just want to point out, some children do cry for what they want, no matter what techniques or disciplines you use. I have one of those and I'm quite strict.

When a baby is little, crying is their only form of communication. It's a bad habit to break and you may find that although he will behave for you, he may still be the same with his mother. It's how she met his needs from day one.

I agree that things need to be tackled, but why are you taking the dummy at night? Is it your or his mums idea? I'm only saying it because DD1 still has one at night. It's a great source of comfort to them, and especially if you are planning on moving them in he may revert back to not sleeping.

I really do think you should think very carefully before moving your relationship any further. If this grates on you now, how are you going to be when she is letting him get away with murder during his teen years?

I agree that these are actually big problems, and its obviously grating on you already.

You seem very clear about parenting techniques - impressively so in fact! I do wonder if this might be making your partner feel a bit rubbish if she's noticed this gap between your skillsets?

It's also alot harder when you're doing it day in day out and on your own, so shes probably exhausted and doing really well in that context. She sounds like she's got quite a different style of parenting, and may actually want to be more relaxed and go with the flow.

You do need to sort this out and I'd maybe start by asking her what she thinks about it all - does she want to change? As if she doesn't, there's no point in pushing her, even if you think it would help her.

Oh and my last thought, the Ds is two yes? I'm not sure why but I feel a bit uncomfortable with the way you keep saying 'manipulative crying', it seems a bit of a harsh way of looking at it.

Yes two year olds are manipulative in that they are learning that they can have some control iver their world by doing certain things, so he gets a certain result by crying, but its not a bad thing at all, as that goes for speaking too, he gets a certain result by saying 'mummy cuddle' or whatever too.

He's very little and just learning how to interact with the world, and a word like manipulative credits him with a bit too much intent, and makes him sound like he's being very naughty, which I don't think he is.

I agree that manipulative is a very strong word but I cant really think of another to use. He is not crying because he is sad or ill or cannot communicate his needs. He is crying, to his mother because he has learned that is the best way to get what he wants.
I do know what its like to be on your own with a child, I have full custody of my own since he was three. His mother left & has cut off all contact.
I've tried to convey all along that I am not a hard line disciplinarian, its just difficult to explain exactly what I mean & the methods I use are appropriate to his age & level. I don't expect miracles or a little angel 100% of the time but I know how well this child can do with the right methods of encouragement. He isn't allowed to behave at nursery the way he does with his mum & consequently he doesn't.
I'm afraid I have no idea what ds & dd are but yes, his mum says that she does want things to change & regards the dummy. It was my idea initially for him to just have it at nightime but the decision to remove it all together is hers off the back of an appointment that was made with a speech & language therapist after a referral made by nursery because he was behind in the development of his language due to constant use of the dummy.
I will take on board some of the points made as there are some angles I haven't thought about this from that have been raised. Maybe I feel so sure of my own methods because they worked so well for me. I find parenting very natural & easy. I have a lot of patience & a fantastic relationship with my son and with my partners son. I do not shout, I do not hit, I listen to them & I encourage positive behaviour and ignore naughty behaviour. On the flip side I will be the first one there for a cuddle when its needed. I try to make everything fun and teach my children about respect for themselves and for others.
I feel a bit like people are getting the impression I run some sort of military regime in terms if parenting and that is not the case. My house is full of laughter & fun (and nerf bullets!)

Oh & my girlfriends son is two & a half now btw

They can be manipulative at that age. My daughters that age and manipulates her dad whilst I am the stricter parent. I always told he is not firm enough and he can now see how her behaviour has worsened. If he and the grandparents had listened to me when she was younger she would not have some of bad habits

DS and DD = dear son and dear daughter. Mumsnet uses a lot of acronyms! There is a list here:
www.mumsnet.com/info/acronyms
that covers most of them.

Your parenting methods sound very similar to mine (DS is nearly 2yo) and I agree that most children at this age are able to learn simple good behaviour given the right 'incentives'. Fortunately my DH (dear husband) and I are on the same page with this. I don't know what to suggest in your situation - does she have any friends/family who might be able to subtly reinforce what you are saying, without making your girlfriend feel 'picked on'? You will definitely need to be sure that you are happy with his behaviours before they move in to your home, because it becomes their home too at that point.

1 she is Mum but you know best, the best thing you can do is help her, not by getting angry when things don't go your way, but understand that it will take time for her to learn these skills.

2 don't make her feel inadequate

3 let her comfort her child, it's what women are programmed to do but try and understand why he is really crying.

4 learn for yourself about child development and what is going through the mind of a child at different stages

Apologies for my inaccuracy - your posts are very long. You probably don't want to hear any of my thoughts as I am not perfect... but I'm going to post them anyway.

It is still very early days in your relationship to be so heavily involved in the parenting of your girlfriend's child. Lots of people with children might not even have introduced them yet to a boyfriend of 6 months. I'm not disputing how much you love her by the way, that's not the issue here. It's about how two adults can get to the point where they both agree (and can actually act) on parenting approaches. This would seem quite important in a long term relationship.

Your best bet is to be very aware not to undermine your GFs confidence, to support her and gently encourage. If she's so bad at parenting it isn't going to change quickly. Don't criticise her, keep positive and keep talking about what works and why.

And the little boy is only 2.5. Manipulative is too strong a word as you've described. As I said in my previous post, of course your GF should comfort him if he's crying. That doesn't mean he then gets what he wants though.

I'm sorry but I think you are way too involved after only 6 months. You shouldn't be telling her how to parent or doing things like interfering in how her son uses comfort items like a dummy. You are a virtual stranger in many ways and he is probably playing up a bit to test our his mum's reactions and your place in all this.

For now I would focus on building a happy relationship with him and let his mum do the parenting even if it's not the way you would do things.

And I say that as someone who is in a blended family myself with a dd aged 11 from a previous relationship and a toddler son with my now dh.

I can completely see why you are feeling frustrated. Life is definitely easier when you give children firm, reasonable boundaries and have high but age appropriate expectations of them.

It is very early days in your relationship. You need to get to know each other a lot better and before you consider become a family unit. Things become a lot more complicated once children are involved and you need to wait until it is right for them too.

Both of your children will be observing your behaviour round each other and be very sensitive to the changes they see. Your own child may feel a bit more secure but would also struggle more with life as a family unit if two very different parenting styles were the norm in one household.

Her DS is probably aware that there is friction between the two of you about his behaviour. He knows you have different expectations of him and children adjust easily to those when on their own with one adult. However, he and his mum are used to doing things one way and he won't make it easy for her to change, especially if he works out that the drive to change is from you, not her.

You need to put all thoughts of living together on a back burner for now and work on building your relationships. Get to know her better. Let her see what works for you and, in time, she will probably decide to try it more herself. Try to understand her drive to comfort him and separate that from giving him what he wants. You can stand firm about a decision and comfort a tantruming child at the same time without undermining yourself. You just have to communicate clearly.

Don't get cross when she 'gives in' to him. It isn't your responsibility to manage their behaviour. If she pushes for you to all spend more time together, be honest. Say that you would love to but don't feel that it would be appropriate until you've developed a joint approach to behaviour management that allows you both to feel comfortable and listened to, by each other and the children.

Take your time. I think you could build a wonderful future together in the long term but it isn't going to happen in weeks or months.

I do my best not to get angry. Frustrated is more the word but like yesterday what I would tend to do is walk away, if I really get to the point that I want to say something in frustration. A lot of people say I'm too laid back (in my personality as oppose to parenting) but I grew up riding bmx so what can I do? Haha... I sometimes wonder if that's part of the issue in itself, that I enjoy and am so used to having that time to think, having a son who is polite, bright & intelligent that when someone disrupts the status quo it frustrates me.
But then I also see my partner and how she seems depressed, anxious, tired, stressed out and constantly on edge waiting for the next episode & I think there is another way, just follow me!
A few people have suggested that its too soon to be this involved etc, well whilst I respect the opinions that you are entitled to have its not relevant. I'm asking for advice regards my partner not for judgement as to what stage we should/should not be at after 6 months. The fact is we are at 'this stage' now & that's not going to change.

We do love each other, we care for one another deeply and as I say this is literally the only issue... But it is a big issue. I have already stated that I'm uncomfortable for them to move in with me any time soon. Thankyou all for your responses anyway. Some food for thought.

In your position I would be careful not to put yourself forward as a perfect parent (a superdad, say), and all your GF has to do is exactly emulate you and all her behavioural woes with her DS will be solved. You're not perfect, no one is. Yes, it sounds like you've done a great job with your son so far. Yes there's probably a lot she can learn from you, but she is her own person and her son is not the same as your son. They need to find their own way of improving their relationship. You can help by encouraging, discussing it with her without it being confrontational, make suggestions, tell her what she is good at with regard to parenting (there must be something?) etc.

What are her parents like? Has she had the benefit of experiencing good parenting from them? How do her friends/relatives deal with their children - is her approach common in her family?

Of course it's relevant that you've only been together 6 months. To be totally honest it sounds like you think your son is perfect and this little toddler is a troublemaker. I don't think you can expect to have any input whatsoever as to your partners parenting at this stage. I think she is just going to end up resenting you for it this early on even if she doesn't say anything as such.

So don't move in together yet. You don't have to.

Ok, before we go on I'd just like to point out that my nickname on here is very much tongue in cheek.
Yes, I do think my son is perfect, I think her son is perfect too & every child on this planet. Some of his behaviour is not & the way he is being raised contributes to this. I do not think that its my way or the high way as some people here seem to think. What I do think is that I have the benefit of experience and methods which are proven both with my son & with hers.
It hasn't always been a bed of roses for me & my son. When his mum moved abroad 'to follow her dreams' rather than be a responsible parent the aftermath was massive. We effectively grieved for a person who is still alive. We do not know where she is or what she is doing, the last I know she was in Cambodia!
I had to quit work at the time & we were skint!
I started a business when he was 5 and it has worked out ok financially. We are ticking over. I suppose in some ways I'm very protective of my son and at the risk of sounding materialistic I'm very protective of what we have. It's taken a long time and a lot of hard work to get to where we are today, I have spent whole nights awake working so that I can be the one to take him to school in the morning and give him his tea & put him to bed at night. I am his mum & his dad & he means the world to me. Without him I would have given up so in a lot of ways I owe my life to him.
Please don't confuse what I'm saying as me being a man who thinks he is perfect and everyone should do this. I'm prepared to listen as I always do and to work with her, not just implement what I think is the right way to do things.
I feel quite a lot like I am being judged for the wrong things here by some people when in fact I'm here to discuss this in a way that benefits all of us that are involved. The very fact that I am on here right now & that I'm even bothering to try to resolve things should say something in itself. Many men would simply walk away & say I don't have to deal with this but I am not 'many men' & walking away is not an option.
Rightly or wrongly we are in the position we are in after 'just' 6 months. I do not feel it would be right to back away now and neither of us want that. That is why I said the length of time is irrelevant. Her son is 2.5 now & this is a key age for learning about behaviour, get it wrong now and you'll struggle for a long time. My partner does want to change, does want to take a similar approach to me but when it comes to the crunch she struggles to implement it.
What I.wanted to know was if anyone had any advice on how I approach her & discuss it with her, listen to her and help her achieve what she wants to achieve in a non critical way, one where I don't come across as being a big head, perfect parent or even a superdad eh!
I am here because of her, because I love her, because she is struggling. I'm not here because I'm frustrated or angry. If all I was, was frustrated and angry then I wouldn't be here at all.... i'd be collecting up the things I keep at her house and ending the relationship.

To answer a couple of questions:
I am aware that we do not have to move in together right now, hence why we have not, nor do we have a specific date in mind when it should happen. We have spoken about it though and I said on here that I'd like them to move in by the end of the year. That doesn't mean that is what's happening.
Regards her upbringing. It was turbulent to say the least and its best not to get into that conversation but suffice to say her parents are not positive role models.