Are parents always to blame for their children's bad behaviour?

[sandyballs]

And if so, when did it all start. It's surely a modern thing. When I behaved badly I'm pretty sure my parents didn't beat themselves up about their bad parenting skills and try to find out "where they had gone wrong", they just accepted that kids occasionally behave badly.

The reason I'm asking is that one of my DDs (5) behaved quite appalling for a day during our holiday last week. Lots of shouting, foot stamping and flinging herself about, which although very wearing and a bit embarrassing in public, I just put down to too many late nights and erratic mealtimes. But DH viewed it completely differently, started going on about me being too soft with her, how it was a cry for attention because her sister gets more of my time (in his opinion, not mine!), how I should take her out on my own, just the two of us etc. Basically blaming me for her bad behaviour.

dh makes similar comments at times, and the thing about spending time with our children as individuals does have some merit, I think. We have a ds and a dd and although they love each other dearly I think they both enjoy the occasional "daddy" and "mummy" time on their own (and a break from each other too). That said I don't think that the occasional screaming wobbly is necessarily a sign of "bad" parenting above and beyond the lack of routine during the holidays. I certainly recognise plenty of my own (and dh's) behaviours (good and bad) in the children. I had some counselling fairly recently and spent most of it talking about my relationship with my mother. I am sure that my children at some point will be doing the same!

I need help - my daughter of 3 is giving us a load of trouble. For example:

1. We have tried to potty train her for last year and she still wees on the floor even though she is able to do it on the toilet . This is on purpose. When shes needs a poo she will ask for a nappy and refuses to use potty or toilet.
2. She likes to see people upset. For example she will ask, "if I break your toy will you be upset". And then will do it. If she see me upset it does not bother her at all
3. She will not eat properly, although she sits at the table. She only really eats pasta / rice and brocholli and refuses to even try anthing else
4. Tried all sorts of ways to discipline her (time out / naughty step and if you take toys away she does not seem bothered and will offer you more) with no avail. Even ignoring bad behaviour and praising is having little effect.

Although I realise alot of this might be due to the new arrival of my son five months ago, I still need to try and sort this out because her disobedience becomes dangerous and is getting worse.

Can anyone help?

Thanks

Ange, she sounds COMPLETELY normal!

I don't mean to be dismissive of what you say but you are describing a completely normal child.

In my experience it's about choosing appropriate consequences, and sticking to them; don't get downhearted if she seems not to care or you think the consequences have no effect. If you are consistent, consequences work. Kids try all sorts of manouverings to stop consequences, and it ofen works!

1. put her back in nappies, she not ready yet.or if she is ready she is wanting to be babied because of the baby.
2. children of 3 or under are incapable of feeling sympathy.it's a thing that comes with time.she's just experimenting and finding the whole cause and efect thing interesting. 3)so long as she is sitting at the table and eating something, just keep trying her with new stuff.

sounds pretty standard 3 year old stuff and not dangerous at all.
keep telling yourself it's a phase!

alexsmum, I agree with all your points, well said.

Particularly agree about the sympathy/empathy thing; kids just don't have that ability yet, they are not mini adults, they are different!

Well I am responsible for my children's bad behaviour - because they have inherited my personality traits (arsey, resistant to authority, being ultra contrary...) - sigh...

It has been really useful reading these comments. My DDs (5) behaviour has been getting progressively worse over the past few weeks. Because it's been progressive and I don't seem to be aable to do anything to chnage it I have ended up coming down pretty hard on her, to no avail. After reading these post I think I need to change my approach. I think at the moment she proably thinks that she can't do anyting right and is always being told off.

Should I back off and try and ignore minor things like whinging and moaning and only really do anything when she does something really really 'naughty'? How do you deal with bad behaviour.

Could the schools holidays and lack of routine played a part in her worsening bahaviour?

Advice please, I really don't want to lose my temper again.

sandy - I haven't read the whole thread, but I am of the view that parents should be very consistent in how they treat their children.

I have seen the result of favouritism in my own family and know taht it can have very long term consequences. My father always favoured me over my siblings and at the age of 38 (me) and 46 (my brother) my brother still has problems with this fact. We have never had a normal relationship as brother and sister and I think it has alot to do with jealousy. My father died 11 years ago but my brother still can't accept the fact that my father favoured me. My father had his reasons for this favouritism, but it really hasn't helped our family and has been very divisive.

Also I think your DH is wrong about being "too soft", what does too soft mean ? Children this young need lots of love and attention. I don't believe in "good cop, bad cop" either, i.e. one parent being soft and the other tough. I think parents need to be very consistent, have an agreement between themselves as to how best to deal with children, otherwise they will get mixed signals and won't know what appropriate behaviour is at any given age or time.

ps - I blame an awful lot of my own bad behaviour and that of my siblings on my parents. I guess I hadn't actually realised this until I beacme a parent myself, but yes, I would agree that how one is brought up is very key. It does mould and shape our personalities even as adults.

But sometimes it's difficult to define "bad behaviour" what is "bad" to me may not necessarily be to others and vice versa ie. from Fluffy Charlotte - clearly her kids were not being BAD per se but to the lady in the street they were ....
My DD is 3.10 and is normally well behaved, polite, kind and interested but not all the time and can be a mare for no reason at all. She was told off by a lady in a shop the other day because she sat down ( by my feet) while I was queuing at the till - she harmed no - one and was bored stupid and I was happy for her to shuffle along on her bum as we moved up the queue - it saved a horrible whining incident that was brewing - So why ffs was that "BAD" The woman actually said " What are you doing there? big girl like you should be on your feet - aren't you BAD for your mummy" !!! - I replied that whingeing and whining would have been so much worse and "Oh dear is she causing YOU a problem" in a loud voice!! - She joined another queue muttering to herself
So all I can say - it's a bloody minefield - you're hung if you do and you're hung if you don't

And busy body old bints should get out of my effing way !!

Wow, I'd forgotten about this. Haven't had time to read all your replies yet but will look forward to doing that tomorrow, when the boss is out . Thanks.

Blimey, it's even made "discussion of the day"

Hmmmm, I definately don't blame my parents for my bad behaviour as a teenager and young woman. They've never shown me anything but love and support. But then again they always gave DB and myself enough rope to make our own mistakes (and hopefully learn by them) but not enough to hang ourselves. Should they have been stricter? I think not. The thing that stopped me going completely off the rails was the thought of dissappointing them as I loved them so much because of the way they treated me. Dad in particular was very easy going, the only time that something bothered him was if it affected his family directly, he didn't get het up over the 'outside world', which gave DB and myself a very 'live and let live' attitude. Thanks for that Dad. You see I did learn from my mistakes and learnt to behave in a more adult manner not because I was scared of getting a 'good hiding' but because I respected my parents through love, not fear.

My kids can be little ....ummmmm 'tinkers' at times but they know right from wrong and when they've upset me. They come over and cuddle me and say sorry (they are 4yo and almost 2yo). I'm quite laid back in what I let them do, but make sure they know when to behave properly. I don't smack them, try not to yell too much and apologise if I do. It would break my heart to bits if they turned round one day and said that they were scared of me. I would've failed as a mother.

So, do parents make you what you are? I think to a certain extent they do. I hope that I've only picked up the good bits from my folks and hope that my kids will do the same from me. But as to if they f**k you up? IMO if they are 'normal' non-abusive parents and not wierdly controlling, then no they don't. You push your own boundaries, make your own choices, at the end of the day all parents can really do is keep their kids safe while they can, be there when they're needed and help pick up the pieces.

interesting reading this, I really agree that it's so hard to have your children 'judged' as if they were adults/we always had control over their mood/temparaments.

my babe's only 10 mths old but I guess being in some form of routine since he was born means when he's not happy I can usually gauge why. still there are days when I just can't read him and I know that will continue and that no amount of 'positive parenting' can stop the odd tantrum taking place. I hope I'll have the guts to stand up for myself and for him and not bow to peer/social pressure in how I handle things..but it's not an easy ride.

Tiredness/my mood definitely affects how I perceive his behaviour/deal with things in general.

from what I've learned over the past 10 mths as a single mum I really think that it's very hard to listen to your gut, make a plan and stick to it/see it through as there is so much pressure to be the perfect parent/follow general 'advice' on things and you are always being judged on what choices you make. I do it too, so am not some kind of saint !

hope I can just tough things out and be true to myself and my baby rather than try to please other people ...

No its not always the parents fault or even the kids fault!

I do think that parents need to take responsibility for setting some boundaries and consequences.
But children are children, they have off days, they have temper tanttrum phases and tbh so do we adults!

DS is going through a very active phase and started his temper tantrums early (17mo).

Last week he had a huge screamy meltdown in the park because he wanted to go to the conservatory/aviary and it was closed. Someone told me I was spoiling him (at 17 months?) - P* Off!
He was tired, he wanted to see the pretty birds and as he can't yet talk/reason he had no idea why the door was locked and why he couldn't go in.

Excuse me joining in thread late - hope Ok - have been lurking because it's a very interesting question. I agree that a child's behaviour is dependent on a mixture of personalities and environments and whether a child is hungry or tired at that particular moment, but the most 'horrifying' thing is that my dd of 3yrs is currently mimicking every single thing I do, in speech and action, right down to intonation, nuance, manner of behaviour, attitudes towards certain tasks and levels of enthusiasm (or not!). It's so accurate that it's like looking in the mirror - (not always a pleasant experience) and I am trying to modify my own behaviour as a result. So, in this context, how can we not be responsible for our children's behaviour? I agree though that we are all a lot guiltier about it than our parents generation!

jellyfish - I totally agree. I see in my own behaviour and my siblings' behaviour reflections of my parents and even some close relatives ! Children do mimick (my son is doing it all the time at 2.2 years) and this childish imitation of adult behaviour can continue for an awfully long time. Children are so impressionable.

pfer - I have extremely loving parents too and had a wonderful relationship with both of them throughout most of my life. It is my siblings I have a problem with. Although my parents loved all 3 of us in different ways, they did not seem to teach us from a young age to respect and cherish our siblings. I can't see how this is not a failure on my parents' part.

Conversley, my DH has an excellent relationship with his brother and sister. He admits that it is because his parents were very careful to teach them to love and respect each other from a very young age. DH has enormous respect for his younger sister, but my brother even at age 46 feels nothing but anger and disrespect towards me. These feelings have been there since we were children but they were not properly addressed by our parents.

Yellowrose, I see your point. My parents tried and tried to get DB and me to at least tolerate each other, but we usually ended up thumping each other until I was about 16/17 and was being threatened by a exboyf. Then DB stepped up and helped me out. We don't always get on, have very different views on how to bring up kids etc, I've no idea where he's got his from as it's so unlike the way we were treated - certainly can't blame our parents for his parenting 'skills' or lack of. Thing is my folks tried repeatedly with us but we just liked winding each other up, we were and still are very different in some ways and I can't blame ma and pa for that.

We can all say if only our parents had done this or done that but we reach a point in our lives when we have to say ok I'm a grown up now, maybe my folks weren't perfect, but then neither am I. We all just have to do our best and hope it's good enough. I don't blame my parents for anything that's gone pearshaped in my life (except my butt - thanks mum!) I've made my own choices - not always the right ones, made my own mistakes - quite a lot of them, but they were all made by me - My choices, My mistakes. I'm me and the only person I can blame for my cock-ups is ..... well....me.

Pfer - I don't blame my parents for everything - just not teaching us enough about sibling respect. Other than that, you are right, can't and don't blame them for everything.

My brother has been an a**hole all his life particularly in the way he treats women, and there is no way he learned that from my father. He has idiot friends who behave just like him so he has learned quite a lot of his crap habits from his peers. My father worshipped my mum until the day he died and adored his 2 daughters, so no way did my brother get his chauvanistic traits from my father.

The good thing is I have learned to try and avoid my parents'/relatives' mistakes in the way I raise my son. So there is a very positive aspect to my own childhood experiences.

i forgot about this thread as well!
going back a long way,there was a comment about ppl saying 'is s/he a good baby?' grrrrr!i get that all the time from ppl asking about dd2(9 months).i used to just mumble 'yeah' but i got p**d off with sum1 a couple of months ago and said 'she is to young to know the concept of good and bad yet'.
reading this thread i think birth order and how well u get on with ur siblings has as much to do with behaviour as parenting does.as a mother of 4 i personally find it hard to treat 4 very very different individuals equally,not that i have favourites,its just they all respond differently to different types of dicipline etc.