Do all 4 year old boys turn into dorks??????

[Ghosty]

Hello!
At a bit of a loss as to what to do about DS ...
Like the title of this thread says, he has turned into a total prat!
I don't know whether a lot of it has to do with the arrival of his baby sister (six weeks ago) or whether it is just a normal part of boys' development but I am doing my nut about it it ...
Please someone tell me that this is all normal ...
He runs around like a blue @rsed fly all the time doing stupid things (jumping of furniture, throwing toys etc) shouting, "Look at me Mum, how silly is this Mum?"
He has started telling me to "Shut UP" and "You're Stupid" not just at home but when we are out too.
When he hurts himself he screams like his leg has broken and then lashes out at me (kicking, pinching, hitting) when I am trying to comfort him.
He deliberately does things like pours water out of the bath onto the floor and then when we ask him not to he just goes on regardless.
Yesterday he had a little friend round from Kindy ... it was the first time for this little boy and his mum to come round as I don't know them very well ... DS refused to play with the little boy and I found him (DS) outside in the garden without his clothes on ... when I asked him why he had taken all his clothes off he then laughed like a maniac and peed on the grass and ran away and hid in the bushes ... Not only was I embarrassed but I was speechless too - I have never known DS to behave in this way. I sent him to his room and later when he came out he stole a packet of chocolate fingers from the cupboard and scoffed the lot before coming to me waving the empty packet shouting, "Look what I did Mummy, I ate all the biscuits!"
I am quite worried about him ... he has always been a very sweet, not particularly naughty, kind, sensitive chap and now I don't know him.
What do I do? Please someone tell me that this is a phase and that my boy will return to me???

It sounds like your basic attention seeking and slight jealousy of new sister to me Ghosty. Don't you think? Plus of course the f*ing fours maybe kicking in too. I've written so much about how horrible my ds was at 4 and how I dealt with it that I'm loath to repeat myself here in case people think "oh for gawds sake, she's banging on again, how many times have we heard this, does she think she knows what she's doing or something?" - I don't, particularly, but I did have to deal with quite a bit of challenging 4yo behaviour. So, yes, it's a phase IMO (testosterone surge at 4yo IIRC) added to the issue of his new sibling and it will pass. I think a campaign of ignoring bad behaviour (where possible and it isn't always possible I don't think) and catching him being good or just normally behaved and making a big fuss when he is might help. It is very trying though, I do sympathise.

Ghosty, he sounds a bit like my ds (the bath water, hitting me when he is hurt etc), I suppose much of it is very typical behaviour at that age. The "look at me Mum" stuff could be a demand for more attention as a reaction to the time you need to spend with your new baby. If ds is used to being the only child I suppose a new arrival would make him feel hard done by.

sounds attention seeking to me G. DS1 s teacher (very experienced early years advisor and dep head) said that schools predict up to a terms odd behaviour after a baby is born.

I would (sorry to teach GM to suck eggs)softly repeat the rules "we dont take ourclothes off and run around liek a loon, do we ghostboy?"

Or "dont say Shut up to me I dont say it to you," so that you are quielty reinforcing what he SHOULD be doing wothout giving him the glory of a full on row.

Also for serious repeated breaches of your rules I would (re) introduce a naughty place where he can go and be quiet at the same time, he is probably tired and excited an overhyped. Dont listen to peeople who tell you that you shouldnt have the bedrom as a anughty place BTW - they often get distracted into playing!!!

Have oyu a Cd player with stories? Tell him if he is too overexcited and silly he will ahev to play for one cds worth of Kipper or whatever.

Do hope that helps. Think it is important ot stick to your guns even if this means sitting bf outside a shut bedroom door to keep him in.

Good luck!

baby related I think. M'Lud Codfish (presiding) makes good points. My ds was 3 when ds2 was born, and we are still having a few repercussions now. luckily he has always been angelic to the baby, and loves him, and is sweet with him - but he is definitely more attention-seeking, the latest form being wetting himself all the time. Just because he can't be bothered to go to the loo. Up to 3 times a day. He smiles sweetly and says "it doesn't matter, mummy. It is just an accident. I need new pants, please". !! BLOODY IRRITATING!! Also is noticeably sillier when my attention is on baby (who is 6 months now).

I think it will settle down in time, but it must be a huge shock to be supplanted as the baby, and he DOES get less attention, necessarily, so I don't really blame him.
Good luck!

PS is baby dd LOVELY? Hope all is well with her

I agree with the others - 4yr old testosterone surge plus new sibling. It is just a phase, though that doesn't make it any easier to deal with right now. He will get over it, just keep telling yourself that. And I second WWW's advice of ignoring bad/praising good behaviour, plus trying to involve him as much as possible. Good luck.

Thanks guys .... glad to know that DS is not the only one then ...
Luckily he is lovely to his sister (most of the time) but I daren't leave them alone together because there have been a couple of times when I have found DS forcibly holding in DD's dummy while she is gasping for breath and the other day I heard him shouting at her to shut up when she was fussing in her chair (she wasn't even crying) ...
WWW where is the thread about your DS's behaviour? I will have a read of that too.
The other problem we have is a bit of a conflict between DH and me. I try really hard to let the little things go and concentrate on the seriously anti social behaviour but DH tends to jump down DS's throat for the smallest thing and so at weekends we have quite a few rows going on. I have told DH that he is only rewarding DS with negative attention (DS doesn't care if it is negative or positive) but DH seems to have quite an old fashioned view of parenting .... I try to keep out of it even though I don't agree with DH so that DS doesn't see that we don't agree but it is sooooooo hard ....

PPH ... DD IS absolutely gorgeous by the way ... dreamy ... thanks for asking

Just add my bit...

it does sound new baby related but imo i wouldn't make too many allownaces. this can add to his confusion and increase his insecurities. if we knows he's not allowed to do xyz usually then it will make him feel insecure if he gets away with it now. he needs to know that things won't change just because there's a new baby, this means the rules don't change, your love for him doesn't change, the rewards don't change. as soon as he's worked this lot out he will go back to his usual self.

good luck

p.s. i always find that rewards work better/quicker than punishments

my 4 year old can be like yours, ghosty, and there is certainly no hint of a baby in our house. So don't beat yourself up about baby jealousy.

My 4 year old son has suddenly got into testing boundaries -he does something like throw a shoe half way across the room. I tell him if he does it again, he will be sent to his room. So he very deliberately does it again!! Then I'll say 'go to your room' and he hunches his shoulders and goes up with a lot less fuss than I expect. It's as if he's wanting to see cause and effect.

He's really in a cause and effect stage in his play - loves making lego models and seeing what they will do for instance - so I think he's carrying this on in his behaviour. My oldest son did this as well at that age.

I agree, don't give too much attention to the bad behaviour - just put on your matter of fact hat. Send him to his room or a quiet corner, after a warning, when things kick off. Hopefully he's still young enough to go off if you tell him - or half carry him there.

The fun really starts when he's bigger and refuses point blank to go, and sings 'you're not the boss of me now' (a la malcolm in the middle)..... but you don't want to worry about that yet

Ghosty I have a 3.5 yr old ds and he has started to act really strangely alot like your son. I too am wondering what is going on with him, ds2 is 1.5 so he is used to him being around.

A few weeks ago ds1 was quite ill and after a virus couldn't walk for a week - he gots lots and lots of attention and treats and tbh he hasn't been the same since. He will no longer eat what he is given even if he claims to be really hungry and has started crying uncontrollably until he is nearly sick, he even says himself he doesn't know why he is doing it and can't stop. So I am wondering if maybe it is testosterone or if he is just seeking attention. He never had a tantrum when he was 2. He has also started to get up around 6.30am when he often used to sleep till 8 even if ds2 was up making lots of noise.

Princesspeahead I can really sympathise about the wetting my ds does that too on and off, has been fine for ages but has pooed himself a few times this week something I find hard to deal with.

Anyway just wanted to let you know you are not alone and truely hoping it is just a phase.

We're having odd behaviour from our DS1 who is 5.5 years old (we also have a 3.5 DS & a new 10 week old DD). DS1 has been obsessing with germs, washing hands 100x a day, worrying about poison, crying a school, following me around at home and whining (which drives me mad). Sometimes a think he's putting it on and if I get cross he whimpers and cries and I feel terrible. He loves his new baby sister who is lovely and DS2 is in his own wonderful happy little world.
Has anyone else had this problem?
How long will this phase last?
He's a very good, happy boy usually and this seems odd for him.

Hi Ghosty, I'll see if I can find any of the old threads later - I had some great advice. I won't be able to if the search thing isn't working properly though.

Hi Ghosty, this is very old but it helped me at the time Four yo turning into Kevin the teenager and here's Dahlia's waterjug treatment and other tactics and this is four yo hits terrible twos again and here's a fairly recent F*ing fours thread A lot of reading there and it's probably a bit repetitive, sorry but I hope there's something useful in that lot. He probably does need extra cuddles atm while he's getting used to your dd. Let us know how he is in a while won't you?

Ah .. the waterjug treatment ... I am actually looking forward to trying that out
Thanks for those links WWW ... I will trawl through them today while all of you are snoring on the other side of the world!
Yesterday was the day from hell ... from about lunchtime DD was in a foul mood and did the over tired catnapping and fighting sleep thing that babies tend to do so I was a bit stressed anyway ...
DS hit me when I told him off for nearly running into the road into the path of a car when we walked to the shops ... in front of loads of people and then threw the massivest (word??) tantrum when I said he couldn't have the ice lolly I had promised.
Later he threw his chair across the living room and when I sent him to his room he slammed his door so hard that things fell off the wall and DD jumped out of her skin and howled ...
In the end both DS and I sat on the floor in his room both crying our eyes out because I had given him a smack (and we very rarely smack) and DD was in her cot screaming her head off ...
I just wanted to leave ...
It didn't help that DH had merrily gone off that morning to play cricket ... and had phoned all chirpy saying, "Hi darling, are you having a nice day?" so by the end of the day I was planning my divorce ....
Anyway ... feeling a bit more positive this morning ... DD slept 7 hours from 11pm to 6am ... and DS has been positively angelic so far so maybe today will be better ...
Thanks for the support everyone ...
xxxxxxx

Good to hear you are having a better day so far Ghosty. I think it is a combination of your new DD and being four. My DS1 was 3.5 when DS2 was born and didn't seem to have too many problems adjusting but much of what you said in your first post rings a bell with his behaviour over the last year (he is now five and things seem to be getting easier, although I thought this a few months ago and he slipped straight back into old ways). Just really to echo what Tigermoth says your DS' behaviour is very possibly more to do with being four than your new DD.

Why do people only tell you about the terrible twos, the terrible twos were a breeze in comparison!

Ghosty, just caught up with this thread.
You've had loads of good advice real-time and in the archives, just to say huge sympathies and it DOES pass. Ds is a lot less of a prat this term than he was last term, and has had praise, twinkles and Bionicles heaped on him at school and at home. But throwing stuff, acting like an eejit at home and in public...oh, my goodness, that sounded familiar. I was totally mortified when my sensible, sensitive boy DREW ON A WALL for the first time in his life at four.
I think it is one of the only drawback of a 4-year age gap - the new baby turns up just when the boys would be wigging out anyway.
It could be worse - at least our little dears don't know the theme tune from Malcolm in the Middle

message withdrawn

Right, have just lost the plot with DS and need to off load ...
He just came running in to me all proud of himself, "Look, Mummy, look at what I did to my trousers!!"
He's only cut a socking great hole out of his best pair with a pair of scissors!
I mean, FFS ... I thought they did this sort of thing when they were 2 ... not 4 and a half ...
I lost it ... shouted, ranted and raved, sent him to his room and have banned tv for 2 days ...
When I asked him why he did it he said he 'wanted to' and that he didn't know he couldn't.
I might be imagining it but I am sure that I have said 1 billion times 'we only cut paper' but like I say, I may be wrong!

AAAAAAAAAggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
I probably dealt with it all wrong ... should have found something positive to praise him for like "Oh well, never mind darling ... it is a lovely zig zag isn't it? Clever boy!"
But really I am totally fed up with it all ...

Hugs Ghosty.

Sympathy Ghosty. Don't be too hard on yourself, we all lose it sometimes.

Ghosty, hugs. Ds customised his new trainers with a red felt-tip at precisely this age. We lost it with him in the same way and I felt terrible afterwards but it taught him a lesson and he never did anything like this again. Honestly, this witless phase will pass quite soon and you'll have your little star back again.

Sweetie- losing it is almost inevitable sometimes, as Marina and WWW have said. Lots of love to you. This isn't the end of the world as you know it, honest. It'll really will pass. Just be kind to yourself in the meantime whenever possible.
(If you want positive... sounds like Ghostie Jr is an couturist in the making- the boy will go far- mark my words!)

Hugs Ghosty. I'm going through exactly the same problems with my ds1. Ds2 is four months old and I thought ds1 had taken it really well. But since ds2 was in hospital, ds1 has been a complete nightmare. Tantrums, running off in shops, throwing things, smashing his toys, screaming at me, hitting me and the latests one - packing his bags for boarding school and saying he doesn't want a mum and dad anymore. So you have my sympathy and I hope to god it's just a phase they grow out of.

I would try to give him much more attention (he needs much more attention to be reasured that he is still important in your life) but won't allow him to break the rules regardless of being in the terrible 4s or jealous.

I disagree with those who say that it's not sibling jealousy or to say that it will pass by itself, because it will only pass if you appropiately deal with it.

There's a book by Steve Biddulph (The secret of happy children, and , Raising Boys) which is worth a look but deal with the situation asap. Sadly, I need to confess that there have been two cases in the family when ignoring the child went so bad that the jealousy became a lifelong rivalry, and in one of them it lead the older child to a rather severe depression by the time he reached 11.
I'm sorry for getting you worried but I have seen the effects of this and God, it has been a disaster...

when I said "ignoring the child" I actually meant "ignoring the child bad behaviour" as it was after all just a cry for attention...