Do all 4 year old boys turn into dorks??????

[Ghosty]

Hello!
At a bit of a loss as to what to do about DS ...
Like the title of this thread says, he has turned into a total prat!
I don't know whether a lot of it has to do with the arrival of his baby sister (six weeks ago) or whether it is just a normal part of boys' development but I am doing my nut about it it ...
Please someone tell me that this is all normal ...
He runs around like a blue @rsed fly all the time doing stupid things (jumping of furniture, throwing toys etc) shouting, "Look at me Mum, how silly is this Mum?"
He has started telling me to "Shut UP" and "You're Stupid" not just at home but when we are out too.
When he hurts himself he screams like his leg has broken and then lashes out at me (kicking, pinching, hitting) when I am trying to comfort him.
He deliberately does things like pours water out of the bath onto the floor and then when we ask him not to he just goes on regardless.
Yesterday he had a little friend round from Kindy ... it was the first time for this little boy and his mum to come round as I don't know them very well ... DS refused to play with the little boy and I found him (DS) outside in the garden without his clothes on ... when I asked him why he had taken all his clothes off he then laughed like a maniac and peed on the grass and ran away and hid in the bushes ... Not only was I embarrassed but I was speechless too - I have never known DS to behave in this way. I sent him to his room and later when he came out he stole a packet of chocolate fingers from the cupboard and scoffed the lot before coming to me waving the empty packet shouting, "Look what I did Mummy, I ate all the biscuits!"
I am quite worried about him ... he has always been a very sweet, not particularly naughty, kind, sensitive chap and now I don't know him.
What do I do? Please someone tell me that this is a phase and that my boy will return to me???

Oh God Chandra ....
I hear what you are saying .... but I really can't give DS more attention ... I am running circles around him anyway ... I am driving myself into the ground trying to make him feel better and if anything it is getting worse.
TBH I think we have spoiled him and over compensated him for the arrival of his sister ... he now demands a 'special treat' every day ... he says, "What's my treat today?" almost as soon as he has had breakfast ...
When people have come round with a present for the new baby he has gone so far as to throw a fit if they haven't brought him one.
Poor DD spends most of her time awake sitting in her chair or lying under the baby gym because once I have changed her nappy and fed her there is no way I can play with her if DS is around ...
He is getting way more attention now than he ever did before she was born ...
I tell him that I love him and that he was and will always be my first baby ... I have shown him pictures of him as a baby to show him that I used to feed him and hold him all the time ...
I never tell him that HE is naughty ... I always tell him that what he DID was naughty etc ...
I try not to sweat the small stuff and all of that ....
I am in the process of re reading Stephen Biddulph's Raising Boys and cried my heart out at the bit that says 'Boys shouldn't go to daycare until they are over 3 as it will damage them' or something like that .... well, I am sorry Mr Biddulph, but DS HAD to go to nursery when he was 5 months old becouse otherwise our house would have been repossessed and how well would he have done homeless????
How much more attention do you suggest we give him Chandra? ... I do play dough, painting, reading stories, go for walks with him ... he goes to Kindergarten, swimming lessons, soccer club, playgroup ....
My DH and I have not managed to sit down and TALK to eachother since DD was born .... my house is a mess, I haven't had a hairdryer to my head for 8 weeks, I am having at the most, 4 hours sleep a night ...
And we are running around DS like headless chickens ....
It is getting me down ...
Please don't tell me that I need to give DS MORE attention otherwise he will be damaged forever ...
Sorry for ranting ...
And thanks everyone for the support ... it is much appreciated ....

Ghosty take a big deep breath. You're doing everything you can and I wish I could do as much for my ds1. He threatend to leave again tonight. I'm thinking of you.

Thanks Pip ...
Didn't mean to go off on one ...
At the moment is DS threatened to leave home I might just help him pack his bag ...
No ... didn't mean that obviously.
How old is your DS?

No advice - but lots of hugs. Am thinking no more children and if this bump turns out to be a boy might just leave it at the hospital! It sounds like you are a very caring mother who needs some sleep. DS will not be damaged in any way, neither will dd. They will both turn out to be normal and you have not damaged their changes of medical school or being the next pm of NZ. Who cares about the house - I don't have two children and god knows the last time my house saw some duster/mop/vaccumm cleaner action (I avoided the tread on how often do you clean your loo - not as much as most MNs I think). And well your dh loves you, as do both your children, hairdrier or not! I am sure you look beautiful enough without it - god knows we all wish we could go back to non-child looking state when I had time to make sure my shoes matched my clothes - now I just worry if my jogging bottoms are in a fit state to go out in....

Ghosty please don't take this the wrong way but please print this thread out and keep it for 20 years and then read it back.

Ghosty, you sound fab, keep up the good work, it's early days yet. I thought I was excelling myself putting a DVD on for DS1 and making sure he had sufficient snacks when DS2 was tiny and needing fed constantly, playdoh etc just didn't feature. I'm sure you will be rewarded for all your hard work, once life settles down again.

Ghosty, my ds is only coming up to three so I don't have any practical advice, but I do remember once telling my mother that I was going to leave home and she did offer to pack my bag for me... even started throwing things into a suitcase as far as I remember

Of course, I'm probably horribly psychologically damaged as a result, but still...

Hang on in there. Hoping things get better soon.

Thanks Cazzybabs, Demented and Georgina ...
I know that one day I will look back on all this and laugh ... I do ... but it just isn't very funny at the moment.
Looking back on my last post I think that the 'hairdryer' comment was a bit pathetic ... I mean there are people with real problems out there aren't there? Get a grip Ghosty FFS!!
Note to self: a) Must be less selfish ... b) Remember I am better off than many people ... c) Cut off all my hair!
Today I have let him be on the computer all morning and I will let him watch telly all afternoon ... he can't go to kindy because he has a cold ... although I was tempted to send him anyway ... mean mummy ....

Firstly Ghosty many hugs. Secondly I read a good piece of advice somewhere that the same person in a family cannot be put first all the time. At some point you should probably get your hairdryer out and use it just to prove that you believe this.

Secondly your ds will probably enjoy having time today just to chill. It sounds like all those activities have worn both of you out. Lots of people have grown up completely normal just watching mum do the housework and going out on normal trips to the shops etc.

Thirdly don't believe everything you read in self help books. Just take what is useful and ignore the rest. My main problem with "raising boys" is do you really want to raise a boy who looks like the author? All that stuff about helping boys be themselves - well a decent haircut and they wouldn't need as much self confidence because they would be left alone. The talking "side by side" bit rather than face to face might be helpful though.

toddlerbob re. looking like author ...
Just looked at the cover and you are right ... He he he ...
Book going back onto shelf right now!
Thanks hon ...
XGhostyX

Message withdrawn

Snigger re Steve Biddulph's silly hairdo Toddlerbob! Ghosty, I found that comment in his book dead unhelpful too. Tune it out if you possibly can. And as someone who has been there, I can add to the voices here that say yes it DOES pass, and that even if you think you aren't coping, giving him enough attention, you are actually, because you're a really fab mother who's going through what Cod rightly says is a hard transition. It passes because they have a lot of growing up to do at this time and when they've done it they are delightful again. Disaster scenarios of depressed children elsewhere are not relevant or helpful to you at this time. Forget about them. Hugs.

I've just caught this thread, and it's made me feel sooooo much better. My ds is 4&1/2, and has been making our lives hell. On Friday the childminder brought him home, at her wits end, cos he'd been so disobedient, refused to co-operate with her all day, and finally had hit one of her children (hard) again. I honestly thought she was going to dump us (omg, emergency!).

Over the weekend both Daddy and I found a quiet opportunity to talk to ds (at seperate times) to point out that he can't behave this way. We didn't really expect to make a difference tho'.

However, yesterday, when I dropped ds at his pre-school group, I asked the teacher what his behaviour was like there, with staff and to the other kids, and asked for her advice.
I didn't realise ds had crept back to me, and was standing behind me, listening to all that we said (I hadn't intended talking about him like this in front of him, it's supposed to damage their self-esteem).
Since then (and I know it's early days) he has been an angel. He wants lots of cuddles, has helped me do some jobs, and stopped what he was doing to come and eat after only being asked Twice!

Could it be that a slightly dented self-esteem is what's needed here?

Ghosty, love, give yourself a break, PLEASE! You're doing a fab job and you need some coping strategies, not lecturing by Biddulph or anyone else. Agree, ignore the bits of his books you don't like, esp the daycare comments, they really are a load of old shite! May I suggest:

• Sticking your ds in front of a video as often as you can/need to get some time with your dd/dh
• Bribery, big time. Tell him there's a new rule: he gets treats ONLY in return for doing things for you/agreeing to play on his own for half an hour or whatever. Explain that he's the big boy and his sister isn't and she needs you to do things for her and he doesn't, sorry, but that's the way it is.
• Are there any friends who can have ds/dd for a couple of hours? I feel much more well disposed to dd when she's slept for a bit in the morning and I've had an hour to catch my breath/come here/dry my hair (!) etc. Lots of people love babies, she'll be fine with a baby doting friend for a few hours if you've got one
• Can you up ds's time at kindy? If so, do it! Buy yourself some time if pos.

And it WILL PASS! Sorry to anyone who disagrees, but it just will. They don't stay the same, the grow up and change. Chandra, I know you meant well but...

just caught a wee bit of this. sorry you're having a hard time. My ds1 is 4.5 and ds3 is 4 months. I have had problems with him since baby came - more chronic moaning than anything else, wasn't much fun, but he's definitely calming down. don't know what ratio of normal 4 year old behaviour:reaction to new sibling, definitely a mixture, as it is with your ds.

anyway, don't have any solutions for you (sorry) but my jaw dropped when you listed the amount you do with him. It's a bit different with my ds1, as his brother, ds2 is 3 and they're very close, so when I'm with baby, they're usually playing together, but there is no way I spend anything like that amount of time with them, and there is no way i'd suggest you're not giving him enough attention - if anything too much. When they start asking for treats is when they stop getting them - I fell into this trap when ds 1 changed playgroup & wasn't very happy - I'd have a treat for him when he came out, but prretty soon he started asking for it, so I just stopped altogether. Now he occasionally gets one, but never when he's asked.

I wpould do your best to stop feeling guilty, to stop tip toeing around him, and to have very clear boundries which you don't waver. In your original post, when he said "Look what I did Mummy, I ate all the biscuits!" that clearly said "and what are you going to do about it?"

It will get better really soon, just don't take too much crap from him & don't feel like you're not doing enough, you are. Look after yourself too, most imp. - 4 hours sleep is not enough to look after yourself, never mind baby & badly behaved 4 yr old too. It'll all come together quick, don't wory.

ghosty, there is one advantage so far not mentioned to losing it big time in front of your children. I think it's not all bad for children to see you have a boundary too, a point at which you snap. To realise that after a certain degree of irritating, attention demanding and downright naughty behaviour from them, you will cease to be the usual nice, reasonable mummy they know and love. My sons hate to see me in snapping mode - I am not very nice to them or anyone while I am like this. It's not that I slap them but I withdraw all my usual mummy responses. It might last 5 minutes, it has been known to last an hour. They know I have been pushed too far and not even a 'sorry' from them will instantly solve things. I will need a little time to get my equlibrium back.

As I said, they hate this, and so, when I feel they are really pushing the boundaries, I say, 'do you want me to get really angry'. This is a threat they take seriously. It doens't mean they always take heed of it, but it can help. While I too suffer guilt attacks when I lose it in front of my children, I think there's something in the idea that they don't take my niceness for granted. Part of growing up.

Well my DS isnt there yet but I agree about the attention seeking thing...especially since he calls you to see what he has done!!

Cant be nice for you though, especially with a new baby in the house!!! What about trying to spend alone time with him?? Maybe he misses you ?

How is he towards the new baby??

Well my DS isnt there yet but I agree about the attention seeking thing...especially since he calls you to see what he has done!!

Cant be nice for you though, especially with a new baby in the house!!! What about trying to spend alone time with him?? Maybe he misses you ?

How is he towards the new baby??

Oh Ghosty - huge hugs. Just read this through and really feel for you.

I agree with some of the other comments here about the Biddulph book - if it isn't helpful to you, put it on one side. (I must admit this is one of the few books I have ever thrown in the bin, because I disagreed so vehemently with some of what he was saying ... Some of it was helpful though.)

My boys are 4 and 6, and they do drive me to breaking point occasionally. I agree completely with what Tigermoth says about them learning the consequences of when they really push you too far, beyond any possibility of patience and calmness.

I would say both of my two go in phases, and we will have a tough couple of weeks whilst they test all the boundaries AGAIN, but it does settle down again after a while. Hope your ds will settle down again for you very soon.

Thanks peeps ...
Feeling a bit guilty today because poor DS has a bug and is all babyish and pathetic.... he has 'slapped cheek' whatever that is ...
He has been a sweetie, all cuddly and snuggly and back to being my boy again.
I feel guilty because I am glad he is ill ... so that I can have a bit of peace! Really really bad mummy
Mind you, getting up for him AND the baby at night is taking it all out of me .... zzzzzzzz