I'm seriously thinking about more 1950's style parenting. Comments please?

[clumsymum]

We have a very lively, personable, boisterous bright little boy of nearly 7, who is also cheeky to the point of being rude, and VERY controlling.

For the last 3 years we have tried to stick to the Tanya Byron / Christopher Green etc model as regards discipline and behaviour. Praise the good, use reward charts, try to ignore bad behaviour etc.
But as he gets older feel that I'm floundering. The last two weeks of the school term were horrendous as far as his behaviour was concerned, and altho' Mon - Wed was OK-ish, from Thursday teatime, he became a bugger, and yesterday morning he shouted at me, threw things at me, slammed doors in my face, the lot.

So late yesterday morning I slapped his bottom for the first time ever, and he spent 30 minutes locked in his room while I ignored him.
The rest of the day his behaviour was much improved, and right thru' to lunchtime today, when he refused to pick up toys. Another spell locked in his room, and he picked up his toys (after a deal of yelling from inside his bedroom, he wasn't allowed out until he had been quiet for 10 minutes, and agreed to do as he was asked). When the toys had been cleared up, he was hugged and praised for it.

Given how many programmes there are concerned with handling 'kids from hell', and the number of parents at school struggling to discipline their children, I am beginning to think that the 'softly softly' approach has come too far, and that an 'old school approach' to discipline might be called for.

BTW, I'm not suggesting regular beatings with a strap or such, but that reasonable punishment for poor behaviour takes on equal importance to praise for the good.

KIttywitts your dp is right.

CM, it honestly sounds as if you are both very tired. I sympathise with your situation and understand your frustration at the moment.

Regarding his early wake up Now its school holidays can you suggest a 'treat' quiet activity in the afternoons - something he enjoys but might not usually be allowed to do to help him wind down a bit?

I agree with other posters that you have to model the type of behaviour you want from him, do you shout at him? then he will shout back. And what do you teach him by hitting him?

"decide how he must behave"
Sorry luv, you can't do this! he is an independant person and HE decides how he behaves. You can set boundaries for him - thats part of being a parent but you can't decide for him.

Please I urge you, try and find out why he is behaving like this.

Sicker charts are unliekly to work with a bright 7 yr ol. But how about tackling the cause and effect aproach to discipline in a differnt way.

"When you shout at mummy she can't understand what is wrong. If you talk quietly then mummy can understand oyu and hlep you sort it out."
"when you don't help tidy your toys away it means your toys can get broken or lost - to show you what that means every time you don't tidy up I will take one of your toys away for a day/week"
"When we get all our jobs/chores done in the house and get ready quickly we have more time to spend at the park/doing whatever outside activity he enjoys."

Oh and finally a couple of questions:
When you say he hits you - when does he do this? what is happening just before he hits you?
How do you ask him to tidy up his toys? What is he doing at the time? how tidy is tidy?
When he shouts, what is he shouting about?

Thanks Bubblez, I knew I couldn't be alone.

BTW, we have just had a lovely evening, dh and ds laughing thru bathtime, which has frequently been a war-zone, and ds sitting and actually listening to story time, insted of the usual messing about.

oh clumsymum - some of that rings a bell. A lot of ds2's playing up is to do with attention seeking. I quite understand why he does it, he has a shit position within the family, and I do as much as I can to make that better for him. However although his behaviour may be understandable it does not make it acceptable. That's where the list of pretty rigid rules (coupled with a reward) has worked quite well. This is very different from how I parented him a year ago, but the family situation has changed.

If they're having problems at school have you tried fish oils? Sounds daft but lots of good research starting to back up their benefits. With ds2's deterioration in behaviour I started fish oils as well. Dry patches of skin can be a sign that he's low in the necessary omega oils.

aviatrix- you are right- I mean authoritarian.

oh bit fgs don;t give eye Q. I;d recommend nordic naturals - from nutricentre (although they're a bit slow), or eskimo oil, or efalex.

My parents always threw me out of the house when I behaved really badly. Must have been so nice to just be able to get me out of the house for a while and I could go and let off some steam. I can't exactly throw my 7 year-old out in the London streets though.

Hasten to add I was not parented in the 1950s, but 1970s

riab with all due respect my mum would shout at me, and smack me but neither my brother or I would dream of ever doing anything like that back because she was our mother.

CLumsymum there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. When other peoples children are 15-16 and still hitting them because they are tired then they will wish they had done something different.

Oh and btw how many of us were raised with this newfound 'softly softly approach' I bet, not many and how many of us who werent raised 'softly softly' would ever dreamed of hitting or swearing etc at our parents. Let me guess errr none.

Research with children with extreme challenging behaviour (which obviously your son does not have!), showed that purposely looking for something to praise every - 5(ish) minutes worked very well in reducing bad behaviour within classrooms of children with very bad behaviour. It decreased the bad behaviour dramatically. Perhaps try coupling that (looking for things to praise) with quite fixed and spelt out boundaries, woth fixed penalties for contraventions. I guess thinking about it, its that that has worked with ds2. (although his behaviour isn't what I would call extreme challening either- he just pushes).

Bubblez,

Me and my brother were raised with the 'softly softly' approach. I was only ever yelled at or smacked about five times in my entire childhood. On each occasion my mum bitterley regreted it - and only did that because she thought I was in danger as well as being naughty (ie skipping in kitchen with hot pans).
Neither of us has ever raised our voice/hand to our parents, or any other 'parental' figure for that matter. We went to bed at bedtime with only a bit of wheedling for lights on 5 mins longer to read, we obeyed the sweets only at weekends rule and didn't swear in the house. Not because there were punishments attached to these things - there weren't. In fact the only other punishment I recall was if we fought each other. We used to be sent into our seperate rooms, and inevitably it worked and we'd end up creeping out to talk to each other through the door. Mom used to laugh cos that was the aim - to get us playing together again!

clumsy - my 9 year olds behaviour has been spiralling recently. One day last week he had one smack on bottom and it has proved much much more effective than months of nagging and trying to reward the good.This may be because its so rare but still i am with you. I think they just NEED to know who is in charge. Particularly feisty personality-full little boys! good luck!

Not smacking or shouting at your kids is not the same as not reacting to bad behaviour though. I don't really understand what is meant by 'softly softly' approach. Sounds like you are not meant to give feedback on bad behaviour at all which surely noone thinks is a good idea? Ignoring bad behavious sounds more like a stupid approach as children need and want reactions and attention. How infuriating to be ignored when you are trying to get someone's attention. Come to think of iot., DH always ignores me when I have a go at him and it makes me even more of a madwoman.

clumsymum just remember for every one person who comes on here and says 'pamper' the child and under no circumstances smack their bum there are IMO 100 lurkers who would say the opposite but daren't

FM - Disaplining/punishing dosen't mean smacking I think that we can all agree that a smack is used as a last result. But when I say softly softly approach I mean those people who daren't raise their voice at their lo, or not take a hold of the situation. And IMO excusing behaviour that is clearly unacceptable because he/she is 'tired' is softly, softly. IMO a child needs to know that said behaviour is not accepted nomatter what the underlying reason is.

Underlying reasons for things eg tiredness, etc are for parents to consider. Eg, disapline the child for that behaviour and later in your own time think of what might have agrivated such behaviour and how to avoid it in the future.

Exactly NotanOtter!!

I still think when you smack, it's largely because you have lost control/are at the end of your tether and not for any other discipline methodology reason

Agree bubblez. I just think that your approach is not necessarily soft or impotent just because you don't smack or dream yourself back to the 1950s.

What makes me the most angry is when those mothers who take that softly softly approach do it in public.

Given an example, child X hits my dd. Along comes 'newage mum', (in a soft tone)"Oh child X, don't do that, its naughty". Then to me in front of child "Oh child X is just tired". Child X runs off and plays. Next week at baby group child X does the same thing again.

Tell me again how this ignoring the bad and rewarding the good works? Oh and tell me whether if in the same situation, you would give a f@*? that child X is 'tired'. Cos I curtainly didn't!!

Now I would point fingers, get down to my dd's level and tell her off very very firmly and stop her from playing for at least a minuite for such discusting behaviour. So that she knows not to do such a thing again. (BTW my dd has never hit another child)

No I would do the same as you. I must say I have never come across this though. Most of the parents I have met tell their child off for hitting another child luckily.

I think you should excuse some behaviour when they are tired - at 7, they have to go to school, they don't choose to go and by the end of the week they are knackered. I'm not saying don't tell them off but if their behaviour is worse when they are tired, then it is solely because they are tired not because they are badly behaved children.

toddlers are a different prospect