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How do you teach them that Mummy's the boss?

80 replies

chicaguapa · 25/02/2004 11:54

My dd is 2.5 and genuinely seems to think that she has as much right to make decisions as me and my dh.

She tells us not to do things like talk on the phone or she'll switch the TV off when she doesn't want us to watch it anymore (we hardly watch it anyway!). If we override her (because we're the parents after all) it really really looks like we're being naughty in the same way as if she's been told not to do something and then she goes ahead and does it anyway.

She's not copying our behaviour per se as we don't switch the TV off etc but she does tell us to "Come back" when we walk out her bedroom like we do when she runs off in the park.

It's a bit difficult to explain as the behaviour just comes across as a normal bossy 2 yo. She's a really good girl and generally very obedient which I hope we can owe to how consistent we've been with discipline whilst being relaxed at the same time ie only saying NO when it's dangerous or a definite no no instead of saying no all the time so that they switch off.

I've always tried to be fair when bringing her up and not wanting to give her mixed signals etc. I think she's not just being naughty and that what's happening at the moment is confusing her as she can't understand why we get to do what we want and make decisions final and she can't.

I'm probably reading too much into it which is probably because I'm really interested in child psychology but I'm loathe to start telling her that we get to do what we want because we're bigger and older etc.

Any ideas? Should children understand who's got authority automatically through the parents behaviour or is there some other way to tackle this problem?

OP posts:
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aloha · 25/02/2004 17:18

The way to avoid pointless negotiation is repetition IME. ie You have to go to sleep, you are tired and it's bedtime. and repeat until you are sick of the sound of your own voice .

zebra · 25/02/2004 19:03

Hmmmm... I think children are like big people, some are bossier than others. My eldest isn't bossy, he's just uncooperative! I could write essays on how I try to coax "uncooperative" into minding. Refuse to do anything for him, bribes, threats (use threats more than I like, but they are effective!), rewards, distractions, patience (waiting him out), negotiation, compromise...

Evita · 25/02/2004 20:37

This is such an interesting thread. It's all in the future for me at the moment as dd is only 17 months and still pretty maleable.

I was wondering though if it's always down to how a parent has 'brought a child up' that leads to their testing boundaries or if it's not also something in their nature? Because it sounds as though chicaguapa is on the ball and knows what she's doing and wants to achieve but still is having this problem. Whereas other less concerned parents may not have it. I'm thinking of my dp's sister who's dd is now 4 and was brought up so absurdly flexibly but never made a peep at bedtime etc.

zebra · 25/02/2004 20:43

I think you're right about individual temperment, but it's more fundamental than that.
Why should Mummy be taken as boss? Why shouldn't they think their opinions and directions aren't equally valid as Mummy's? DD naturally just likes to get my approval and to cooperate, but DS just wants what he wants. And increasingly, DD wants what she wants, too, but she's still massively more likely to cooperate than DS is or probably ever will be. Just in her nature.

Paula71 · 25/02/2004 22:18

Say no and mean no, even when they scream kick and make you want to lie down on the floor and weep!

If I didn't do that with ds twins (26 months) I'd be a nervous wreck. Poor DH has just realised he needs to be more firm for his sake!!!

I don't know so much we have strict house rules, it is pretty easy going most of the time but when they start that independence thing it goes so far. They have started to figure this out, when mummy is in a playing mood or when we have to do as told.

Then again they aren't speaking back yet! They do mimic me saying "no" to them and then run away laughing- humph!

twiglett · 25/02/2004 22:22

message withdrawn

chicaguapa · 26/02/2004 09:27

Well, this has turned out to be an interesting thread! I don't think I've ever had this many messages from a question I've posted!

Last night I phoned my FIL's neighbour who's a child psychologist. I already knew her, just didn't know what she did, so she's met DD on several occasions and hears about her from FIL & MIL.

Basically, most of the advice here is correct (not that I doubted it) and that is that mum & dad are boss (which was never in question) and that's a fact of life. Their learning and acceptance of this fact helps them understand the rules of the outside world.

But be fair. If you do something that they've been told off for and they tell you off (correctly), you apologise in the same way you'd expect them to. But sometimes you have to explain that mums & dad's can do it but DD or DS will have to wait until they're bigger (child psychologist's words) before they can do it too.

Also she did say that DD was bright & precocious (in the nice sense of the word - I hope!) and was probably at that stage a little earlier than most.

So now I know I'm being fair by just telling DD that she'll have to wait until she's bigger before she can do everything like us and I'm not just palming her off with a "because" instead of a proper answer.

Thanks for everyone's advice - even those who told me off for not putting her to bed at a specific time (which I do and agree is necessary!).

OP posts:
chicaguapa · 26/02/2004 09:28

Just wanted to add that bedtime and problems getting her off to sleep wasn't the reason behind my question. It's her questioning at other times of the day. Bedtime is a separate issue entirely and I know she's just playing up when that happens.

OP posts:
Twinkie · 26/02/2004 09:45

Chica - we use 'when you can drive' as an answer for when can I do things - DD now knows that she will be able to wear bright coloured nail poish, wear deoderant, say bloody and chew gum when she can drive (she also knows that this is when she can drink VODKA - but thats one I don't like to publicise and of course will terach her that she can chew gum and drive at the same time but not drink vodka and drive )

Janh · 26/02/2004 09:48

"If you do something that they've been told off for and they tell you off (correctly), you apologise in the same way you'd expect them to."

That rather depends what it is - are you in the habit of leaving your toys lying around or making a mess of your dinner?

Janh · 26/02/2004 09:49

And, and, and, see, "bigger" is OK!!!! So nur.

(Now need someone bigger to come along and tell me to grow up.)

Codandchips · 26/02/2004 09:56

I dont let mine say no to me.

Janh · 26/02/2004 10:00

ooh, coddy, I was looking for you yesterday - alibubbles' DD is going to uni in Paris in the autumn and hopes to find a family with children to board with and help out with - I wondered if your friend with the Japanese wife and the twins might be interested? It's this thread.

Codandchips · 26/02/2004 10:05

I will tell them.
off to pg.

how thought ful you are.

Codandchips · 26/02/2004 10:05

off to playgroup obv, not pregnancy!

Codandchips · 26/02/2004 10:06

janh you can laways e mailme through br she has my e dress.

are you in the slim club? (not offence if not)

roisin · 26/02/2004 13:22

Twinkie - I think I shall start using your "when you can drive" phrase ... my dss know that they can have a pet, stay up late, and have packed lunches "when they are 14" - which suddenly doesn't seem so far off as it used to!

sobernow · 26/02/2004 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amber3 · 17/10/2004 02:01

A message to all parents who concider spanking as education.
No matter what happens during the upbringing of a child - NEVER HIT, NEVER SPANK, NEVER SHOW OUT-OF-CONTROL BEHAVIOR; children will learn that violence solves problems if you do (monkey see, monkey do). If you hit them, and they still, for some reason look up to you, they will copy your behavior.
But spanking may also disorient them, and they are likely to disrespect you for it.
Some parents subconsciously spank to "get back" (so to speak) at their own parents, who might have hit them when they swore, or did things they didn't know better than doing...
You have to be patient and give the child reason to respect and admire you for your actions. This does not mean that you should spoil them by any means, or let them do as they please in any situation.
It is especially inhumane to spank a child for making a mistake - something you had not warned them about in advance... They should not be expected to know what you do - they don't have much life experience, and their first experiences should not include having their skin hit red by people they are supposed to respect.
You have to be able to explain and educate your child verbally - it's only human nature to show obstinacy at a young age, and it has been proven (over and over again), that such behavior cannot be spanked away.
Children must be listened to, and understood properly by their parents. They cannot be physically forced to think certain ways, and expected to grow up to be individuals with thoughts of their own.

Spanking has been banned by law in most of Europe, and since earlier this year, in Canada as well.
Are you aware that it's still OK by law (even suggested) for teachers to spank, cane and paddle kids in schools in 22 US states? There HAS to be a change to this! In Italy, this has been banned since 1865, and in Finland since 1890. The activity in the home was banned by law in Sweden in 1978.
In the US spanking at home is illegal in ONE state...
The US is a very religious country, and the bible, which hasn?t been much updated in 2000 years, suggests for people to spank their children, and for children to always accept their parent, since they ?know best??well, the world is changing, and HAS changed. A lot of people today know and UNDERSTAND that there are lots of incompetent parents, and that hitting will not solve a problem. It might seem to for the moment, but may, and will on some level, effect a child (a grown up child) psychologically in retrospect.
Circus animals are physically punished when taught tricks and "manners" - people should NOT be. People should be allowed to think, and partly learn of their own.

Parents in the US, more than other parts of the world, tend to follow certain quotes from the bible on parenting, but times are changing, and the bible is not being updated. This is a serious issue, people. Were you to move to Germany and spanked your child, you can count on being arrested. Same thing in Denmark. Same thing in Norway, Finland, Italy, Austria, Israel, Latvia, Cyprus...
There are passages in the bible that speak out AGAINST spanking as well... "Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)." is a good example of this...

Recently doctors have noticed a disease (causing an inflammation in the intestine) which strikes adults who have been abused on different degrees as children...all people are different, some psychologically stronger than others, meaning that this disease can strike adults who subconsciously bear the memory of being spanked as abusive.
Smacking a child is a very LIGH form of abuse, hitting them with a belt or a cane is a HEAVY form of abuse.
No one becomes wiser (just like that) from having their butt smacked - people learn from experience. If they are forced they will become insecure.

We must not think of our children as sinister creatures living for ruining the little piece we get in our lives after work and school. Before having entered the life of parenthood, we may have been used to getting that time for relaxing, but when entering parenthood we must accept saying goodbye to big part of that piece.
We must love our children and understand that these people are the future of both us, and our grandchildren.
If you want to be a parent you must prepare yourself for being patient and understanding - the child should not live in fear by your or anyone else's demand.

Love your children, and think of ANYTHING but hitting (thus humiliating) them when their behavior is highly improper, and you may lose your temper.
Use your imagination - punishments can be bitter-sweet. It can be fun AND educational. You can make them clean their rooms (or do some of your daily chores) when they stubbornly disobey things they SHOULD and are INCLINED to do.
I have forbidden TV, I have withdrawn allowances and toys, I have given orders on cleaning their rooms, I have asked them to clean up possible messes that have been made, at needed times I have raised my voice (without sounding threatening) to let them know I've meant business and that they may have hurt my feelings by disobeying or done something they didn't understand the consequences of, and I have always explained to my children WHY some things should be done, and WHY some things should not be done BEFORE they have had the opportunity to make a mistake. Sometimes they have done wrong out of curiosity, and then there has been an educational discussion. It is natural for children to forget things what they are being told - it is not a disorder. A child's memory and ability to pay attention evolves a lot generally around the age of 8 (depending on the nature of the person this age varies).

Sometimes children can drive you mad (I know much about this,) and to put them in line we may occasionally grab an arm in anger or frustration, but don't undress their pants and smack their rears! They are defenceless and in a process of developing all their senses - give them reason to look up to you and admire your actions!

I love my children. Two of them are grown up now. They have never been spanked, and they are doing very well. They teach me a lot, and I admire them.
One of them just had a baby girl

Last...I want to quote Boris Sidis, from a lecture on the abuse of the fear instinct in early education in Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 1919:
"As long as the child will be trained not by love, but by fear, so long will humanity live not by justice, but by force. As long as the child will be ruled by the educator?s threat and by the father?s rod, so long will mankind be dominated by the policeman?s club, by fear of jail, and by panic of invasion by armies and navies.?

(this text can be found on the educational and recommended homepage of "project NoSpank")

Here is a link to a VERY educational passage of a speech by Astrid Lindgren for parents to read: www.atlc.org/Resources/never_violence.php

Thank you all for your time.

Sincerely,
Proud and loving Grandma' Amber

duvet · 17/10/2004 20:06

amber3 from what you said I dont think you've understood that verse you quoted from proverbs I think you need to read it again and study it out.

acer · 17/10/2004 20:08

Amber3 - I think you have a problem, why do you keep preaching the same thing on so many threads? Makes me think hat you are not serious

stupidgirl · 17/10/2004 20:11

That came out of nowhere (puzzled smiley)

acer · 17/10/2004 20:12

Brilliant idea about the egg timer, I'm going to try that!

Nic04 · 18/10/2004 10:14

Er... the bible actually promotes discipline, amber3.

Folly (foolishness) is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him. (Proverbs 22:15)

Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. (Proverbs 23:13-14)

As duvet said, I don't think you've understood it properly.

Nic04 · 18/10/2004 10:16

Not wanting to start up a bible debate here (!!!), just simply pointing out to amber3 that her understanding of the verse isn't quite right.