How do you teach them that Mummy's the boss?

[chicaguapa]

My dd is 2.5 and genuinely seems to think that she has as much right to make decisions as me and my dh.

She tells us not to do things like talk on the phone or she'll switch the TV off when she doesn't want us to watch it anymore (we hardly watch it anyway!). If we override her (because we're the parents after all) it really really looks like we're being naughty in the same way as if she's been told not to do something and then she goes ahead and does it anyway.

She's not copying our behaviour per se as we don't switch the TV off etc but she does tell us to "Come back" when we walk out her bedroom like we do when she runs off in the park.

It's a bit difficult to explain as the behaviour just comes across as a normal bossy 2 yo. She's a really good girl and generally very obedient which I hope we can owe to how consistent we've been with discipline whilst being relaxed at the same time ie only saying NO when it's dangerous or a definite no no instead of saying no all the time so that they switch off.

I've always tried to be fair when bringing her up and not wanting to give her mixed signals etc. I think she's not just being naughty and that what's happening at the moment is confusing her as she can't understand why we get to do what we want and make decisions final and she can't.

I'm probably reading too much into it which is probably because I'm really interested in child psychology but I'm loathe to start telling her that we get to do what we want because we're bigger and older etc.

Any ideas? Should children understand who's got authority automatically through the parents behaviour or is there some other way to tackle this problem?

I think you are reading too much into it saying she does not understand that there is a different set of rules for you - she is testing you - being a 2 year old - just plug away be firm and say right if you don't go to sleep now I am going to take X away from you (insert toy/doll she really likes playing with) or say right we won't do X tomorrow.

As for who is in charge I did not realise yours is so little - and I would go for because I am your mother and I make the rules - blunt may sound mean but she has to understand this not in the least because for her safety she has to do as you say.

But I do not agree one bit that she does not understand that there are rules for her and rules for me - she is just being 2.

As for the not wanting to lay down the law - as a parent you have to and they have to realise that they must obey you - she may question when she has to go to bed and you not want to be firm with that but when it comes to not touching a kettle of boiling water thats a different matter and there is no room for discussion - she is a child and must do as you say for her security and safety.

What time does she wake up in the morning? Does she still have a daytime nap?

Whatever you do, don't get into a philosophical debate with her. She's only two and she needs to sleep. There's no debate to be had.

Twinkie is SO right and she is testing you.

This is all about boundary testing, isn't it? My youngest is that way inclined and the only way we have resolved it is by having clear rules and standing firm. As a result, she's much happier and more secure because she knows where the limits lie. Children can be very overwhelmed by their own power and emotions.

I don't think it's a matter of being bigger and older. It's that parents have more experience and judgement about issues and they have different needs, say to watch tv at 9.30pm. A child can be offered the choice of sitting quietly at 9.30pm while mummy and daddy watch tv or they can go to bed. Some of it is to do with learning about behaviour in society, such as the phone. A child has to learn that sometimes a parent must do something like use the phone, say to call the doctor, and for those couple of minutes, the call takes priority. Having rules and giving explanations definitely worked for us. Good luck!

She wakes up at 8am and doesn't have a nap - we cut that out a few months ago to help improve bedtimes - which has worked to an extent! It's the odd night that's a problem. They're not all like last night!

With regards to understanding concepts etc, this is a really recent thing and I do think she's beginning to question the 'unfairness' of it which is why I'm eager to nip it in the bud pdq.

If I can find a 'fair' way to drive home the point that adults are in charge (this was never in doubt - the problem is how to convey that to a child) I'd like to do it sooner rather than later.

She probably sounds like a real brat but she's usually very good. She just responds better to explanations rather than just NO and BECAUSE! Both me and DH are very logical people and I just want a logical way of explaining why what we say is the rule and she can't dictate them as I feel she'd respond to that better than constant battles of will.

Oops, I've crossed with lots of similar posts, sorry for being repetitive!

I would definitely try to get a grip on this problem. I'm not sure its a case of her believing she has the same boundaries as you. More a case of her pushing her boundaries (and you) as far as she can. If she were mine I would ensure that she did not reach the TV to get the chance to turn it off before I was marching her back up the stairs as described by twiglett.

DS has just turned 3 and has started questioning things a lot more but at 2.5 it was much more a case of just pushing boundaries and seeing the response.

my DH has always beleived in "explaining" rather than just "telling" but he keeps in short and sweet.
ie: You need to go to sleep now so you are not tired in the morning and can enjoy xxxx".
He then does no further negoticating. So a simple explanation may work but do not get caught up in explaning, justifying, procrastinating etc that all 2 and 3 year olds are masters of!!

But, suedonim, "bigger and older" means something to a 2-yr-old - "wiser, more mature and experienced in the ways of the world, my child" is a bit subtle for them!

When they are bigger and older themselves the definition can be refined somewhat, for the sake of clarity and harmony, but I think you have to speak plainly (and briefly!) to get your message across at this age.

I like your 9.30 choice - either watch TV quietly with us or go to bed - I'm wondering though if she is either not ready for bed then, or else possibly over-tired.

It's trying to balance not giving them too much attention when they're pushing their (or your!) boundaries ie repeatedly taking them back upstairs when they keep getting out of bed and ignoring the bad behaviour, isn't it?

Bozza, how do you deal with the questions at 3?

sorry, chicaguapa, your post wasn't there then!

If 9.30 is a good bedtime for her and she should be ready to go then yes, she is just trying it on, and one of the many excellent strategies proposed below should do the trick. Camping outside her door would probably be the most effective, but a bit boring for you.

I personally don't have battles of wills with my son, but I also don't burden him with incomprehensible philosophical debates (save those for Mumsnet ) I work with him cooperatively, but when it really matters, what I say goes, and then I rely on distraction techniques to defuse any potential battle. Eg it's time to get out of the bath. Ds loves his bath, but it's nearly bed time and my back aches and I want a glass of wine. If he's having a lovely game, I will signal the game will soon come to an end, but we'll play a little bit longer as it is such fun. Then I will tell him again that we will finish the game soon and get out of the bath.. Then I ask him to give me the bowl we are playing with so we can put it away until tomorrow. He may not like this, but I do it. Then I say, 'I'm going to lift out up into the sky now!" I take him out of the bath and his feet kick in protest, so I bundle him in towels, drape in over his head and say, "Where is ds? Where can he be? Oh there he is" or whatever game, activity or change of scene will amuse him. What I DON'T do is let him sit in the bath until 10pm. Children simply don't know what is best for them and part of being a parent is deciding for them, but with love, empathy and flexibility. I never say 'Because" to my ds 2.5, we just don't have those discussions yet. I parent in a way that seems to avoid them (and no he's not thick!). I do explain, but in specific, not general terms, ie "We have to go to the supermarket to buy food for our tea." And I might well also bribe him with the idea of a Starbucks muffin as his reward for doing something he hates. I of course, get to eat most of said muffin

Is this too advanced for a 2.5 year old in terms of explanation;

You have to do what mummy and daddy say sometimes because we are adults, and in general, adults are better at making decisions than children. This is because adults have lived for a long time and come across lots of different situations. Also adults were once children, whereas children have never been adults - so it stands to reason that we know a bit more about life and why rules are important. When you have lived for a long time as we have, you will be able to make all your decisions for yourself but for the time being you need to understand that mummy and daddy know best sometimes. If we do say 'no' to you or make a decision that you don't feel happy with, please try to understand and trust us - we only ever try to do what is best.

I'm probably talking a load of twaddle, and maybe you need to be at least 5 to understand all of that - but you did ask for a fair way to drive home the message that parents are in charge.

Personally I would say 'Because I'm the mummy - that's why!'...I know you want to avoid that apparently 'arbitrary' imposition of power, but although your daughter sounds very bright and precocious, I think you are crediting her with too much sophistication to hope that she will be able to understand anything more involved than that. Probably from what I have written above its demonstrated that you can't really expect a 2.5 year old to understand the moral position for parents being in charge - at that age they just have to accept it and lump it I think!

You take her upstairs without any conversation apart from 'it's bedtime. You must go to sleep now' delivered in a boring voice. Better still you are waiting outside her room to say the same thing. When ds protests I say, come on, here's piggy he wants to have a cuddle and go to sleep with you. You can look at a book while you lie down. Night night." and after that, no more conversation.

I think parenting small children is basically dog training. Reward the good, ignore the bad where possible, be boringly consistent in what you expect. Be loving.

Also, I've just remembered from the dim and distant past, there can be an element of "Mummy and Daddy are Having a Life Without Me!!!!" That's a harder one to deal with - just try being very very boring at bedtime and not turn the TV on in the first place until she's asleep.

How do you ignore the bad when the bad involves bodily hauling your kicking, screaming 3 yo out of his brother's classroom every morning? Sigh. If only it were like dog training - I could put a lead on him and send him to obedience classes

aloha did say ignore where possible!

Poor you, soupie. DS2 wants to stay and have fun, presumably?

Sadly, all of DS2s bad behaviour tends to be in non-ignorable situations. I'm coming to the conclusion that he's uncontrollable (Will go and start his own personal thread later rather than hijack this one).

He used to behave in a similar fashion when DS1 was at nursery and he wasn't. He was under 2 at that point so easier to remove from the situation. Now I seem to have "Bad Parent" tatooed on my forehead!

I'm still working on the questioning bit at the moment becasue it has developed fairly recently. Wouldn't answer questions at bedtime though. If it was bedtime though and would follow the approach described by others.

Aloha I love it when people say things like that about me.

From the sounds of it your DD sounds as though she needs more sleep - I would make her bedtime and hour earlier and so she has her little tantrum and it does not disturb what would be her actual bedtime IYKWIM. And as for her playing up just keep saying - No, you are going to go to sleep now it is your bedtime - do not let her piss you off, do not show any signs of being cross or agitated just stay calm (whilst fuming inside) and keep at it - it works and she will realise that she can scream the house down or trash her room but she is not coming out of it and will stay in her room come what may.

It may also be an idea/experiment to take the stairgate down - DD has not had one since she could walk - no need really there was one at the top of the stairs and her room then did not become somewhere where she is shut away (figaratively speaking!!), she also did not have toys in her room until very recently and only went in her room to sleep - she soon got the message!!

Yep you can argue/discuss with a child but there are some situations that this is not viable and it is a case of do it now for their safety - they have to understand that you are in charge - thats it zippidy zip end of story

She definitely needs more sleep! Both me and my DH are terrible sleepers and take ages to go off at night. I have very clear memories of being very young and battling not to go to bed as I hated lying in a dark room just staring at the ceiling. Things will be easier for her in that sense when she can read on her own.

She's also definitely playing us up and pushing our boundaries. And definitely plays up more when we show we're getting p*ssed off.

Anyway, the sleeping issue is an aside and a whole new thread which will have no doubt been covered countless times. I'm resigned to a lifetime of struggles at bedtime!

Our parenting technique is very similar to Aloha's but we seemed to have fallen into a trap of negotiation! If any of you have been watching Child of our Time, it's quite similar to the little boy Paris with the mum who has no arms or legs (for want of a better way to put it). She says that she gives him a fair amount of freedom but has to negotiate everything!

We try to combine strict rules and routines with a relaxed attidude. ie she can take her toys anywhere in the house and be messy but we have to tidy them away together before tea time - non-negotiable. But you still end up negotiating!

She might actually be better having a nap again for a bit - if she's overtired at bedtime it might be stopping her from sleeping. My DD2 is not a good sleeper and when she was little, if she went past the point where she should have gone to sleep, she just couldn't - having an afternoon nap used to help her a lot. You could try it? Maybe not even every day, just now and again.

Janh, I didn't mean telling the child that parents are 'wiser, more mature and experienced' etc, just that that is how parents perhaps should regard themselves and not think of themselves as big bad bogey men.

LOL at 'Mummy and Daddy are Having a Life Without Me!!!!' When I was very young I remember making an awful fuss about my parents having 'supper' at around 9pm. One evening mum let me join in. They were sitting there with a cup of tea and a Rich Tea biscuit each - I was sooooo disappointed!!