DS 4.25 has assessment today for his behaviour. Vent in progress.

[windypops]

Brief history. The last 3 months of last yr, I was very unwell and ended up in hospital several time having op's etc etc. During this time DS behaviour turned and he played up a lot more, this was both at home and at playschool. Since being well about xmas, Ds has settled down at home and gone back to the kind/caring/helpful/affectionate child that he was before I had my problems, but apparantly his behaviour at playschool has not settled down.

The put him on report about the time it all started, and they have called the head-psycologist in today to assess him.

They have stressed all along that his behaviour is not usually aggressive towards the other children, and it more of a case that he get angry and bottles it up and he will emplode.

I got their observation reports yesterday and it annoyed me a lot, there was about 12 cases of things they had noticed, ok a few made me concerned, but to me it was like ok this women is coming in next week lets notice little things.

I have things like, all the other children walked into playgroup, but DS Ran.

He was gluing something and it wouldn't stick down, do he threw it on the table and huffed away. (is it just my son then that gets frustrated?).

DS hit under the table while his best friend came in and he jumped up and said boo!!!.

They made no comment in the report that I was ill, and also made a comment of one occasion when DS told them to leave him alone he doesn't want to be touched (this was when they touched his arm) they told me this at the time and then said to me that I was probably because he had a cold and wasn't very well (this not mentioned in the report either).

another occasion was that he wanted a certain book at group reading time, and he was not allowed it as the teacher was reading one, they told his twice to sit down, and in the end he got up and got his book and they let him read it. Ds likes firm control and needs to know where the boundaries are.

My ds is not no angel but I certainly know lots worse, and the child they are distribing is not the boy I have at home.

Just wondered really if anyone else had been assessed and what I am likely to expect etc etc.
because I am a little worried, but mostly angry because to me 75% of his reports to me are typical boy behaviour, ie standing in someones way. he is so tall for his age people cant believe he is not at school, wonder if that has something to do with it.

Honest advice as always.

DS HID under the table and not HIT

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I hope you are feeling better- i understand the way you feel totally- i know what it's like to have every action of your child 'pickedup' whilst other kids do worse and get away with it.

I agree that the things that the nursery said are very trivial- the only way i would say different is if it were happinging day in and day out- hiding under a table and saying boo are hardly criminal offences!

My only concern is when he feels the need to withdraw away from the group- the book incident- and that they 'just let him'.

The 'not like being touched' is to me NOT a problem unless he feels like that ALL the time.

I have 3 boys 2 are autistic- to them the things you mention happen EVEY day ALL day....so ds1 hates being touched gently- he needs firmness- so at 4- 5 yers he was very physical to others- because he 'assumemed ' they liked 'firmness' to. My ds2 hates 'carpet time' at school....finds sitting near others very hard- a cushion/chair gives him a boundary

My point being that in my experience there can indeed be NO 'problem' ie NO LABEL REQUIRED ....and the psychologist WILL pock that up...You have been through a hard few months and things do take time to 'get back to norMAL' at playschool.

However 'if' there were a 'problem' that needs further investigation then as with my boys there would be 'the same behaviours happening every day in some way or form'

I have no experience of a psycologist at playschool level- but assume you will get a detailed report- and i expect he will ask you about pregnacy/birth/pre-playschool and that is where you will be able to mention your illness- as separation from a parent (especially a mum- no offence you dads reading this!!) IS traumatic and could cause behaviours......

Hope i have helped- it's hard as i have autistic boys to 'see' the 'normal' world!!! I don't want to 'put ideas' in your head- but nonetheless i can identify with your anger/frustration/and love of your child- and that is regardless of 'what the problem is'!

It sounds to me like they are not very good at managing behaviour and seem unwilling to do so. To me his behaviour sounds only slightly "active" and if they can't manage that, they are going to have a hell of a time with a class full of kids whose behaviour develops and changes all the time. How experienced is his teacher? Maybe she doesn't like him as he doesn't conform so easily as the others (sorry to suggest this). I don't know if they have ignored your illness and hospital stays deliberately. Some assessments certainly focus SOLELY on the child and do not take into account other factors but this may not be a case of that, they're just not willing to look at the big picture. Hope its gets sorted out, maybe the Psychologist visiting is good as they might get a kick up the a#se!

Thanks for all who replied.

He has a keyworker and then there is the manager type person. I always seem to get conflicting information, the owner seems to imply the situation was worse than what it was and the keyworker (who is very nice) tells me what happened and it doesn't seem as bad. Example was being the scissor incident I posted about on another thread, I was informed by the manager, that Ds had cut a girls ear with a pair of scissors and the father had gone mad. The truth was he was playing with his girlfriend and wanted to cut her ear, she must have turned round and he caught her, the dad was annoyed that this was mentioned as an afterthought after they mentioned the girl had been a little naughty.
the keyworker I would say would have 10 years experience and the owner 30, the old school 'matter of fact type'.

I have hand written comments on the bottom on their reports, so when the lady comes to read them, she will know my views.

Another one of there issues was that he flaps his arms, he has done this since he was 6 months old when he is excitable.

The incidents they have drawn attention to seem fairly trivial to me. As MrsF said, there would only be a problem with not liking to be touched if he were like that ALL THE TIME.

It sounds as though they don't have a lot of experience with children who don't constantly do what everyone else does - which is probably why they let him go off and read the other book.

Yes ds1 (who is autistic) does run when everyone else walks BUT I'm as certain as I can be that he would do this even if he were 'normal'. It sounds like typical behaviour to me.

A proper assessment would look into his history and take your illness into consideration.

It sounds to me as though this has come about through inexperience. I hope it all goes well for you and that you get the chance to say "I told you so!"

Ooops! Posts crossed!

Thanks.

Like I said I cant get my head around it, This morning he woke at 6.30am (aghhh) and today has been really helpful, not played with his toys and decided he wanted to help me with housework, he has tidied his room (without asking) said it was one less room for me to do, he's sorted washing and given me lots of kisses and told me he loves me at least 5 times. Only once I had to tell him off and that was because he was bouncing on the computer chair and the monitor was jigging about. now I could focus on that, but I don't, I focus on all the good things he has done, and think your right about lack of experience as they wouldn't have lot him read his book, he did that once and I bet he continues to do it.

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twiglett

Thats why I am finding this so hard, because at home he is not like at playschool. He is the only child, but I often meet with friends who have kids, and they usually play nicely, have to pull them apart now and again, but thats normal.

I am very firm with him and if he mis-behaves he gets sent to the stairs, and then if he does it again his room and so on, he soon catches on and toes the line. I do not smack him anymore as found that didn't help and probably more my frustration. Some of the teachers there are strict and some are not, and on the report it was teacher, wish it would have specified which one as I can bet it was the softer one who he had trouble complying with.

no where nearly as bad as I thought, Basically the play-school need to be firmer in the dealings with him, eg of something that happened today, he had 10 jumps on the trampoline and it was someone elses go, and he didn't want to get off, so the teacher let him have another 10 quickly, but he still didn't get off. I told them he should have been been taken off after the first 10. Nothing at the moment that I can do at home.

windypops, is it an option to put him in another nursery? They sound like they don't get him at all and he sounds like a wonderful little boy. My ds won't walk, only runs. We think it's delightful. When I was a child, I has so much extra energy that I did jumping jacks everywhere (couldn't stand still). It didn't stop me from being one of the top students in the country and going on to get 3 degrees. And funnily enough, I'm not big on being touched by strangers. In fact my mother claims that I wouldn't let her hold me as a newborn and would push her away. I didn't start sitting in her lap until I was a teenager. And why on earth can't he read the book that he wants to read as long as he's not disturbing the other children. At least he's interested in reading! 4 is really a little early for expecting a child to be an uncomplaining sheep. And luckily it sounds like your wonderful son has a mind of his own. I think you should encourage him (without spoiling him) to not be a follower and find him a school that does the same.

Windypops, I haven't got much time now but will post again a bit later. I'm in Australia but recently had an experience with ds where I opted to take him out of the kindergarten he was in, and put him into another one. The second one has been a lot better and has a completely different attitude to him than the first one. (He will be turning 4 soon). It's my belief that the woman who ran the first one was a bit of a 'control freak' who wanted all the children to conform to her wishes as soon as possible, even to the detriment of the child. I was very fortunate to be able to place him into another centre, as kindergarten places are hard to get if you haven't had your name on a waiting list. I'm just so glad I did it... will post more later.

windypops, only time for a quick message but I had a near identical experience to you when my youngest son was in nursery. If you want, read the thread I started called 'should I trust my own judgement'

In a nutshell, my son aged just over 3 was considered beyond normal limits for liveliness and was also thought to be worryinging unresponsive, so I was told by nursery staff - a judegment made 2 weeks after he joied and one I did not agree with. I put him through the beginnings of an assessment process, then the staff's interest petered out - my son appeared to be settling anyway. To cut a long story short, he left with a good report and so far had settled without problems in school - this is his first term so fingers crossed.

windypops....any news???

Sorry missed this.

Ds has a further assessment on the Monday after Easter.

TBH It is really getting to me now and I have even started watching him and analazing everything the poor little thing does. I am hoping the easter break will give him a break and go back nice and calm. I am awake nights thinking about it, one moment I am annoyed with it because he is fine at home and his behaviour is only bad there, and the other I am a worrying mother worrying that there might be something wrong with him. My gut reaction is that surely if something was wrong, he would be like it someone else other than at pre-school.

I only got the report from his first assessment just before we broke up for Easter, and the main concerns was that he had one friend who he was possessive over and wanted him to sit next to him all the time, which friend was happy to do, and that at carpet time he would often make noises and walk off.

This first week off DS has been a delight at home, very helpful. He seems I am in the shower and will get a towel ready for me etc etc. He has wanted to spend a lot of time on the computer (learning land and cbeebies) and also has wanted to do matching puzzles and stuff.

Funniest moment was when we were in the garden and I mentioned that 2 birds were making a lot of noise and he replied, "good effort mummy, they are birds, but they are in fact seagulls, well done anyway". A budding ornithologist in that making I think.

sorry you are at that analysing everything stage. It's horrible horrible horrible and I really do sympathise. The good thing about having the assessments is that you will get some answers one way or another- and even unwanted answers are better than the horrible "is he isn't he" thoughts.

I have to sya that nothing you have written has set off big alarm bells in me. Usually if there is a problem then mother is more aware of it that the nursery- so do have the confidence to trust your own judgement. I would say it was very common for a child of his age to be possessive over certain friends- and to find carpet time difficult.

Hope the next assessment goes well.

Thanks Jimjams.

My gut reaction is that he probably has trouble concentrating when at playschool with the younger kids running about and playing while they have to sit down. I have no doubt about his ability and though like I said that if there was a major problem, I would have picked up on it.

windypops, just caught this - just wanted to say I too think you would know if there was something very different about your son. I trusted my gut instinct and so far I have been right in doing so. IME lots of little children don't sit and listen at carpet time.

Windypops,

don't ever lose sight of the fact that you have a fantastic, loving son . From what you've written he also sounds to be very bright - have you ever considered that he might be bored at Play School?

Like the others have said trust your instincts.

I had a completely opposite experience with my DS at nursery. He wouldn't join in with group activities, hid under tables when the room was crowded and became very disruptive under the pressure of meal times. The special needs teacher identified to me that he could be Dyspraxic and put me in touch with a therapist. The treatment DS had was at times fantastically positive but at others very challenging - but we were warned what to expect. The Nursery were unbelievably supportive even though they bore the brunt of the challenging behaviour - they never judged and were always positive towards him. So the right care is out there!
My instincts had told me that there was something wrong - like your son he is an only child and was generally very good at home. But...I couldn't take him to birthday parties, he'd sit on my knee all afternoon; or the cinema, the mention of the word made him hysterical; supermarket shopping would send him hyper. Also his immune system was very poor. Basically his body was producing too much adrenelin in situations which he considered frightening.
Now he is at school it is a completely different story. Even though I went out of my way to explain the situation and how when we are in a treatment phase and literally 're-programming his brain' that his behaviour could be difficult they insisted that the educational psychologist assess him - of course by the time his slot came around he had reverted to 'normal behavour'.

Its horrible to think that someone is judging your child and ultimately you. You are the expert about your child - not them.

Big Hug.

I agree that you would probably know if there was something wrong BUT the problem is that other people keep telling you not to be silly, you're imagining it etc so it gets very confusing. My advice would be to ignore all those platitiudes and think really hard about what YOU believe. Its very hard though when you're just not sure......

Yes agree with Davros. I suspected autism from the age of 17 months- and I was told not to be silly by so many people for the next year and a half. "oh no he can't be autistic he's far to affectionate, and look at him smiling" (durr- what can autistic people not smile?) It got so bad I felt guilty reading anything about autism and used to hide books I'd borrowed from the library under my bed.

That's what I meant in the earlier message by saying it's good he's being assessed. Once you get to the analysing everything stage you need it. Wth ds1 although I suspected autism I was never sure, but all the platitudes did was make me feel ok for a max of a day when I'd have the horrible gnawing in my stomach again.

With ds2- despite his slow start in speech- I never worried about him- I never had any doubt that he was fine (except for the week following his 1st birthday - until he did his first point at 12 months and 1 week). So although he's on a SALT list I've never had that awful gnawing feeling.

Having a good and thorough assessment can sort out those worries.

Thanks again for your kind words.

Before the word 'problem' was mentioned, I was 99.9999999% certain that the problem lied with the way the pre-school handled him (not firm enough).

I do have friend/family saying don't be silly he is fine, and although my gut instinct was telling me that nothing is wrong, I have started to doubt myself and watch DS like a hawk and analize everything he does. I am trying not to, but I cant help it. I am worrying that I might be one of those 'nothing wrong with my child' mothers. (TBH I would be one of those people who would doubt my own name should I ever be on millionaire).

I did do the autism test that I found on another thread and it came out no problem.

I cant get my head off the fact that his behaviour became a problem both at home and at school after the complication I had with a routine op where poor DS saw me collapse on the floor and almost hemorrage (sp) to death and was rushed to hospital. Of course this freaked him out, but as soona s I was home his behaviour settled at home and not at school.

It is good to talk here, as like I said friend and family dismiss things and say dont be daft etc etc.

Ds has been a joy to be with this past fortnight, really enjoyed his company, he has even asked to do puzzles and that similar to ones he does at pre-school and finished them so quickly I made them harder and he did them ok. So at the moment I have my 'i think he is bored' head on, but at least we these assessments I should know one way or another.

Joys of being a mother

gosh- he had pretty major trauma! Do the assessment people know about that incident. I think its important!

Just like to add windypops going through similar thing with my DS. In the end you don't know what do and what advice to take. I'm just waiting for the assessments to get underway. So far they have said to me, 'yes' there is somthing wrong with him but we don't know what it is. They can't put their finger on it- really helps of course.
Chocotrain this does sound similar to my DS, that was interesting to read.

Goodluck Windypops you are not alone!! larsxx