My child is a thief and a liar.

[toffeesponge]

He is 8. Since reception he has helped himself to food (cooking chocolate, snacks, sweets that may or usually have not been bought for him, my slimfast bars ffs.) I got sick of this so have been hiding the snacks in my room. Today dh went to get the sweets I had allowed the children to buy the other day. Half of ds1's bag was missing. DS1 said he hid them under the tv cabinet and it ripped open when he took them out. This doesn't make sense but is irrelevant. DS2 (the taker) said he hadn't taken any and DS1 said he hadn't had any. We weighed the bag half were missing. Eventually DS2 admitted to taking one then admitted to taking all of the missing ones.

Why would I take what isn't mine he always asks.

My kids do not have a lot of sweets but they get treats aplenty so no need for him to steal. He gets well fed. He says he doesn't know why he takes things and promises he won't again. And he does.

This is not any argument about how it is his house and he shouldn't have to ask to have a food and how you let your children help themselves. This is about a child taking someone elses sweets and then lying about it.

Good ideas, Sparkly. I still come back to not liking the lying so I need to sort that out in my head.

my children raid the biscuit tin and fridge in the morning, I am certain of that but I really don't know what they have as I am not usually up! I do know we run out of biscuits and cheese strings on a regular basis though.

I really don't have an issue with this as firstly they are not over weight and secondly they seem to self regulate really well.

I used to have to ask for everything as a child and the answer was mostly no so I used to sneak food and now have a difficult relationship with food as an adult. I don't want that for my children.

I used to steal food too - but I haven't had any issues over food* since that, so it doesn't necessarily lead to them. I was a fussy eater: I didn't like a lot of what my mum cooked. So I used to steal what I did like to eat, and lied by denying it was me.

I am also now very upright - I give back the overayment if I get given too much change.

Don't give up on him, and don't label him - just love him, and see if you can find out why he steals. I did it, I think, because I just like to eat certain foods, and not others. I still do, but I can cook what I like for myself now.

*Maybe I do still an issue over food - it's just labelled (by me...) as being a gourmet!

I understand about the lying. If it's any consolation, lying to parents is developmentally important- have a look at some of the articles and discussions here

One way to look at it is that he's doing it (lying) because he's intelligent enough to be able to predict your reaction and empathetic enough to not want you to FEEL bad. He still wants your approval. These are all good things, you can't be doing that badly. Enjoy the muffins

Oh my DCs get up in the morning and eat stuff I would normally say "not until after breakfast" to.

That's one of the good things about getting up before your parents isn't it?

I had to ask for everything, even a glass of water when I was growing up, I hated it tbh so I am pretty relaxed. I hate the idea of food being a treat, I also hate the idea of teaching children about "bad" food so mine can help themselves to whatever is in the cupboards/fridge.

They don't actually eat that much anyway tbh, a couple of biscuits or a piece of toast or a packet of crisps. So it doesn't worry me, they eat a decent dinner and all 3 do a huge amount of sport.

My ds1 would have people worrying, if you see how much he eats, but he is training 6 days a week so it's a high carb diet and a chocolate muffin every day at school for lunch

all my children are really thin! So maybe they are self regulating (I know DD and DS! definitely are) and maybe I need to feed DS2 differently if he can manage "treats" in the morning and then breakfast, cooked lunch at school then dinner at home. Maybe I am not feeding him enough?

I think if you are hungry you will eat what is offered. I am wondering if I am wrong with that as well.

I definitely don't want food issues for my kids and I worry by making them have their fruit before the yogurt/cake/biscuit I am sending them that way.

SparklyBoots - that piece is very very useful and I wish I had read it years ago. I will back right off and see where we end up.

MIL suggested I don't let DS2 come down in the morning (as that is when we think he is taking the stuff though don't know for sure) so that the temptation is not there. I agree it is a good idea but not sure how I can suggest it without him thinking he is being punished. I am sure he has already forgotten about the sweets he took.

"He is now saying he always has to own up to stuff he hasn't done. He said he only took 1 and not half the bag and I made him own up to taking all."

have you considered that this may be true? maybe he does feel he is often forced into saying he has taken stuff he hasn't/
can you be certain his brother isn't using this is a way of taking sweets, knowing that the other will be the one who gets the blame?

regarding the more recent posts...

there are a few things you could try:

getting up at the same time as him!
locking the kitchen door
leaving breakfast things out and telling him to help himself when he gets up in the morning

I wouldnt stop him getting up by his self, it really sends a message that you do not trust him.

Can you not just have things in the house that you are happy for them to eat? I mean, a few biscuits in the grand scheme of things isnt that bad is it? But please dont lock the kitchen door or the cupboards.

I have considered that DS1 is taking stuff to get DS2 into trouble, I would be stupid not too, but I honestly don't think he has taken anything.

DS2 isn't always up at the same time as us, or before, so unless I get up at 5.30 every day he mostly is awake before us.

He knows where all the breakfast cereal and bread is kept. Putting it on the table would be an unnecessary extra job. I would be moving it 4 yards .

Tantrum, I agree. I am not entertaining locking anything. Moving the stuff was to try and help him if he couldn't help it and also to stop the stress of it all. I also couldn't see how to tell him he can't get up without him feeling bad. When he stays at MIL I have discovered he isn't allowed downstairs until MIL has had her second cup of tea but he reads in bed and is fine. Their house, I can't interfere with that.

I honestly don't care that much about him taking crackers or plain biscuits, but he took sweets DS1 paid for and chocolate stuff that is for baking or not something I have bought for DH or I.

I will buy nothing unless I am willing for anyone to eat it.
I will not hide food.
I will not question him if food goes missing.
I will chill out.

I agree with PP who said calling your child a thief and liar for taking sweets in his own home is very strong.
If I have sweets or chocolate in the house I see them as pretty much fair game by anyone - though it's nice if people share, and I'd certainly expect and encourage some reasonable sharing with others that are around at the time.
We don't have sweets often though, chocolate a little more often but it's not usually around long !

• But I know I'm as bad as them, and have been known to pinch bits of their Easter eggs when not eaten promptly . But thing is I see this all as quite normal and it's never been a problem for any of us, apart from in the very short term as in "Hey, can I have some ?"

Good luck toffee - believe in your DC, I'm sure they're good kids really ?

Again, I will say I didn't call HIM a liar and a thief. It was just for the thread title.

I think they are good kids really and I am starting to believe they are normal kids and not being X because I am a crap mum.

Sorry haven't read whole thread but looks like you've taken a lot on board since you started the thread toffee - good for you !

I think you should stop keeping the sugary treats in the house. If they don't get them that often then it wouldn't be a hardship to buy them when you plan to let them eat them.

Can you have a cupboard of food that the DC have access to freely? I had to ask for food, a drink etc when I was younger and it was shit. Fill it with things that you are happy for them to eat when they want, fruit, nuts, yogurt, bread etc.

That's fair enough, obviously he can't help himself to things that are needed or other people's things in the morning.

Would it work if you have a "snack" cupboard so he is trusted to help himself from that, in the mornings or when he gets home or whatever, if you explain that the things in the other cupboards are going to be used?
Apologies if you already do this, it's just ds2 knows that he is more than welcome to eat what he wants from that cupboard but he cannot eat half a slab of fondant icing. he only did that once

This seems a bit strong, or perhaps I am very weak?!

Dd and ds are terrible chocolate thieves. As am I. Dd is particularly greedy and between her and the dog I have to keep the kitchen like a fortress or it'd be stripped bare - with everyone (including the dog) hotly denying any involvement and only cracking under extreme interrogation.

Perhaps instead of hiding the sweets etc, you could have them on clear display. It's more difficult to steal something if it's there for all to see. If, for example, there are four packets of Maltesers on the mantelpiece, it's pretty clear if one goes missing. If one disappears from the back of a cupboard or drawer, you feel you might be mistaken or not notice straightaway.

Certainly all sounds normal to me. I would consider the 4 yard shuffle of breakfast items - just seeing them in front of him might be enough... You could just pop things out on the way up to bed, take 30 seconds, max, AND with the added benefit of sending the message that you think they - and he in particular - are grown up and sensible enough to get their own breakfast. You could always stop if they remain untouched for say, four weeks. If it does work, you can take it in turns giving the task to the children, or require that whoever is up first does it, thereby roping them in and making them feel like a trusted member of the household. Either way, it's 8 weeks max that you are doing it. Could be worth those little confidence payoffs for DS2 in particular...

Kids have nicked food since the dawn of time.
I don't buy biscuits except oatcakes because they just disappear.

If I put 4 packets of Maltesers on our mantelpiece I think everyone would think "great, one each", and they'd be gone that evening !
I just think it's the concept of treats being "stolen" that's basically wrong here.

I remember a teacher asking DS about stealing money from home because he had taken some from home to school in his pocket. I wasn't very happy about her using the word "stealing" as he was young and for me I'd only use that word about something taken outside the home environment really
eg. from school or from a friend. Though obviously especially with older children/teens it could become possible to steal from the home environment.
I would have talked about not taking things from home without asking (and did have that convo with DS)

They have a shelf in the cupboard which is theirs. It is only that way as I feed my children better than I do myself.

My children have big appetites (growing all the time would do that I guess ) and I think DH and I have been unfair and maybe felt they were greedy. Of course they would rather have cheerios sometimes instead of Weetabix or porridge! DH thinks I buy them too many choices.

I have had a bit of a strop but really think I have taken a lot from this thread about what I am getting wrong but because I have also had very helpful suggestions too it has been fine. In the past when I have been criticised but not helped with what I should do it has been hard to take.

It also sits with me worrying I am not feeding them the right types of food to keep them going until the next meal. DS2 has a slightly annoying habit of deciding he is hungry the minute I say it is bed time (and he has become a pest at bedtime about going to bed so it adds another annoyance.)

toffee All children have the annoying habit of saying they are hungry the moment it is bedtime . My DS1 is nearly 8 and every single night he comes down for his bedtime snack. What he gets depends on how tired etc we are but he always gets something.

fwiw I have never done the 'you must eat fruit if you are hungry' mainly because DS1 won't eat any sort of fruit at all and also doesn't like yoghurts. DS2 will eat fruit and yoghurt and will often chose this over biscuits but again it depends how he feels.

We do have boundaries and will say no more biscuits if they are onto their 5th, but the alternative would be crackers, cheese, ham or crisps or some such.

Good luck with all of this, you will sort it out I am sure.

Most children are "hungry" all the time.

They normally are not hungry, they want something sweet, or they want to stop something from happening, like bedtime or bath time.

You don't sound like you are starving them. So it's not your fault, it's not what you are feeding them, it's just the default setting on an 8 year old or a 10 year old or a teenager to be permanently starving.

After the fondant icing incident with ds2 who was also 8 at the time, I explained that he is perfectly welcome to eat whatever he wants. If he chooses to eat fondant icing at 7am, then that's up to him. If he wants to eat all the snacks in one go, again up to him. But I won't be buying anymore after it finishes and he won't be getting a Christmas cake because I am not going to replace the things he eats.

An interesting approach Tantrums, but I think children can have too much freedom.
My DF for example tells the story of how as a young child he was allowed/ not stopped from destroying his much loved and valuable new trike during a tantrum. I think stepping in and removing child from this course of action would have been kinder ?
Similarly I think I wouldn't be happy to give my DC complete free rein regarding food choices at home, but nor would I think in terms of "stealing"
The wisdom of the middle way I hope ?