Cna I just share this with whoever is interested, I cant believe what ive just seen, am sooooo **** off

[stoppinattwo]

Sorry to rant but here goes........

Was putting DD to bed earlier when I heard a van screech to a halt outside. looked out and saw the van and a bike lying on the floor. Ran outside and found a little boy (6) had been knocked off his bike on the main road outside. It didnt look to serious, his leg was quite badly scraped and few bumps and bruises. Carried him to his parent house 4 doors along and there was nobody in.I phoned an ambulance etc the little boy by this time was hysterical.

His mother and father turned up about 10 minutes later, they had both been out (at McDonalds .....please ) both got angry at each other and started to blame each other........... sorry if this is too surreal. poor van driver doesnt know what to do, poor child is still hysterical as he can now see what he has done to himself. These people have three other children who were all in the house alone, all younger than this lad. Ambulance arrives and little boy is taken with mum to the hospital. Notice she is expecting another. I try not to judge, people have problems and people have priorities but I could have been lifting a dead child from off that road and I feel like shaking that mother so hard I just dont know what to do.
The poor van driver was shaking soo hard i didnt know what to say to him for the best. The boy had ridden out of the drive way straight into his path and he had tried to stop.
If i see this boys mother or father its going to be so hard to keep my mouth shut.

Sorry to rant, I just need to calm down a bit

Why, thank you Mixed! I am always grateful when people keep an eye out for ds (he's been known to run away for me, little monkey. Did it coming away from Gym Club on Friday just as a car came past and I was stuck behind someone else, couldn't get to him on time. That's part of this 'we are all responsible for children' thing too.

I think the problem here is not that the boy was allowed to play out, or even that his parents were not around, but that he shouldn't have been on his bike on the road. The parents' mistake, if any, was not making sure that he knew that, IMO.

However accidents do happen to children even when their parents are with them and 'protecting' them. I think it's dangerous to instantly give way to a kneejerk reaction that it must have been the parents 'fault' just because they were not there.

Um, F&Z, leaving a six-year old and three younger children alone is neglect whether or not they have a bike accident IMO.

Had she run out for a prescription, GP appointment, meter money- never OK but just about tolerable I guess, MacD's? Sorry??????? hardly an emergency.

I take my three everywhere if I have to go, one with SN that causes shop problems. This is so out of oredr and I would call SS, no problems. Have worked in child protection too, so have an idea of SS etc.

The parents being out, and the boy being allowed to play outside, did not cause this accident though, Edam. The boy riding his bike in the road did that.

I must admit I had missed the bit about the 3 younger children. My post was in response to the reactions of some posters to the fact that the 6 year old was out playing in the street

"Who on earth lets a 6 year old out to play ffs,"

was one comment. I let my 3 year old out to play - he knows the rules and the other children out there look out for one another.

I feel very worried for this family, but kneejerk reactions like the above do not help.

Actually F and Z, this really neatly fits the categories of compulsory referrals I used to have drummed into me.

If your lads played outside (mine don't but I don't know if he wuld had he not been SN) I rpesume you'd be findable, if someting happened? An accident? A stranger? That is important.

Interesting article in the guardian yesterday about the consequences of people only looking out for themselves, and not putting the needs of 'society' first.

Disagree F&Z, it's like the argument that guns don't kill people, people who pull the trigger kill people. If his parents were there, they could have supervised him, or instructed him to stay on the pavement. Or at least been available to help the poor kid after the accident. And they are bloody lucky the other three didn't come to any harm. It's one thing to allow children to play out, another to abandon four children six and under.

Franny, does your 3yo play out on a busy road that's also a bus route?

I don't see anything wrong with children playing in the road, but only if the road is "safe" - well, as safe as roads get. I used to play tennis in our road as a child - no chance of that for the children who live there now because it's full of parked cars

Stitch, I've found that people usually do look out for children. I know if I see a child in a shopping centre who's lost, I've always gone and seen they're OK and either taken them to the customer services or waited till their parent showed up. On every occasion, the parent's been grateful for my intervention.

In this instance, I would have also phoned social services. I spoke to my HV when I saw a car pulling off with a new mum in the back seat, baby in arms. I couldn't not. (New mum had just been in the clinic, fretting over her baby's colic, this was in the surgery car park).

"It's one thing to allow children to play out, another to abandon four children six and under."

Agreed. It's the part about allowing 6 years olds in general to play in the street I am discussing.

"If his parents were there, they could have supervised him"

but most people would consider a 6 year old capable of playing without supervision. I don't think you should necessarily blame the parents for this boy's accident just because they were not there. Loads of 6 year olds are allowed to play outside. Most know not to go in the road. I don't see how the parents having been at home would have prevented the accident.

Hunker, no, of course not. But I was and am talking about the post that said "Who on earth lets a 6 year old out to play ffs"

Erm, plenty of people. Many sensible, good , responsible parents let 6 year olds out to play.

I don't think you can let a 6 year old out to play in a street with cars, however sensible they are.
A child that young ( comprehensive studies on child development have shown this) has no real comprehension of the possible dangers of traffic they cannot judge car speeds and distances and their ability to respond quickly to such a danger is much slower than that of an adult's.
A road might be extremely quiet, but it only takes one careless and distracted driver to create a fatality.
They cannot be expected to remember to stay on the pavement either. Children are very easily distracted and are very impulsive.
Sorry if I'm repeating some of what's already been said.

poppyflower, I completely agree. Most children cannot cross a road safely until they are at least 8 years old

I am not talking about children crossing roads, or riding their bikes in the street. But it seems to me that virtually everyone on this thread has already made up their minds on what they think the issues are here, and what they think I am saying. It's a shame, because it's a fascinating subject, if people can just disable their knee-jerk responses.

What do you mean by playing outside then?

Please do explain what you do mean again for me Franny. I would be interested in having a discussion with you so that you didn't feel that way and felt that the response was a considered one. I have had a quick glance through your posts but it would be great if you would consolidate your thoughts for me

I mean playing on the pavement or in the gardens outside your houses. That is what I take most people mean by playing out in the street. It doesn't mean the child is in the road. Not all houses are straight onto the roas. Not all roads are busy ones on a bus lane. I am still perturbed about the post that said "Who on earth lets a 6 year old out to play ffs". This implies that it is never safe to let a 6 year old play outside their house. I disagree very strongly with this.

I also think some dodgy conclusions are being drawn from this accident. The 4 children should obviously never have been left alone while the parents went to Mc Donalds. But it doesn't necessarily follow that it was their fault the boy had an accident. I still don't see how the accident would have been avoided, had the parents been at home. I think we are all very quick to turn and point the finger. I also think we are terrified of letting our children have any freedom. But on this thread, when I am trying to discuss this, people are getting upset and responding with extreme examples such as a 3 year old playing outside near a bus lane, and 'abandoning' children.

If I had front garden or lived in an area safe enough for children to play on the pavement I still don't think a 6 year old is capable of playing without supervision, and not because I think there is a paedophile lurking on every street corner. A group of young children can get up to all sorts and do need some level of supervision.

Ok Mercy, thanks for not getting hysterical at me

I feel it is often safe but it is interesting to hear what other people think. I think the street can be a lot safer place for children to play without being watched, than in the home. Less dangers IMO - modern house not a very safe place for a child - plus they are very visible in the street to any passer by or parent peeping out, and they know it!

Out of interest would you let a 6 year old play unsupervised in your house / back garden?

yes
my ds2 plays out i our cul de sac of 12 houses for hours
i cna see him most of th e tiem adn heaer him
the road is paved so is only used for access t ohouses.
ds1 and 2 are allwoed to go across the road to our local green this summer for half hour intervals

i also let my lamost 8 year old go on errands to the shop or to neighbours houses

htis is a NEW treat and he si so proud of himself

Franny- I see what you are saying. It is a difficult subject. I live in a village for example, that has a large central pond and a 'road' going round the outside. It is relatively quite and when nearly all of the visitors to the pond go home I let my older boys nearly 7 and nearly 8 ride around on their bikes for a short time. I am aware that I am taking a risk but like you I think that children have to be given some degeree of freedom and we cannot eradicate risk from their lives. A balance has to be stuck between being a responsible, protective parent and one that recognises that in order to help our children to develop we need to let them off the 'lead' and take some risks. Of course our perception of risk varies so much. What is ok for one person is unthinkable for another.
This might seem to contradict what I have already said. For me what those parents really did wrong was to let the child out without any kind of supervision i.e. not be there at all!!!. You are right that them being in the house would not have prevented the accident. I also think that if a road is even just quite busy then a child should not be allowed to play cycle in it. It's too risky from my point of view. Sad indeed that that freedom is not there as it was when I was a child when cars were fewer and drove much more slowly. It's easier just to let them out when they are driving you crazy and they need exercising, but you can't always do that. That's what beeing a responsible parent is about. Making considered and sensible risk assessments.
I try to be polite. Have been on some threads when I have felt attacked as you do now. People gang up and its not nice

I think it builds self-esteem to let them have as much freedom as possible, within boundaries of course.

The question about the 6 year old playing unsupervised in your house was for Mercy, but I'm interested to see what other people think as well of course.

i leav the dsses in th house while i am in the road yacking
or if i run next doro
w odlnt leave ds3 as he is mad

Could guard the house for you!!