Computer Time Conflict

[JenJam]

I feel depressed. I haven't been on here for 5 years - have been busy with DS2 and work. I need some help and advice. My son is almost 8. He loves all types of screen time - ipad, ipod, laptop, TV. It's a constant source of conflict between us and him and between his dad and me. We limit it although during school holidays or at grandmas it creeps up to a level we are not happy with...e.g. 1 hour everyday instead of 30 mins 3 x a week. If we leave a device (like an smartphone on the kitchen worksurface, he will take it when our backs are turned (say if I am cooking the evening meal or dealing with his little brother) and he will run upstairs to play it. Under his bed. I have to watch out all the time, see what he is doing and keep a check on all the devices in our household. I want to throw them out of the window and live somewhere without wifi. What really upsets me is that he seems addicted and ashamed. I just don't know what to do. I know he feels shame because he'd like to do what we ask (i.e. stick to the limits) but he is so utterly tempted. He whiles away his time until he can get on. Everything else is just passing time, even if he only gets 30 mins on a Saturday after 5, he'll ask us the time and check the clock all day until it's time for computer time. He doesn't play by the rules. He gets up early, sneaks onto the laptop at 6 am..5am to play minecraft or watch you tube minecraft. I don't think he should watch you tube at all, so I blocked it. I explained he can only watch it if he asks me first and if I am in the same room as him as I have no idea of the content and there is some stuff on there that might not be suitable for his age e.g. swearing for instance. He is grumpy and rude towards me when I have a conversation with him about my concerns. He sees computer time as his 'right' in life. He cries and tells me he hates himself. He hides under his duvet (like tonight at bedtime). I changed my passwords, he tries to break them, blocking me from using my phone for 24 hours once. I began hiding my laptop before bed. He began searching for it creeping around the house looking for it at 5 am while I slept (under the bed, in my drawers). One of us now gets up when he gets up. He gets so angry if he can't find the devices while we sleep. He wakes us all up with his stomping around and loud complaints. The whole family gets up at 5/6 am all because books and lego are regarded as inferior. Sometimes I feel i should lighten up/relax about screen time after all it's in our world, and it's something he enjoys and is good at. His dad thinks we should have fixed time slots, but I feel he wishes his life away, and I want him to feel empowered, in charge of his life, within the clear boundaries (you can't play for more than 45 mins, when we say it's time to come off it's time to come off, be pleasant and less angry about not playing. He gets grumpy and irritable about the other things we have planned (e.g. fun things with friends, homework, football or guitar. I feel I do my best for him and he says I am ruining his life. He's seven years old. It makes me worry for the teenage years. We only watch TV as a treat during term time - on a Friday, occasionally on a Saturday or Sunday we'll watch a movie. One of anything is never enough. It always ends badly when it's time to switch it off. His dad and I keep arguing about what to do about it. He would like to give clear limits 30 mins x 3 times per week. My son's interest in computer time is so vast it's hard to keep track of what we are actually offering and to judge what is reasonable. 30 minutes on mine craft 3 x week plus TV time on top? how much TV time. He would like to watch 2 hours of it on Sat and Sun am (again waking up at 5/6 am specifically to get more 'time to himself' i.e. more TV time. This is very long. And a rant so excuse repetition and typos...

If anyone has any direct experience of this in their own family, and suggestions for a more balanced life, and happy child and happy parent-child relationship. please let me know.

Hi JenJam,

I have set a "watch" on this thread because we are in a similar situation - not quite as extreme as yours but I certainly recognise the grumpiness, the not wanting to stop when it is time & the considering all other activities as boring.

My DS is 10 by the way.

I feel stuck MaeMobley. I feel his self esteem is low because of the battles. I want to build him up and encourage his interest but also I want him to live a balanced life and develop his brain and interests beyond computer geekery. And I want him to be self motivating. is that too much to ask of an 8 year old? Thanks for taking the time to read my VERY long post. I'm freelance and I'm not taking on any work to try to be around every day after school. I feel that when I work he develops routines that are not healthy. One childminder was very good at following our instructions about computer limits, the other was a bit more relaxed - he could always squeeze in an extra 30 mins with her. he does the sneaking around with a cheeky smile btw, so it feels less hurtful when he does it, but we've had so many conversations now - without any change in behaviour that I am becoming exasperated and angry. it is a full time job trying to occupy him in non computer interest. Tonight he shouted through tears that I need to buy him more books, when I asked that he go back to sleep, read or play with lego if he wakes early. We have over 300 books I would imagine FFS. I'd be interested to know how much computer time others allow their 8 year old, and how much TV time

Well, I am hardly a good example. I don't limit TV but the DC don't watch it excessively. It is the PC/iPad time that I worry about.

In theory, DS is allowed 30 mins iPad per day & 30 mins computer time per day. He has to do it downstairs in a shared area, ie not in his room. But with him, it is always "I need to finish this level" & he gets very grumpy when I tell him it is time.

He loves watching others playing games on You Tube - which worried me because of the bad language.

He is not bothered with our phones. But he is not interested in anything else (lego/ reading/ imaginative play).

Are there things your DS enjoys doing with you? eg board games, building lego together?

We give around 30 mins a day. but then he sneaks about an hour on top, if he can. he does like board games and lego and reading, but he'd always take a pc/laptop/iphone/ipad first if he could get his hands on one - he'd regard these as inferior alternatives, although he enjoys them when he gets into it, it's the getting him to feel enthused in them in the first place that is hard. My husband tried a no computer/ipad between 9 and 5 rule about a year ago and that seemed to work well in terms of his mood and acceptance during the day. It had to go though, as I felt it encouraged early rising and caused 'attitude' towards end of day. But the middle of the day was blissful - he was kind of resigned then happy about the reading, lego and making his own fun. The prob is that the rules fall apart if we visit his cousin (11 years old) who has alot more freedom - he introduced him to minecraft in the first place - they have a mutual interest. I don't want to live like this! I just want him to be happy. and I want to go back to 1977 when we all played on the swings and outside on our Grifters/choppers (bikes btw..).

I feel that by introducing devices into your house you are almost bound to come up against this. Do you know what his friends are allowed in terms if TV and computer time? You are probably fighting against a tidal wave and I think other parents will be a lot more relaxed than you. I have older girls and this was never a problem for us but he is clearly unhappy with your boundaries and it is making him cheat which would appear to be against his nature. I may be wrong, but in every case I know of this, it is always a boy!! I think you could allow a bit more TV. Children do need relax and it is not all bad. There are some great programmes you can watch together. I think your big problem will be the influence of others and once these games get into your life, it is a Pandora's Box! I think you could maybe get him to choose computer or TV for an agreed time each day. I suspect he will be talking to other boys and will be wanting to compete against them in progress on the games. Personally I do think this is a complete waste of time and it seems to hook children into a way of life some of us, including you, don't like. My Mum has told me my nephew can spend 9 hours a day, age 9, doing computer games. He used to be a great kid but has lost interest in nearly everything else and will not cooperate with homework, keeps leaving the table to get back to the computer and has tantrums when asked to let other family members use it. Please don't let your son get like this.

Personally I suspect limiting it makes it more attractive, so they will sneak more.

We don't have a limit in our house. The limit is basically by having 5 of us with 2 computers. Dd1 and dd2 often have homework to do on the computer.
Ds (age 6yo) is the keenest on the computer (we don't have a TV) but what he does on the computer is often looking up stuff that interests him or playing games-most of which are educational, his favourite site has lots of maths games on.

But it's limited naturally by other activities and other people wanting the computer.

If he is spending too long on the computer, rather than saying "that's your time, come off" I suggest something else to do. Card game, walk to the park, baking cakes, craft... all things that get them off the computer and doing something else without them feeling the computer is forbidden fruit.

We had something similar, ds (age 9) wouldn't steal things to use because the consequences to that would be too much, but his life became about his next "fix", everything else was waiting and filling time until he could get it. I don't know why, or if some kids are more susceptible or what. We used to be more laissez faire about it and it was just one of many things he did, then suddenly it was the only thing.

So here's what we did that has worked. A month detox. No pc, ipod, ds, tablet and tv limited. There were lots of behaviour issues initially, especially as I refused to get into suggesting entertainment for him, he knows what toys he has. He eventually began to entertain himself again! And we praised that and he said he'd forgotten how much he enjoyed his lego etc.

After that we tried a few things, but what works best is nothing Mon-Friday and 1-2 hours on a Saturday and an hour on a Sunday. As early as possible so he's not just waiting for it and obsessing over it.

And he can only watch tv if he wants a specific programme, not just to have it on. The same with youtube with a limit.

Obviously he's allowed to use the pc for homework, or if he wants to print something out to do, using it as a tool not as an end in itself. And it's password protected so he can't just use it.

I don't have much experience as DS1 is only 3, but I was just thinking, what about if you let him control his own time?
So maybe have 10 tokens for the week, each equating to 30 minutes screen time (or however many you choose) if he chooses to use 2 of those tokens in one day then that is his choice but it is HIS decision to use that token and not have enough for the end of the week.

Does that make sense?
Give him the freedom and control over it rather than you deciding for him?

My 6 yr old is not as extreme but similar, there is nothing he would rather do than play mine craft or other games.
I have to give him my undivided attention to keep him off the iPad or phone which is not always easy, he had his birthday 2.5 weeks ago and ha s a box of Lego and other toys untouched upstairs.
Sorry, that's not a lot of help just empathy.
We do have screen free Monday (our evening with no other after school evening) which he totally accepts but sometimes they are very long! He is also not allowed on it before school.
He is younger than your son and I guess that makes him a bit more malleable but clear rules that are not broken, bent or negotiated is the way forward for him

We dont really limit screen time at all and the children (age 6 and 9) go through phases of playing games a lot and then they get fed up and do something else. The tv is on for background noise a lot of the time too. Maybe we are not setting the best example!

Hi everyone. I realise I am older than most people posting here, but what did children do before all these computers came into their lives? I think they are also dividing young society. By that I mean that because some children do little else besides play computer games, they do not converse effectively because they can only talk about these games. They may have a small group of like minded friends, but what do they have in common with the rest of their contemporaries who are less hooked? If these children behave so obsessively at such a young age, what does the future hold for them? It makes me wonder how any of these totally obsessed children can ever have a normal young life, or indeed adulthood. Clearly there are plenty of children who balance gaming with other activities, but it is a very slippery slope when gaming goes too far. Every single child I went to school with had a TV and we talked about what we liked at school but the hours were restricted for all of us and it was family viewing so at least we talked about what we had watched within the family. Gaming seems self centred and lonely so why has it become such a major part of some children's lives? Why do parents not want to talk to their children and prefer the computer to be the baby sitter? I admit I don't understand it. I am just thankful I didn't have to deal with the fall-out. Although I think, as a nation, we will.

I like the idea of screen free Monday!

We have the same problems in our house, with Minecraft, Minecraft videos on YouTube, and now Survivalcraft. You wouldn't know ds1 is in the house when he's on my iPad, but the minute he needs to stop, he's angry, argumentative, and aggressive.

We've had a nice week so far, as I've banned use of the iPad, and he's been reading books and playing with Lego. There have been times when I've despaired that he's missing out on his childhood as he lost all interest in play.

Maybe you could insist that he only has screen time once he has done any reading/homework/played for an hour?

Hi, my DS, (6) is similar. I think the games are addictive, you always want to get to the next level. Even the cbeebies ones say keep saying 'Would you like to play again?'.
I guess you and your partner arguing over it is going to make the matter much worse. If you could discuss it when he's not around then present a united front, that would help. Although that's easier said than done. Both of your ideas sound reasonable to me.
With my DS we try to play a board game or 'Pass the Pigs', so he's getting time with one of us. (which is really hard because you're always busy!).
That's all I can think of just now.
I did have a chat with him about how tv and computer games are a bit addictive, but he's only wee, so he's not going to have the discipline and self awareness to suddenly stop. Most adults don't either.
Good Luck!

ilovepowerhoop That's what we used to do and it worked, then it stopped working. Honestly, I think it was connected to a period of bullying ds went through at school and he started using it as an escape and to stop thinking. But once it had taken hold then it's been a difficult habit to break.

Although we're having success in that he's seeing the usefulness of technology beyond games again. I let him on yesterday as he wanted to catch up on the news (Newsround) and then he's been trying to teach himself Russian to talk to a new friend at school.

Oh and with my DS once he's started on another game, (lego/books/ hot wheels) he enjoys it, but he complains at first. I think sometimes he doesn't know how to start. Can't think of any tips on that though, except for try not to say 'Turn off Minecraft and play lego now', because then he'll see lego as the rubbish one. I try to get him doing something else straight away before he goes for the ipad.

Phew, sounds like this is turning into a real power struggle. I can see you are looking for an ideal solution, where your DS accepts your limits and doesn’t even hanker after more time, but the reality is that unless you are going to get rid of the gaming/computer devices and telly altogether, you are likely to have to compromise some of your ideals.

To be honest I don’t think it matters much what limits you set, so long as:

• You and your DH are both in agreement about the limits and willing to stick to them and enforce them
• Your DS has enough time to do the other essentials of life – homework, chores, time with friends, time with you, sleep, exercise...
• The limits you set are clear and simple and consistent.

The rules you have at present about what your DS can do and when sound a bit complicated? Your husband’s solution with fixed time limits came closest to working for you, so that’s a good place to start. (e.g. you could allow DS so much "screen time" each day, and let him choose what kind) And you and DH do need to agree, or nothing you do is going to work.

My DS1 is 8, and also loves playing the DS and the Wii. He's allowed 30 mins a day screen time, and sometimes (probably quite often) a bit more if DH wants to keep him and DS2 quiet while he cooks tea. DS1 will often whinge about wanting to finish a level, and sometimes sneaks his DS to play secretly. We're pretty hard on him when this happens and will confiscate the DS if he sneaks it or won't turn off, and take away his screen time if he overplays (and for other misdemeanours).

I would say that you maybe need to ban screens for a week to try to break the cycle, and then have clearly set out consequences for unauthorised screen time. I would probably give him control over when he plays though - so if he wants to play first thing in the morning, that's fine, but then that's it for the day.

Oh, and I don't think you need to lighten up about screen time. It is in our world, and it is broadly good, but in moderation. Some children need limits to help them achieve moderation.

The trouble with saying “if you play with the computer in the morning you can’t in the afternoon” is that you then have to keep track. Simpler to have fixed times when it is and isn’t OK. Agree with the rest though cornflakegirl

Never found that to be a problem, but then they play in our (open plan) living room, so we do always know.

It's like what you say about a power struggle - timing is one I that I prefer to compromise on. But whatever works for each family.

I’m not against DS choosing the time as such, it’s more that I wouldn’t want to have to remember if DS was on the computer before school or not, and I wouldn’t want to deal with the fall-out if he comes home from school and forgot he’d already been on and I had to tell him to get off again. Not to mention scenarios where you’re saying “but you were on this morning” and he’s arguing “but I was only for 20 minutes, I can have another 10 minutes now” --- but I think my DS is a bit of a barrack-room lawyer

I agree about using a carrot rather than a stick.
I don't limit screen time either - we have 4 laptops and 3 pcs in our house. My oldest ( 15)will spend 6 hours a day on the PC when not at school, unless I arrange some other activity. He doesn't watch TV, he plays online games with his friends.
I have given up worrying especially after the school prizegiving this year where he came first in his year ( out of 150 kids) for physics, history, computing and philosophy.

I do insist on no PC after 9pm as he does need his sleep, but I have given up worrying over it.
I know where he is- there are many parents of 15 years olds who fret with worry because their kids are out on the streets getting into mischief!!

Yes, we do have a lot of that! Negotiation is an important life-skill though, right?

Msmiggins - good point - I probably will chain DS to the computer when he hits the teenage years!

I've stopped limiting it too. Dd seems to self regulate. Banning it makes it more attractive.

Jen jam, any progress?
We're seeing clear links between poor behaviour and too much mine craft in ds, more restrictions coming his way