Behaviour nightmare

[Wearehamandcheese]

I've NC'd for this so if you recognise me please don't say anything. My dd is 7 and currently an absolute nightmare. She refuses to do anything she's told and kicks off every time dh and I try to tell her off. She point blank refuses to do time outs much preferring to scream shout and throw things at us for hours at a time. Nothing works. Time outs, toy confiscation , not being allowed to go out. Nothing. I've lost count of how many days out we have had to cancel because she has behaved so badly and doesn't deserve to go. Every little thing is met with a whine or fifty questions as to why she has to do it. She winds up her sister in the hope we will be to busy sorting her out to notice she's doing something she shouldn't. We always so our best to make time for her. We take her out on her own , we treat her , and we snuggle up for cuddles etc after dd2 has gone to bed.

It doesn't matter what we try she will just not do what she is told or accept the word no. She's well behaved and a delight to teach according to her teachers so she an behave she just chooses not to.

I realise how negative this all sounds so I will add that she's smart and beautiful and funny and a great big sister when she chooses to be and I am so proud of how well she is doing and how kind towards others she can be. I just can't deal with this awful behaviour any more.

So any ideas outside all the stuff we have tried, reward charts, time outs, sent to bedroom, pasta jars, ignoring , etc will be gratefully received.

Thank you

Bump?

Well here we go round two of kick off. :(

I have no idea. Could have written your post about my 8 nearly 9 year old.

Some wise person will be along soon...

Her foul mood has gone on all day. Beyond a joke :(

I'm afraid I do t have a wise solution but wanted to reply so you don't feel ignored.
I've had my dd (8) in her own today as she had an extra inset day and she was such a pleasure I ended up feeling sorry that she has a sibling as he annoys her so much she us often vile.
On a general note, I tend to find that the more grown up I treat her the better she responds - have you tried talking with her and exploring how her her behaviour makes you all feel?
Sorry not to be of more help, I hope you get some better advice very soon.

Thank you for your reply hilly
I have discovered that it makes no difference whether we are alone or not. As so as it comes down to needing to do something she doesn't want up do that's it. Could be cleaning teeth or her homework or bedtime or timeout. I've tried taking a more adult approach with her. She's been allowed to stay up and do lots of things that her sister isn't old enough to do and she will abuse it. I tell her to go to bed or she goes in a time out/looses a DVD then bang two hours of screaming. I'm surprised the police havent been called yet.

Gosh, that sounds major rather than just grumpy which my dd can be (I wondered about hormones).
I think in all truth it may be worth seeking external advice, maybe your doctor, health visitor or even headteacher could give you a steer in the right direction.

This probably sounds really name but have you checked for things in her diet that could be affecting her behaviour?

My ds12 used to behave really badly all the time when he was 5/6. He was like the spawn of the devil!! After reading something online I cut out anything with orange colouring like squash and crisps. The change in his behaviour was amazing.

The odd time we slipped up and let him have orange stuff his behaviour reverted right back to being terrible.

*lame

Dr thought I was nuts and there are no problems at school so it's a choice she is making at home. Hv round here are crap they have never had anything of any use to say throughout both kids :)

Diet is good she eats really well. Goes through picky stages as all kids do but all in all she eats a wide range of foods, and I've never noticed any behaviour links with any. She loves nuts and seeds will eat friend tinned and fresh fruit. I do red meat say twice a week plus two or three vegetarian meals and fish or chicken the rest of the time with the odd sausage and chips and beans thrown in. Most of what she eats is home made from scratch even the bread so that rules out E numbers and preservatives being the problem. They get home made muffins and cakes and favourite puddings. She's fine at everyone else's house. It's just us.

Friend? Dried

Mines like this. Will argue for ever, and unbelievable persistent. Often feel exhausted. I find ignoring most stuff except the really terrible works. However what works best is rewards and praise.

I have a theory. You mentioned that you've tried a lot of different forms of discipline, but how consistent have you been with them? If she refuses to do time outs, do you keep putting her back until she complies, even if it takes hours? Discipline is not meant to be easy or even simple, it's meant to teach the child that her actions have unpleasant consequences and that both of your lives will be easier if she keeps herself in check.

There's also the possibility that she is too old or too bright for the time out technique to be effective. I used to look after a child like this. So I gave him an essay to write for me every time he acted up. Every time he argued, he got an extra 50 words. He always stopped arguing before he hit the 500 word mark, and he always wrote the essay.

Sounds very stressful for you Have you ever heard of this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder I don't know a lot and I'm not saying that this is what your dd has, just that there may be some strategies which may be able to help. It may be helpful if you post on the SN boards.

I think you raise a good point to be honest. I do believe she's "outgrown" time outs and reward charts etc. they make her more angry

It's just finding something she cares about enough to be a consequence if that makes sense.

She is alot brighter than she allows herself to be seen as.

Have you tried breaking each bit of time down? Ie the day is split into lots of little chunks and she gets a marble or whatever for each one she behaves nicely in. Ie one for breakfast, one for getting ready for school, one for being good at school ( the teacher will give you a thumbs up at the door at home time, even though there is no problem at school she will benefit from knowing that the teacher is inputting too) then tea time, bath time and bed time. Then if she gets say, 4 out of the maybe 7 that are available, then she gets a small reward. Ie ten mins more reading, small party bag type toy, smartie etc. then gradually move the reward boundary, ie she has to get 5, then 6.

Also princess is right, it takes a good couple of weeks for this kind of strategy to work and people often give up after the first day of it doesn't work (not saying you have though).

It's really hard, especially when she is behaving well at school (I have had this loads of times when parents are at their wits end but we see a charming well behaved child at school!)

My dd behaves hideously sometimes and me (genuinely at the end of my tether) getting upset and crying about it works way more than telling her off. An honest chat helps me with her too.

Good luck.

Just out of interest have you had her eyes/ hearing tested lately?

My ds who is 6 is being a little like this. Waif I tell anyone they clearly think I am making it up as he doesn't do it anywhere else! I resist the thoughts I am just a crap parent. He also has a little sister who he adores and she adores him right back. When he drives her crazy its awful. Hardly at all but awful. They are very different personalities as well.

I read "how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk" it was well worth it. I found I needed to engage with good behaviour and get ds to be responsible for his behaviour iyswim, nt stickers etc ( he scorns them, curled lip etc, for babies...

We talk about privileges and I realised he needed t be allowed to do more independently and also my behaviour had to change, less directive and cross. I also read " toddlerdom to teen" which is by the man that wrote toddler taming I think. Also very good and extremely down to earth.

Some works, some doesn't, just like things with you and me. But I accept ds hormones and temper plus attitude in spades and we are doing our best to help him through it. We have had to change too. We don't want a battlefield and the old fashioned stuff of slapping and threats isnt an option for us. I don't put ds in timeout anymore either.

I've looked at that link thank you :) first impressions are that she doesn't fit that. She does know better and it does appear to be a choice rather than something she can't help. I wouldn't say she was resentful and she doesn't seek revenge or have trouble with making friends Etc. it appears to be deliberate attempts to be difficult resulting in her getting herself worked up over something easily avoided. We never cave to it and it always results in her being in punished even if its in the morning. She gets frustrated at us not paying attention to the outbursts and steps up the game. This continues til she gets bored and realises we aren't biting. But she will hold the grudge for hours.

One thing that is puzzling though is that she can be being lovely, we could be chatting on the way back from a trip and be having lots of snuggled and hugs and kisses. We get home fine and then it's literally snap and she won't get in the bath or brush her teeth etc. it's like flicking a switch. I am wondering hormones if anything. She has been on and off like this for a couple if years but things do improve for a while. This is worst it's been and literally just the past two weeks.

Could you talk to the SENCO (I assume you're in England) at her school? Is there a Home Link Worker attached to her feeder secondary school who could get involved? What about the Ed Psych team? Do they run any parenting groups?

Have you spoken to her about her behaviour? Her teacher? Why does she think she chooses to behave at school? What motivates her? What extra-curricular activities is she involved in? For example, Brownies? The Brown Owl could talk with her about her behaviour.

If she was my DD, I would rule out any medical (hearing, speech, etc.) and/or ASN (ADD, ADHD, ASD, ODD, DCD, etc.) difficulties first. If not, then you & your DH need a plan to consistently deal with her.

I think you really need to address this very quickly before she becomes a teenager.

Actually I was a bit like this when I was little. Awkward and difficult just for the sake of it

I'm normal now though. However, I am still very persistent, so she may turn out fine. . I know this is no help, but sometimes, I could just be difficult because I was determined to be. No amount of bribery or sanctions worked, in fact sanctions made me worse. I would get even angrier and more determined. I don't know why I was like this though. As I said, I'm relatively normal now, and am very tolerant and easy going

So what did your mum do with u? :)

I remember her really struggling tbh. Sanctions never worked. I remember her slapping me, and I slapped her back when I was about 8.

I am totally normal and good tempered now. Did a degree and everything. Wasn't even a particularly difficult teenager

I can't think what she did really.She used to take things away, or send me to my room, but it never made any difference. I would just create hell. because of/ during sanction.

Am very compliant now, but don't respect any one who try's to tell me what to do, and I think that is perhaps the key. I know my own mind, and I loathe people interfering or bossing me round.