FALL OUT WITH FREIND OVER her dd

[Kidstrack]

I have a friend who has a dd nearly the same age as my dd, my dd is 3 in 2 weeks and friends dd is 3 in July, they are due to go to nursery in August, problem is my friends dd hits and lashes out at all children the same age or smaller including my dd taking it most of the time, however this morning at toddler group my friend was in the toilet and her dd kicked a baby in the tummy and then followed a toddler into a play tunnel and grabbed the wee soul by the hair and nipped and scratched until the LO cried, i went and got my friends dd out of the tunnel by lifting her out from one end so as she couldn't get to the LO again, her dd gave me the most dirtiest look i have ever seen (for a child that age), stood looked around notices her mother wasn't in the room and ran into the hall of the toddler group screaming mummy mummy she hit me, meaning me! i explained what happened to my friend and she went and got her coat and her dd coat and left the toddler group, i'm now at home with my stomach churning in knots because i phoned my friend when i got home asking if she was angry with me, she said she is extremely angry at me for

1. Lifting her daughter
2. Saying to her dd NO don't hit
3. She says i have something against her daughter(i have nothing against any child, i love children and deal with them all as individuals) and that i should never say anything to anyone elses child if they hit out I explained i only lifted her daughter to prevent the child being attacked again, and as a friend i explained maybe it was time to try some other way of dealing with her dd hitting out i.e taking her away from the situation, time out for 2 mins in her buggy, or giving her a stern warning or they were having to leave, she has now accused me of trying to tell her to raise her daughter and i have oh so perfect children, (my children are not perfect) i disipline them as i see fit at a situation, my friend has only ever said to her dd " oh don't do that darling" thats all she has ever done, so i thought it was a duty as a friend to say to her on the phone, i have always stuck up for her at toddler groups and things when the other parents talk about her and her dd, now she is accusing me of all sorts and i feel crap now, my stomach is in knots and i don't know wether just to walk away from this friend, afterall she did hang the phone up on me, please give opinions please, have i been a horrible friend?

sounds to me as though she knows her parenting skills are lacking and was embarassed.

You totally did the right thing. You have no need to apologise to her.

I would expect her to ring you when she has calmed down.

Tbh, to avoid things being awkward I would try to just say hello to her etc as your dds are going to be at nursery together. If she blanks you then at least you know you've done all you can to be civil.

Just wanted to add I think you were totally right. I would want any of my friends to do exactly what you did if my DS was hitting/pulling hair etc. I've left toddler groups before now with DS after warning him not to pinch/hit, and if he carries on, we go. But that's totally the opposite of what your friend has done. What will she do when nursery have to discipline her child, which it sounds like they will...? You can't ask them to treat one child differently to all the others when they push/kick/bite - which they all do from time to time.

Please don't be upset about this. You sound like much the better parent.

Bet she crawls back at some point...

i might be too late here but heres my view fwiw. I agree with all posters that you did the right thing but you don't have to stop speaking to her. just smile and say hello when you next see her but cool the friendship. It's up to her how she reacts to you but if you can remain acquaintances then you won't have any awkwardness...

Another 'good for you' for having the guts to be so honest with your friend (thats being a good friend, IMO) and of course you did the right thing intervening in the first place! I would have done the same, and would have been fine wiht you doing it if I were your friend. My blood boils at the image of Twigglett's ds not being helped in the playground by a bunch of Mums - but then, I've seen little old ladies fall down in the street and be ignored by a dozen passers-by. Scary.

Yes, I am sure your stomach will churn the first couple of times you walk past her...but her stomach will probably be doing worse things: on some level, she must know she is avoiding taking responsibility for her parenting - and if she doesn't, she needs to.

thanks i think that sounds like a good idea, just to smile say hello kinda thing, if she blanks me then fair enough, like you clairemow i used to act striaght away when dd used to bite, i strapped her in her pushchair for a min then she got out and played nicely, i only had to do this a few times but it worked and i did feel horrible as she was only about 18m, but i had to act as other children were being bitten.

Elibean, my stomach has churned all day, i haven't eaten at lunch and now i need to walk to school to collect ds, i'm walking on nerves. Thing is mums must do this kinda thing every other day and feel crap, its a horrible feeling, kids who would have em at least i can relax tonight and have a wee half bottle of wine, infact i think i might just have the bottle

The other mum is probably really upset and embarassed about the situation and just reacted without thinking.
My son can be agressive sometimes and it just makes you feel really awful, try not to blame her too much, she may be trying to rectify the situation, try to help her. It sometimes makes you feel really alone. I done think it can be as straightforward as saying that its crap parenting!

you did the right thing to prevent friend's dd from injuring someone else's child. it is instinctive of you to try to offer a friend some advice - i would have done the same with probably the same reception - you did both things in your eyes to 'make things better' for friend and her dd. sadly your friend won't see things things way.

don't beat yourself up too much for doing so. in this era where some people think that their child is untouchable, we get little nightmares. the biggest loser will be her dd.

It kind of relies on you being the adult here. You'll take the brunt if she ignores you but then at least you'll be able to live there rather than putting up walls.

I think different people deal in diff ways I (and most posters here it seems) tend to be a person who blames my child first, although it seems mean reprimanding a toddler for biting, I'd hate to have my kid slagged off by other mums or not invited to stuff.

Some others always seem to blame other peoples kids as theirs are always good and so theirs seems to get away with everythign. ultimately I just don't think that is a useful approach for the child but I do tend to think it's an result of their own problems, either insecurity or exhaustion or whatever. TBH I'd be surprised if she's interested in your advice from what you've posted but that's up to her isn't it? She doesn't have to listen but you don't have to be around to deal with the messs afterwards or to be put in this position again. sorry bit of a rant there

i have in my opinion been the adult and a good friend i'm 24 friend is 34, i would never blame a child outright for the way they behave etc but would have to say on this occasion and all other occasions that i have been there, that it is indeed a lack of discipline on the mums part so in affect i have to agree with bad parenting

I think many problems arise not only from parents not showing their children how to behave/reprimanding them appropriately but also from other adults not stepping in.

We need other adults to show children that bad behavior is unacceptable, as bad behavior affects everyone NOT just the parent. If you see what I mean - sorry a bit garbled as trying to cook tea and slip round corner for a sly post at same time

hope the school run went ok. catching up with this thread i am sooooo appalled at the face slapping. inexcusable in my book. she does not deserve your friendship but i can totally see why you need to keep things civil. enjoy your wine tonight!

omg, think i missed reading about the face slap. I agree, i think you have been the adult. despite the slap which you must be pretty pissed off about, completely out of order imo, I still reckon you say hello etc as you'll feel good in yourself. best do some work now I guess. Oh, it's time to go home. Hurrah.

You did the right thing. We can't look the other way when a child we're responsible for deliberately harms another child. Let your friend cool off for a bit. I'm sure part of the reason she went OTT was that she was embarrassed.

I think you did exactly the right thing. All my friends with children would have thanked me if I'd done that with any of their children. We have to support each other in this game surely?

unfortunatly there are some mums who cannot see their little angel has done anything wrong. i recently fell out with a friend. her ds, although "friends" with mine has been picking on him for years and i finally had enough. i told her (very nicely) what had happened (he was throttling ds) and instead of either believing me, or going back to ask her child his side of the story, she started screaming at me that she would NOT do ANYTHING about his behaviour and we should let them fight it out. yes fine maybe if it was a mutual little scrap, but my ds is terrified of this kid! it ended up in a big row and that was the end of our "friendship"..good riddance i say.

How's the stomach now?

How's the wine?!

What option did you have Kidstrack. Leave the child to carry on attacking other children. Would she have thanked you for that?

I'm assuming there's something you like about this woman and her dd as you've been friends in the past? I think it's very difficult to accept someone else, even a friend, and even if you know they're right, criticising your mothering skills. Do you think you approached her in the right way? Some of the things you said like telling her other parents talk about her and her dd, while it may be true, may have been too much for her.

I think you did totally the right thing by getting her dd out of that situation, for the same of the LO she was being cruel to and for her own sake because someone else would have had to stop her wouldn't they? But maybe afterwards it would have been wiser to just stand back, let your mate go off in a huff and get in touch with you when she'd calmed down.

I've had something slightly similar with a friend - her dd is quite aggressive towards mine but my friend is too soft with her rather than aggressive with her. I find it awkward because she lets her dd get away with things I tell my dd off for so my dd gets pretty confused as to why friend's dd is 'allowed' to hit her whereas my dd is in big trouble if she does something like that. As a result I find I rarely see my friend any more because even though I've tried to tell her, gently, that I think she's letting her dd get away with too much, she doesn't take any notice and I feel very sensitive about criticising her as a mother. We're all sensitive to criticisms aren't we?

Good for you kidstrack.
Let her stew,she seems obviously in the wrong.
If she challanges you,stick to your guns,politiely but firmly.
You were very brave.

I have a friend with a horrid aggressive child who spoils everything.Now I only see her when the offender is at school which is a great shame as our ds's get on very well.

Glass of wine and chin up!

hi all, again thanks for all the messages, i feel a bit better now, dp came home from work to find me in tears, Elibean my stomach has stopped the knotting and churning thank goodness and i have managed to have some toast, dp can't understand why i got myself so worked up, but i really don't like major confrontations/arguments and i felt bad that i had to say to her(have to say most arguments confrontations i have ever had are over children because i love them so much), but the way i need to look at it is that over the past year i have said little things when friend has said dd does this dd does that, i have maybe said why don't you try this or maybe try this with your dd and she always seemed keen to listen, freind would say things like i can't cope i have tried everything i'm at the end of my tether, i was always there for her to sound off about her dd and vise versa i would say things that my ds had done as a toddler and obviously friend seen reguarly what dd got up to, thing is i never make out i have perfect children as i dont (infact i could throttle my ds at the moment who is nearly 7, just answering back stage)but when on the phone she swore about my kids, saying i must keep them in a jail to be oh so perfect with lots of swear words inbetween, when i told dp what abuse she said, he said i hope thats the end of that friend, deep down i know he is right

sorry i do ramble on don't i , i have to tell the full story and not just parts of it

No excuse for swearing either.
I reckon she's on the defensive becaus deep down she knows it's true.
I guarantee she feels worse than yuo on this one!

sorry forgot to say the wine has gone to my head, dp offered to go and get it at teatime too, as he obviously thought i needed it! I really want to thank you all for all the supporting messages, had a bit of a crap week and then i had this today, but things are looking up again

thats the thing moondog, deep down i hope she realises but i honestly hope she isn't feeling crap, because all the feelings i have had today has been horrible so i wouldn't like to think she has been the same