Do I need to worry about her behaviour?

[galaxy]

I have an intelligent, funny and beautiful 3/5 year old dd. She has been at a new nursery since January and with her new childminder for 3 weeks.

Yesterday, the c/m told dh that dd had been really mean to her 18 month old ds, snatching things from him and excluding him from her games. Today, she tells us that the nursery collared her when she picked up dd and said she had been in trouble for throwing sand all over a little girl and then when told to apologise, she threw 2 more handfuls at the girl. She was also mean to c/m'sds again.

dh spoke to dd as I did when we got home and she knows that her behaviour was wrong. When I said how was her day she said "not good. I was in trouble at nursery coz I threw sand at someone coz they said they didn't like me and went Mrs X told me to apologise, I threw more sand".

dh was going in to speak to the school tomorrow about the state of her clothes...her brand new £33 summer uniform dress is covered in paint. Now he feels he has to go in in cap in hand to apologise for her behaviour.

This is so unlike her. She is strong-willed but not mean. She can be precocious but not rude.

I was so upset that I ended up telling the lady on the train about it on the way home from work after dh left me a message and she told me that the nursery were over-reacting and shouldn't have made a fuss butI'd be pissed off if someone chucked sand all over dd.

The nursery may just have reported it. The CM sounds a bit like she's over-reacting. DS2 snatches things off ds3 all the time (he's 4) (ds3 snatches them off ds1 and ds2). Has the CM been cminding long?

sorry I meant the nursery may just have reported it (incident book would possibly have to be signed), but not made much of it.

She's been a nanny for 10 years and a minder for the last 2. Has an 8 year old dd as well as her ds and looks after a 4 year old. I've gone a bit paranoid that she'll say she doesn't want to look after dd - we're on a month's "trial" so to speak.

Makes me feel really guilty that she got the flack from nursery though.

How long are the days she;s doing? DS2 gets impossible towards the end of busy days.

I agree the cm may have made it out to be worse than it really is. A nursery are doing a great job by informing you of every going on - i think its important to hear the good and the bad about your child's day!
I doubt they intended for you to bring it up with your child or discipline her in anyway, they were just bringing it to your attention. Its too far in the past to discuss it with her in the evening imo.
No you shouldn't be worried, except of course manage her behaviour when you are with her to try and prevent it, and rely on the nursery to do the same on your behalf.
But throwing a bit of sand is not shocking behaviour for a three year old. I have a 3yr old dd and i've seen her do worse .

When ds started nursery (aged 3.5) he also became quite aggressive (I started a thread about it). His personality seemed totally transformed - he was rude and angry the whole time, but then gradually reverted back to normal.

But since your dd has been at nursery since Jan it doesn't sound like the same thing. Have there been any other major changes in her life recently? It sounds to me like a phase that she will hopefully pass through, her behaviour while obviously unacceptable doesn't seem all that extreme, to some extent it sounds like just childhood boisterousness.

Most kids (I've seen this with ds1) sometimes snatch and are mean to other children. I would agree with the woman on the train, cm and nursery have both over-reacted and in any case they should have their own methods of discipline to deal with this.

Is she used to being away from you for the length of time she is now? Coupld this be her way of trying to get your attention if she feels a bit pushed away by having to go to the chil minder and nursery. If so she should settle with a bit of reassurance.

galaxy, I think everyone involved should give your daughter a bit of slack! She has a new nursery and a very new childminder - that's a hell of a lot to cope with at 3.5.

Also with two different forms of 'childcare' I think the difficulty for her is that all this completely normal behaviour is looked upon as 'incidents' to be 'reported on'. If she were at home I'm sure you'd deal with it, then end of story!

Maybe she is tired, finding the changes alot to deal with, or maybe she is just boundary testing in a completely normal 3 yr old way.

I would take it all with a pinch of salt and hopefully your childminder will as well.

Galaxy, please don't think of it as cm getting 'flack' about it. Its not that at all, shes simply being informed about your dd's day the same as anyone who was collecting her would be.

If the CM comments on her being mean to her child again - i would turn the tables and say how are you dealing with that sort of behaviour?

Because at the end of the day when your dd is in someone else's care you are putting them in charge of managing the behaviour.
There is very little you can do, except deal with it appropriately when dd is with you and if such behaviour occurs.

D'you think you are worrying unnecessarily? Is the cm just informing you rather than thinking you should be doing something about it?

agree with sparklemagic.

Would also like to add that Galaxy's dd is an extremely clever and gorgeous little person :)
I'm sure this will blow over Galaxy, new things, she is flexing her importance and testing boundaries.
Your DD is attuned so she'll figure it out with consistent messages.
good luck I know how worrying it is

Thanks for your messages of support but I'm feeling more peeved today!

dh was taking dd to nursery this morning and she said "daddy, I'm going to say sorry to Mx when I get in to nursery but I was only copying Fx. She had thrown sand over him and made him cry after he told her he hated her and then he told me he hated me so I threw sand as well".

When dh got to nursery dd went straight to the little boy and said "Excuse me Mx" She said this twice and he didn't answer so she said "I just wanted to say sorry about yesterday" to which he told her he didn't care and that he hated her!

dh then went to the teacher to talk about what had happened and she agreed with dd's story to which dh responded that that whilst what she did was not good, it was certainly not as reported to the c/m and it seems she was copying the other little girl. She just kept saying "it's not acceptable behaviour you know"!! dh then mentioned the state of her uniform which is covered in paint, glue or ground in sand every day and just asked whether they could make sure she wore a painting apron as the £33 dress she wore for the 1st time on Monday was ruined. Apparently, she took umbridge and busied herself in something else leaving dh standing there. Glad it was dh who dealt with it and not me as at that point I think I'd have been rather rude!

Also, dd told dh that the incident at the c/m's was not as reported either. The ds had just woken up grizzly and dd went over to him to try and calm him down when he tried to grab the bricks she was playing with and she clung on for dear life.

Feel really guilty that we punished dd last night by withdrawing bedtime tv now - seems she hadn't been as naughty as we were told!

galaxy I would feel bad too, sounds like dd was really blamed needlessly. Make a fuss of her and give her a treat today, poor thing.

Oh i am sorry to hear all of this galaxy! Sounds like its all crossed wires doesn't it.

I still stand by my point that - you leave them responsible for child - that includes managing behaviour. If they are making you feel like you should do something i would ask for a meeting to sit down and plan together an action plan on 'managing' dd's behaviour. (at least i'd do so if any more incidents occur).

This way you can throw the ball in their court, if they do expect you to punish her then i wouldn't because something that happened that morning needs to be dealt with immediately then forgotten, your dd won't understand if you try and punish later in the day.

Lastly i can imagine how gutted you feel about the clothes, but most nurseries won't hold responsibility for ruined clothes as they normally ask that children don't wear their 'best' to nursery. I just dress dd in leggings and old tops so she can get as messy as she likes without worrying.

Your dd sounds like a lovely child, and hopefully the sand was a one off - so now things can return to normal.

We have no chooice but to put her in her expensive clothes thats my point. They have a full uniform...not just a cardy or sweatshirt. The summer drsses are £33 each and you can only get them from their recommended uniform supplier - that's why I'm so pissed off that a 1-day old dress has been ruined. But not as fed up about the fact that dd has been wronged in all of this (allegedly)

Sorry Galaxy i didn't realise it was a uniform!! For a nursery?? I don't know what to say to that then! I suppose the idea of a uniform is so they don't ruin their own clothes, but £33 is a bit shocking isn't it!

Private school mentality I guess - it's attached to a prep school that I was hoping to be able to afford to send her to when she starts school in Sept 2007..not so sure I want to now.

Try not to worry too much about the uniform - I certainly wouldn't go out and buy another one. Just wash the dress out and do what you can to get the stuff off and let her carry on wearing it - if anyone comments on it just say she ruined it here with paint and you're not about to fork out for another one so she can do the same again. Perhaps they'll then get the message about making sure the kids wear aprons etc (dad's old shirts always worked well when I was at school cos they covered most of us up)!

With regards to nursery / cm's reporting of 'incidents', I'd take them with a pinch of salt and maybe discuss them with dd if she mentions them herself so you can underline that she should have behaved differently but not go too heavy handed with punishments etc. Like the others have said, that's best dealt with at the time the poor behaviour took place.

One of the difficulties here of course is that you are getting 'chinese whispers'; the childminder reporting to you on what the school reported to her.

Basically, if there were any real concerns, other than minor day to day issues, the school would be phoning you. So I think you can ignore any 'reports' from the childminder really...

The dress is ridiculously expensive and I wouldn't personally consider it ruined with a bit of paint on......stick her in it and don't think about it! If the SCHOOL have an issue with it then they should put her in an apron.....

I don't know if it's worth saying as every situation is so different but my DS did a term at a private Nursery and I was considering the local prep school route....but I moved him after just one term as they were so 'down' on any normal, toddlerish behaviour that it troubled me. My DS is opinionated and ebullient (not boisterous, just alot to say) and I strongly felt that he didn't fit the mould. They wanted easy, biddable children. I just wanted him somewhere he could experience playing with others, and have his own personal qualities accepted and valued.

So I just wanted to say keep an eye on them if they continue to make mountains out of molehills, private does not necessarily equal best!

Nikki - your 2nd paragraph was interesting and I did start to feel that they were making a big deal of a trivial incident.

I pickedd dd up from the c/m today and she said that she'd been lovely. It seems that her ds is struggling to get used to dd and starts crying which she says may be jealousy.

She then went onto say that when she picked her up, she asked the teacher if dd had been better behaved today (which pissed me off tbh) and the teacher said "YOu have to be firm with her you know". Like my dd is some sort of hooligan Also made me wonder if there was some stirring going in with the c/m.

dh and I have decided that we are going to watch how things go over the next few weeks particularly with the c/m. dd seems happy there and we were glad that she settled so well as she'd been with my sister for 3 years before this move.

I meant to say "sparkle your 4th paragraph was interesting - not that your post wasn't Nikki!!

galaxy, good luck and hope things settle down for you all

Just wanted to say, if it does come to moving her from either nursery or CM, don't hesitate - I worried endlessly about moving my DS from the nursery, but he settled immediately, no problems, and because he is more valued and nurtured now, he loves going.

The downside is that we moved her from her previous nursery that she attended for 2 days a week before the Christmas break because the hours of opening were awkward. She loves this nursery although she said that she didn't like one of the teachers who is apprently always telling her not to do this and that. Only came out tonight on the way home in the car and interestingly is the one who made the comment about being firm with her to the c/m/ Thinking about it, she is the teacher that owns the dog that visits the class once a week and that I raised questions about why a dog was allowed to roam free...wonder if she's taken umbridge at that and is "picking on" dd....paranoia now me thinks!

sparkle, does your ds attend a different nursery now?

yes, he attends a local pre-school, which is on the same site as my catchment infant school. He's been offered a place there for Sept, and will go there with all his peers from pre-school, so it's a good start; and we've dropped all thoughts of prep school! I'm judging on very little experience, I know, but I really felt that the private place was all about moulding him and producing a 'product' that would fit in. The teacher once got really irate with me saying "Your DS doesn't DO anything!" which was a real warning to me; as I've said he's a real character, so obviously his confidence was being undermined; and her irate-ness about this matter seemed out of all proportion.

He has much more freedom at the local pre-school, can do or not do activites as the mood takes him, and they have a warmth and nurturing manner towards him.

Sorry to bang on. But I'm a convert to state education if it means he can be himself and be valued for it! Of course, really I know this must be the case in many private schools, it's just in this particular area, the state provision is suiting us.

Saving us a bit of money too!