Dd cannot wipe bottom and regularly has poo in knickers

[Honesttodog]

What to do? and how can I stop myself from getting irritated with this? EVERY SINGLE TIME I tell her she has to go to the loo when she needs a poo, she has to ask for help with wiping.

Tonight, while I was settling ds, she:

wiped her ass with a towel. A proper big cream coloured towel that we'd just used in after bath.
Had poo on her hands
Had left a tiny bit of poo on the carpet in her room
had poo on her knickers
had poo on the pillow case - tiny bit, i guess she had seen her hands were dirty and thought it was fine to wipe them on any fabric handy
had poo on the mattress sheet - tiny bit, see above
left a pooey tissue on the floor of the loo

I cleaned her up, changed sheets, took away dirty clothes, picked up tissues etc.

I was furious and disgusted. I tried not to show it but she knew. It's just fucking gross! Why does she not see that this is totally inappropriate? This, from a child who doesn't like getting syrup on her fingers when she has pancakes!!!! Seriously!

Am planning to call doc to refer her to incontinence clinic or whatever it is called but I honestly do not know how to stop her beginning to poo in her knickers (she does this quite often) or how not to get irritated about it. I have told her it's disgusting and it makes me feel sick but she does not seem to try to stop or avoid it.

Which parent succeeds in smiling and saying never mind dear? Do you not feel utterly revolted having to deal iwth this sort of thing?

So fed up. Sorry for rant, am very tired and really wishing I did not have children tonight.

And no, I have no sodding partner to help me out with this, because he's never at home to help.

She's little - I was wiping both my children at this age. It will be easier and less stressful to do it for her - and as a poster above says this will help reinforce good wiping habits. I would also cut back on fruit if her poo is very liquid - sounds as if it is.

You sound as if you need some help. It is really tough being a parent and we all falter at times. Your anger seems intense and must be hard for your little girl to cope with, so it would be good to think about how you can address your stress.

Firstly, get this is in perspective, many of us on the sn board have kids that treat poo like play do and even eat their own on occasion.
To help with things like reaching around you can play the peg game: just clip a peg on her back/thigh and she has to get it off.
I assume she has moist toilet tissue? If not the andrex adult stuff is far better than kandoos.
A visual timetable of all the different steps of toileting can help.
A reward chart might help.
Console yourself with the fact that she won't still be doing this when she's 15.

4 is too young to expect them to wipe bottoms properly - they might be able to but it's equally likely they'll need help. Re towels, she'll only have been thinking about getting the poo off her hands, not about where is appropriate.

If it is just wiping and this bad attempt to clean up you really need to chill out about it and be more understanding as she's still small and you could really give her a complex about it which will ale things worse.

However, you sound like you're at the end of your tether and I suspect there is much more to it than this one incident. My very nearly 5yo has just started under care of continence clinic - wiping is the least of our worries given he still frequently ends up with poo in his pants :( and there's nothing that seems to be working. He can control it fine at school or for friends/grandparents but is happy to poo in his pants when I'm around. Going through this is soul destroying for child and parents, and I have lost my rag more times than I should. Which doesn't help :(

If this is more like your problem, you need professional help. No amount of sticker charts will help a 4 year old who is still pooing in pants. Go to your GP and ask for a referral. PM me if you want to talk it through more. I have had poo everywhere and anywhere in my house. What you say won't shock me :) :(

Just out of interest as my DD is 2.5. Many posters say that 4 is too young for solo wiping...how do children who start school age 4 cope? Genuinely interested. Do teachers help?

It's because she's 4!

Sorry op, just re read, and your partners atcwork a lot. That must be so hard, you sound very tired.
Sorry I have no better advice, I hope the wiping improves.

I genuinely don't find it disgusting. Any other poo, yes. Not theirs. I think she is too young to he reliable in this, and as someone said you need to be careful not to transfer 'disgust' of things like this into her. It may make her susceptible to anxiety.
Supervising is the way forward...

Please please don't tell her it's disgusting , it will just make her feel ashamed. She is only 4. All this seems quite normal for a4 year old. I still have to help dd who's 6 sometimes.

no constipation, she poos very regularly and with no particular difficulty. i think she is lazy/gets involved in play or telly and doesn't want to stop to go for a poo or else is distracted and only just stops herself in time.

Honestly, this really isn't that uncommon. Both my dc needed help wiping until they were 5ish (checking that they were clean after that had tried) and I vividly remember another parent at the reception induction morning apologising to the teacher that their dd couldn't manage all by herself.

I heartily recommend those damp toilet roll sheets, much easier for smalls to use.

She is 4. She isn't lazy. That is a really harsh comment.

shes only little.

evertonmint tks for yr kind words. yes there is more to it, hence needing to call clinic. I do wonder if she is lacking a bit of sphincter control or something as her poos are solid, just soft.

Orangeandlemons I know that she knows when I'm annoyed about this whether I say anything or not. It is frustrating to have to change and wash extra clothing all the time and I worry about having missed something and baby getting poo on them etc. It's unclean for her too, I had to scrub her nails with an old toothbrush in order to get them clean. That is unpleasant.

However, I do acknowledge that I need to have a conversation with her about getting help with wiping and if she gets into a situation, that she can call me. If I'd known she was wandering around trying to sort out her bum during baby's bedtime I'd have just put him down and come to her. Difficult as she'd said she didn't need a poo 20 min earlier and she knows she is supposed to be quiet when baby is going down.

I normally wipe her bum with wipes and tissue. she couldn't reach the wipes tonight, so decided to take matters into her own hands -sigh-

this all happened in her bedroom I think she only went to the loo for a bit of tissue. So we also need to chat, AGAIN, about appropriate place for dealing with poo etc.

Will think more about it when calmer tmw. Am also having a severe bout of PMS which makes it hard to think positively and that's putting it politely

This sounds so like my son. If I have ever lost my temper over the gazillionth poo in pants, he will then try to hide the next few from me or manage it himself causing havoc as your DD did. I suspect she didn't want to upset you with another accident do tried to be a big girl and go it herself.

This is more than just a wiping issue, and I understand the levels if frustration and upset you have. If you've not experienced this with a child it's very very hard to understand how it makes you and them feel. It's not just about being 4 and not being capable - it's much more than that.

You will have to work really hard to control yourself and remain completely neutral about it. Words like disgusting or lazy do not help. Been there, done it, know how futile, and indeed damaging it is. I try to see it as DS's problem rather than mine, project it in to him, so that I can a the calm, neutral helper rather than part of the problem myself. It us helping us both.

Go to your GP or HV. Get that referral. Even though it may seem like laziness, most times there is a physical cause. DS likely to be going on laxatives long term at our next appt on Friday to help regularise and override his holding it in. Even though he poos daily and they are normal, he is trying to fight his body to hold it for a tome that suits him and then when he relaxes again it comes out before he can do anything.

I really empathise. I'm walking this path at the same time as you. You can't do this on your own. Go and get help.

She's only four, yes, it isn't pleasant and to be honest my four year old knows just to use toilet paper and to call me when she's not at nursery, but your attitude is awful. Really awful.

I don't always know that I will want to poo with 20 min notice, so I am not sure that you can expect her to know at 4. I think you need to let her know that it is ok to interrupt the baby's bedtime for this.

it is horrible dealing with poo everywhere, and frustrating, but tbh, she is responding to your anger, and probably doesn't want to call you because she knows you are going to be cross.

She is still learning. There are lots of threads about kids having accidents in school in reception etc. Some kids get it all earlier and some later and some are better at dealing with it.

dd1 wet her knickers pretty much every day until she was about 6. (often just came home a bit soggy) She is totally normal, just doesn't seem to have much notice of going for a wee, and could not understand that she needed to go sooner, not wait until the last minute, and then have an accident.

dd2 is now 5. She is nov birthday and at 4 + in pre-school last year, she would often come home with dirty knickers. She had done a poo, was too 'grown -up' to ask for help, and didn't clean herself properly. Now she can do it, but never washes her hands, and i have to talk to her again and again about spreading dirt/germs etc, she is just beginning to get it. She self potty trained at 18 months and is very independent.

step back and relax. get some wet wipes, they are much easier to get clean with. Talk again about poo only in the loo, and how to clean up. And be prepared for it to go on for a while longer.

So she's tried her best to deal with it rather than come and get you while you're settling DS because she knows she has to be quiet at bedtime? Perhaps she thought she was being good and doing what you wanted her to do by not disrupting bedtime.

I've got a nearly 3yo. She pooed herself tonight when I put DS to bed. She attempted to wash her hands herself (no wiping) and had taken her trousers off. I wasn't pissed off. I felt that she'd not come to get me to help, but that she'd struggled on alone. I can't imagine I'd feel any different in a year or two.

Well clearly i've got issues and need help. Thanks all.

Honesttodog how are you today?
Hope a nights sleep has put some perspective on it.

FWIW, you just sound tired and as if you have a lot on, and yes, you do need help, get your partner to pull their weight.

We,ve all felt overwhelmed, by what in hindsight, can be pretty minor annoyances, when it comes to our kids. Don,t be so hard on yourself! or dd.

Honesttodog, don't feel got at. I know how wretched an experience it is when you have to deal with poo in the wrong places time after time after time. I think most people were just trying to reassure you that poo accidents aren't that uncommon in 4 year-olds, and perhaps not appreciating that you feel it has gone beyond the usual kind of issues. And parenting is such hard work, and when you feel all alone with it, and you've got PMS, these kind of things can make you feel really fed up with the whole thing. When you're calm, explain again to your daughter about always dealing with poo in the bathroom and always calling you if she needs help. Reassure her that it's OK to interrupt baby's bedtime if it is a poo problem! If you think it genuinely is just the case that she is too reluctant to stop playing to get to the toilet on time, maybe try offering a small reward at weekends if there have been no poo accidents all week? If she still has problems, then consider going to the GP in case there is a physical cause. My son at 6 is still having these problems and I am slowly coming to conclusion that he really may have a physical/sensory problem - which is going to be looked at. So I think the thing is to be as calm as possible, explain again, offer an incentive and put everything in your favour for your daughter to get it right, and then if she still can't to take steps.

Oh, you poor family.

My DD is 4. She is fiercely into being independent, she is not lazy and she is NT. But she can't wipe her own bottom properly. She knows that I prefer her to ask me to come and help, which she does, but when I've been unable she's tried herself, and bless her, she just can't do it. I've shown her but she can't work out how to reach that far behind her.

Please don't call your DD lazy, or unmotivated. Please don't tell her that her attempts at doing it herself are disgusting and messy and wrong. Honestly. Four is really little, she is doing her best. I'm so sad for her, she's trying her best not to make mummy angry and whatever she does is wrong.

I posted above saying I don't feel disgusted at my DSs's poo. Well, poo karma bit me on the arse this morn.
DS2 has been given antibiotics, and they gave him the squits. As I was about to leave for school he pooed- it went down his trousers and in his socks, up his back and in his hair. He then trailed it around the house before I noticed. When changing him he put his pooey feet on my legs, leaving two large smears all the way down each one. He kept putting his hands in it and squidging it.
I had to change us both, bath him and clean his room. Needless to say I was late for school!
Hope you are having a better day and evil PMS is gone xx

Your Dd may well be inpacted - it is possible without you being aware that she is constipated. My DS was the same and there have been numerous other threads on here with similar stories. My DS still passed normals stools so we were totally unaware that he was constipated however the ongoing impaction meant he had little control of his bowels. Sorry if this is too much gross information but if she has crumbly/flaky bits of poo around her bottom that is a good indicator but even so just soiling in her pants suggests there is some withholding. Without help the situation will just deteriorate and can cause long term damage so it needs addressing.

My DD is 4.7 and although she doesnt poo in her pants she generally doesn't wipe properly so there are marks. I tell her to tell me when she poos and I wipe her bottom and again show her how to do it, its taking time to click that she needs to be thorough.

You should stop being revolted as this will make it worse and although the towel is yucky she obviously didnt compute what she was doing. I personally wouldn't find a tiny bit of poo on the pillowcase etc revolting. If it was tiny then I would probably clean it with a wet wipe and get over it.

Children are not born with respect for hygeine, they need to be thought it and even at that they can be a bit slack. However poo, wee and sick go with the territory so I tend to find it amusing rather than upsetting.

By the way my DD is still not night trained. It bothers me for her but not at all for me - why would it?